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Post by jacobamerritt on Dec 9, 2019 12:59:08 GMT -6
Anyone using the Soyuz Bomblet? Lots of reviews out there, but I value the RGO community's opinion a good deal : )
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Post by hadaja on May 2, 2020 18:57:27 GMT -6
Did you end up buying this?
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Post by chessparov on May 2, 2020 20:41:41 GMT -6
Well when I win the Lottery... It's on my $50K Shopping Spree!  Chris |
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Post by plinker on May 2, 2020 22:57:40 GMT -6
Those Soyuz mics confuse me. That particular mic is a solid state, large diaphragm. Why 18db of noise?
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Post by hadaja on May 2, 2020 23:51:56 GMT -6
Not sure but the FET SU-013 also has 16db of noise. Neumann U47Fet has 18db.
So it does not seem so bad.
This is a great article on Self Noise.
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Post by plinker on May 3, 2020 11:13:05 GMT -6
Not sure but the FET SU-013 also has 16db of noise. Neumann U47Fet has 18db.
So it does not seem so bad.
This is a great article on Self Noise.
Thanks. That is a good article.
The U47Fet is an old design, so higher noise can be expected. Newer mics can easily amplify at <= 10db. I'm just confused why Soyuz isn't going low.
I'm into high fidelity and 18db ain't gonna cut it for an LDC -- solid state or tube.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 3, 2020 11:23:20 GMT -6
Not sure but the FET SU-013 also has 16db of noise. Neumann U47Fet has 18db.
So it does not seem so bad.
This is a great article on Self Noise.
Thanks. That is a good article.
The U47Fet is an old design, so higher noise can be expected. Newer mics can easily amplify at <= 10db. I'm just confused why Soyuz isn't going low.
I'm into high fidelity and 18db ain't gonna cut it for an LDC -- solid state or tube.
i have a pair of the 013 FETs and a 019, and haven’t found the noise to be a problem. As always, YMMV, of course. |
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Post by plinker on May 3, 2020 19:46:50 GMT -6
Thanks. That is a good article.
The U47Fet is an old design, so higher noise can be expected. Newer mics can easily amplify at <= 10db. I'm just confused why Soyuz isn't going low.
I'm into high fidelity and 18db ain't gonna cut it for an LDC -- solid state or tube.
i have a pair of the 013 FETs and a 019, and haven’t found the noise to be a problem. As always, YMMV, of course. We seem to have similar tastes. Perhaps, the noise isn't as bad as it seems on paper(html)? |
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Post by johneppstein on May 3, 2020 20:07:46 GMT -6
Not sure but the FET SU-013 also has 16db of noise. Neumann U47Fet has 18db.
So it does not seem so bad.
This is a great article on Self Noise.
Thanks. That is a good article.
The U47Fet is an old design, so higher noise can be expected. Newer mics can easily amplify at <= 10db. I'm just confused why Soyuz isn't going low.
I'm into high fidelity and 18db ain't gonna cut it for an LDC -- solid state or tube.
Er, no, i don't agree. One of the pernicious things about the "digital revolution*" is that a lot of people who aren't old enough to know better have absurd expectations for residual noise.
I would MUCH rather have a mic that sounds amazing and has a few dB of residual noise than a mic that has a ridiculously low published noise spec but sounds blah - or even worse, has a "modern" hyped sound baked in.
I've never heard of anyone complaining about the quality of a U47.
Note the emphasis on "published" BTW - I've seen plently of products that give published noise specs that are impossible. Even the universe itself has an inescapable amount of residual noise. The only way to avoid it is to maintain a temperate of absolute zero - which is not possible in a living universe.
The notion that "modern" gear is capable of better noise performance that the gear of 50 years ago is more or less hogwash. The absolute noise floor is set by the ambient temperature and the resistance of the circuit. This does not change with technology. Noise is produced by thermal energy causing the atoms of matter to move, which produces electrical noise. Assuming the range we call "room temperature" there must always be a certain minimum amount of noise.
* - which is not to say that exaggerating or outright lying about noise specs didn't exist prior to the popularity of digital. I remember reading discussions of unrealistic noise ratings on analog gear in the old R-EP magazine back in the late '70s/early '80s. But the digital age has raised that foolishness to an unprecedented level. Some digital gear has theoretical noise performance that is simply impossible in the real world. It's possible to do things with math and theory that simply don't exist outside of the imagination.
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 3, 2020 21:32:29 GMT -6
I remember as an up and coming engineer reading the self noise level of a Rode Nt1a and thinking... “wow that’s impressive, I’m gonna get one of those”
Worst mic I’ve ever plugged in. Man I’ve never been so disappointed.
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Post by hadaja on May 3, 2020 21:38:07 GMT -6
Dont worry guys i took the plunge , have ordered one. I will report back once it arrives.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 3, 2020 22:35:00 GMT -6
i have a pair of the 013 FETs and a 019, and haven’t found the noise to be a problem. As always, YMMV, of course. We seem to have similar tastes. Perhaps, the noise isn't as bad as it seems on paper(html)? Maybe, but hey, I haven’t needed to record anything in the last couple years in a truly, truly quiet situation. So their self noise really might be too much for your purposes. No way to know without having them in front of you. If I remember correctly, Johnkenn has mentioned noticing noise before with his 013 FETs, but again, it hasn’t been a problem for me. The main adjective I would use to describe them is “rich.” There’s a richness to the sound. They kind of sound like a viola to me. (And I mean that in a good way...) |
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Post by the other mark williams on May 3, 2020 22:41:27 GMT -6
Dont worry guys i took the plunge , have ordered one. I will report back once it arrives. i look forward to hearing your thoughts. I’ve been curious about the 023 for awhile, but never heard one. |
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Post by hadaja on May 3, 2020 23:49:24 GMT -6
Well my thoughts are could they be like 47fet? As i have really enjoyed using one of those that i borrowed. Hoping the UT47fet gets me there. But the soyuz has the lomo type capsule but upon reading further it seems more like a ck12 style capsule in . I love 251 and c12’s. And i love using cardioid pattern so it seems like a win win either way. The noise floor of my 013 is fine for me so i havent to lose except some $$$. If i dont like it i will sell it or the UT 47fet. Its nice and relaxing to play and listen to mics.
I swear one day i am going to do release a mic of my own.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 4, 2020 20:36:28 GMT -6
I have the Soyuz 0-19 FET, and have used the 0-17 (tube) and the 0-11 (Tube) and 0-13 FET, and there wasn't any noticeable noise. It's no different than the Neumann, Chandler, Blackspade or Bock mics I used on may last album in that respect.
If anything it has more gain which is a good thing usually.
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Post by jacobamerritt on May 4, 2020 23:48:14 GMT -6
Did you end up buying this? I didn't, but I did get a pair of Vanguard V4 microphones instead. Love 'em |
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Post by hadaja on May 12, 2020 1:40:45 GMT -6
Well it arrived will have to wait for the weekend before I can test it out. Surprising that we are flat out at the moment during this crazy time. I am thankful though.  023 by BEANAT19, on Flickr  023.1 by BEANAT19, on Flickr |
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Post by the other mark williams on May 12, 2020 9:48:42 GMT -6
Looks gorgeous!
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Post by plinker on May 12, 2020 11:52:32 GMT -6
Looks noisy!
👅
It does look nice, though. I like shiny silver/chrome.
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Post by Ward on May 12, 2020 14:04:21 GMT -6
Snippets, but since you're all following, this shouldn't be an issue. The U47Fet is an old design, so higher noise can be expected. Newer mics can easily amplify at <= 10db. I'm just confused why Soyuz isn't going low.
I'm into high fidelity and 18db ain't gonna cut it for an LDC -- solid state or tube.
(kindly voice, not a dick voice even though it reads like that) Fidelity is sound, not noise floor. A lot of times this is inaudible. You really can't hear noise from a U47 FET! Unless you're under 5 years old and your ears still respond to a dynamic range of more than 100db and go past 20khz. think about it. We rely way too much of specs some times without looking at the practical. i have a pair of the 013 FETs and a 019, and haven’t found the noise to be a problem. As always, YMMV, of course. Musical noise. m-u-s-i-c-a-l. The noise doesn't always present itself as hiss. Sometimes it's the resonance in the microphone which every U47 and variant has in spades, and it part of the sound! Same must be true of Soyuz mics, cause I've listened to a few and the noise isn't a detraction. They're pretty damned tasty! We seem to have similar tastes. Perhaps, the noise isn't as bad as it seems on paper(html)? Indeed it isn't, as per above. Sometimes even a noisy mic when put in a mix is just the perfect sound and makes it sound human. The notion that "modern" gear is capable of better noise performance that the gear of 50 years ago is more or less hogwash.
But the digital age has raised that foolishness to an unprecedented level. Some digital gear has theoretical noise performance that is simply impossible in the real world.
100% agree with this! |
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Post by plinker on May 12, 2020 15:40:00 GMT -6
Ward et al. (avoiding quoting all the snippets):
Fidelity, by definition, is about faithfulness to the source. Adding noise is not being faithful to the source. Noise has ramifications for my work/interests that might not matter to most -- but it matters to me. Noise has a direct affect on the spatial depth/soundstage of the resulting mix -- that's important to me. I also 'generally' don't close-mic acoustic instruments so am unable to take advantage of S/N -- again, noise is an issue for me.
Yes -- I have a couple of mics that are noisy, that I love the sound of, regardless. However, I don't employ them in many applications because of it. My UM17 with HK47 capsule? Yep, noisy, but for vocals it sounds great and, because I'm close-micing the vox, I get the S/N advantage.
While John may believe that "The notion that "modern" gear is capable of better noise performance that the gear of 50 years ago is more or less hogwash" I'd caution at the distinction between "capable of better noise performance" and "designed for better noise performance". Plenty of old designs didn't factor heavily on noise because the noise bottleneck was somewhere else in the chain (e.g., low-fidelity playback systems.) The digital age hasn't "raised [that] foolishness to an unprecedented level" -- rather, it changed where the noise/performance bottleneck appears.
Now, that being said, YOU KIDS, GET OFF MY LAWN!!! :-}
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Post by the other mark williams on May 12, 2020 16:39:40 GMT -6
Snippets, but since you're all following, this shouldn't be an issue. The U47Fet is an old design, so higher noise can be expected. Newer mics can easily amplify at <= 10db. I'm just confused why Soyuz isn't going low.
I'm into high fidelity and 18db ain't gonna cut it for an LDC -- solid state or tube.
(kindly voice, not a dick voice even though it reads like that) Fidelity is sound, not noise floor. A lot of times this is inaudible. You really can't hear noise from a U47 FET! Unless you're under 5 years old and your ears still respond to a dynamic range of more than 100db and go past 20khz. think about it. We rely way too much of specs some times without looking at the practical. i have a pair of the 013 FETs and a 019, and haven’t found the noise to be a problem. As always, YMMV, of course. Musical noise. m-u-s-i-c-a-l. The noise doesn't always present itself as hiss. Sometimes it's the resonance in the microphone which every U47 and variant has in spades, and it part of the sound! Same must be true of Soyuz mics, cause I've listened to a few and the noise isn't a detraction. They're pretty damned tasty! We seem to have similar tastes. Perhaps, the noise isn't as bad as it seems on paper(html)? Indeed it isn't, as per above. Sometimes even a noisy mic when put in a mix is just the perfect sound and makes it sound human. The notion that "modern" gear is capable of better noise performance that the gear of 50 years ago is more or less hogwash.
But the digital age has raised that foolishness to an unprecedented level. Some digital gear has theoretical noise performance that is simply impossible in the real world.
100% agree with this! As nice as your post above is, Ward, my biggest takeaway is "holy shit! I've never been able to figure out how to quote snippets from multiple people on RGO before! How the F did he do that?"  |
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Post by plinker on May 12, 2020 16:46:03 GMT -6
No shit!!!
I’m guessing he was dicking around with copy/paste and html tags which is a total pain in the arse!
Way to make us all look lazy, Ward!
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Post by hadaja on May 12, 2020 17:08:21 GMT -6
I found to mic to be a little noisy when i put the 20 db gadget on the mic and the pushed my cheap behringer mixer into never before territory.
But alas that noise will be from those ...insert sarcastic.... lovely quality behringer preamps.
But i tell you the character of the mic changed with the 20:db pad inserted. And i actually liked that sound. Why would a pad change the sound of the mic?
Because now it makes me think i should try this on all my mics to see how they respond to the pad engaged.
Could be a good experiment.
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Post by Ward on May 12, 2020 18:01:38 GMT -6
As nice as your post above is, Ward, my biggest takeaway is "holy shit! I've never been able to figure out how to quote snippets from multiple people on RGO before! How the F did he do that?" It's really easy!! As you're going through the thread, use the little thrill wheel icon across from the title and go down to "select post" for each post you wish to include in a multi quote post. Then when you click on reply, everything shows up! |
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