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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 11, 2014 22:10:19 GMT -6
I recently upgraded my Blackspade UM17 with the Thiersch Blueline M7 capsule. I'm not sure how I feel about it now, and might consider something else. I've been ill, and my voice was in really bad shape, so I'll keep an open mind until the next time I try it.
I've read some raves about the Mojave MA-200. Sylvia Massey uses them all the time in her productions and swears by them. Now, my benchmark vocal sound is Lyle Lovett's tone on the "Road to Ensenada", which was done on a Neumann U67.. I've read the Mojave MA-200 is a basically done in a 67 style. I don't care if chain smoking Chinese amoeba made the capsule, as long as it sounds right.
Please let me know of your experiences with it, before I jump in the wrong direction.
Thanks.
MJB
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 11, 2014 22:18:09 GMT -6
I just re-read the notes I got from Mike at Blackspade. He was a great help in making the capsule change happen. He said to "Let the mic burn-in for a few days, and when you do, turn the mic upside down. That makes sure the heat of the tube doesn't rise to the capsule, but to the bottom of the mic instead. This is a good tip for when you leave tube mics switched on for long periods of time as well."
Perhaps that's all I need to do with my new capsule to be happy.
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Post by RicFoxx on Mar 12, 2014 7:26:30 GMT -6
MJB,
I love my Mojave MA200. It's a mic that I don't have to add top to... It's just "right." I really loved the Miktek CV4 but not missing it having the Mojave. I bought mine for $695 used. It's cardoid only. It's a very hot mic and won't work well in noisy rooms. Hope this helps!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2014 9:42:09 GMT -6
That does help, thanks Ric.
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Post by kidvybes on Mar 12, 2014 10:05:00 GMT -6
He said to "Let the mic burn-in for a few days, and when you do, turn the mic upside down. That makes sure the heat of the tube doesn't rise to the capsule, but to the bottom of the mic instead. This is a good tip for when you leave tube mics switched on for long periods of time as well." Perhaps that's all I need to do with my new capsule to be happy. ...generally speaking, for any extended burn-in periods (24-72 hrs) this is good advice...but for tracking sessions, not so critical, due to the fact that the UM17 has a subminiature tube which does not generate the level of heat given off by full-sized preamplifier tubes, particularly dual-triode tubes where both elements are activated...an easy barometer for judging the heat factor is to simply hold the barrel of the mic after it's fully warmed up...mics like the UM17, Mojave MA200/300 etc, that implement subminiature pentode tubes don't tend to get very warm, whereas my Advanced Audio tube mics which employ dual-triode 6072 tubes get seriously warm, bordering on hot... ...it has also been mentioned that the heat is more of a threat to PVC diaphragms than the more modern mylar materials currently used...so, if that Thiersch capsule is the PVC variant, then you may want to follow that precaution...if it was mylar, not necessary... ...microphone guru Klaus Heyne weighs in here in reference to this issue: www.gearslutz.com/board/118779-post3.html |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2014 10:14:44 GMT -6
Thanks kidvybes, much appreciated. Yes, I do have the older style PVC, which is called Blueline by Thiersch. I knew little about it, but Oliver Archut told me , "get ze blue line", so I figured I'd listen to the mic master.
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Post by kidvybes on Mar 12, 2014 10:25:04 GMT -6
Thanks kidvybes, much appreciated. Yes, I do have the older style PVC, which is called Blueline by Thiersch. I knew little about it, but Oliver Archut told me , "get ze blue line", so I figured I'd listen to the mic master. ...no better recommendation...Oliver is both immensly knowledgeable and a gentleman...I reach out to him often for his kindly advice... ...in reference to the Mojave MA200...I owned both an MXL 2001 that was modded by Joel Cameron of Rascal Audio, exactly per David Royer's original schematic for his MA200 (http://recordinghacks.com/articles/one-tube-microphone-from-berlin/) and an early production Mojave MA200...the mod per Royer's original design produced a darker voicing (more 67-like?) than the production version issued by Mojave, which leans to a much brighter voicing...so I would suggest you demo your own voice before pulling the trigger...I kept the mod-built version, but sold my Mojave MA200 as I have other less costly tube mics that offer that family of voicing... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2014 11:11:15 GMT -6
Thanks again kidvybes. I just heard a few tracks done with the MA-200, and if I wasn't told it was the Mojave, I'd have guessed it was an AKG 414. It had the same beautiful clarity, but was much too bright for my tastes, not that the high end was brittle at all, just a thin low end, like the AKG. I would most likely look at something darker and closer to a U67.
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Post by popmann on Mar 12, 2014 11:49:52 GMT -6
S....M....7.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2014 12:02:25 GMT -6
Thanks Popmann, I've never liked the SM7 on any of the tracks I've heard, but perhaps I'll see if I can borrow one somewhere. Thinking of looking into the Lauten Atlatis..
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Post by kidvybes on Mar 12, 2014 14:51:18 GMT -6
...I've had very nice results on vocals using the Cascade Victor ribbon mic w/Lundahl upgrade ($299)...very smooth and velvety oldschool richness without any harshness or excessive brightness...if you get a chance to demo, go for it...great alternative to LDC options...and it takes EQ (particularly Pultec-type plugin) like a champ...boost a bit of "air" and it's like butter!...just a thought!... www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/702403-REG/Cascade_Microphones_100_L_Victor_Long_Ribbon_Microphone.html***just a note...the stock Victor ($169) also gets wonderful reviews, but I find for vocals in particular, the Lundahl upgrade adds extension on both the top and bottom response, yet still remains smooth and void of harshness even on strident voices...and the Lundahl modded version is also wonderful on acoustic guitar, bass, cello, violin, sax, etc...exceptional value, price considered... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2014 15:14:21 GMT -6
Thanks kidvybes, I like Cascade's mics, and intend to get their Vin-Jet w/ Lundahl at some point, mainly as a change of pace for recording acoustic guitars. I've moved on from the Mojave now, as I'm sure it's not what I'm looking for. I'm researching the Lauten Atlantis next.
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Post by kidvybes on Mar 12, 2014 16:27:50 GMT -6
Thanks kidvybes, I like Cascade's mics, and intend to get their Vin-Jet w/ Lundahl at some point, mainly as a change of pace for recording acoustic guitars. I've moved on from the Mojave now, as I'm sure it's not what I'm looking for. I'm researching the Lauten Atlantis next. ...no problem...but I still recommend the Victor over the Vin-Jet, for both vocals and acoustic instruments...not sure if it's the body or grill dimension/construction differentials (most everything else is identical internally) but the Victor just sounds nicer...more round and smooth...I have both, and have compared...the Victor is exceptional... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2014 18:47:50 GMT -6
Appreciate the heads up kidvybes. I was only focused on the Vin-Jet because I'd heard a guitar track that was nice. I will look closer at the Victor now.
I just received a kind invitation from Daniel Sanint, manager at Fab Dupont's Flux Studios, here in Manhattan. I'm going to bring my Blackspade and compare it to the Lauten Atlantis this Saturday afternoon. How cool is that? Too bad Fab's out of the country, he's straight ahead with his opinions on all things audio, and is great fun too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 13, 2014 17:39:04 GMT -6
I know I sound like a @sinsay commercial...(I'm sure there are other people doing fantastic mods)...but I was over at his house and heard a modded Mojave that sounded absolutely fantastic...Enough to where I was thinking about getting one and getting him to mod.
BTW - how much are used Peluso 2247LE's going for? I would think that would be a great platform for a Mic Rehab M7...And maybe buy an Equinox body or something. I guess it would probably be cheaper to just build one yourself though.
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Post by RicFoxx on Mar 13, 2014 18:30:25 GMT -6
I know I sound like a @sinsay commercial...(I'm sure there are other people doing fantastic mods)...but I was over at his house and heard a modded Mojave that sounded absolutely fantastic...Enough to where I was thinking about getting one and getting him to mod. BTW - how much are used Peluso 2247LE's going for? I would think that would be a great platform for a Mic Rehab M7...And maybe buy an Equinox body or something. I guess it would probably be cheaper to just build one yourself though. Do you know what he did to it?? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 13, 2014 18:39:22 GMT -6
Just replaced the capsu...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 13, 2014 20:32:56 GMT -6
I'm researching the Lauten Audio Atlantis now. It's an FET, that definitely punches above it's class. I've heard some great sound clips, but I'm starting to think my Blackspade's better. I've been laid up with bronchial asthma, so my previous vocal tests were terrible. Now that I'm slowly getting better, that just suck, hopefully, my vocals will be OK soon. It's possible my mic just needed to break in too. It's starting to sound like a U47 but without the muddy bottom.
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Post by plinker on Dec 18, 2015 8:53:01 GMT -6
I just re-read the notes I got from Mike at Blackspade. He was a great help in making the capsule change happen. He said to "Let the mic burn-in for a few days, and when you do, turn the mic upside down. That makes sure the heat of the tube doesn't rise to the capsule, but to the bottom of the mic instead. This is a good tip for when you leave tube mics switched on for long periods of time as well." Perhaps that's all I need to do with my new capsule to be happy. Did this approach make your capsule sound better, MJB? I'm curious about this, because it seems counterintuitive that a capsule could "burn-in"? However, I'm open to the idea. Thanks. |
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Post by Randge on Dec 18, 2015 9:18:12 GMT -6
I am an endorser of both the Atlantis and MA-200 and love them both. However, on your voice, Martin, I would think about an MA-300, as it has Omni, Fig 8 and Cardioid, all sweeping to always get what you want it to capture. A considerably more versatile mic that should sound really great on you. You can always look into mods from Sinsay later if you want to take it a step further, but that is the best back for the buck IMO.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 18, 2015 12:02:05 GMT -6
Hey Randy, thanks for the tip. I've been curious about that mic for a while. Some top producers swear by it. I was quite compatible with the U87 I had in the 80's, but I sold that a long time ago. The MA-300 is likely similar. I'll give it some attention next time I get to B&H here in Manhattan. They have a great little mic room, with at least 30 top mics you can try, with a half dozen high end preamps.
A couple of things have developed recently, and I was able to get the newly redesigned version of the Blackspade UM-17B. I'm breaking it in right now, and will post a full report when it's ready. So far, it addresses all the issues I had with my previous version. It's a complete redesign though, and I'm still just getting started with it.
Last time I was at B&H, I listened to the new Soyuz SU-017. I had never heard of it anywhere at the time, but was curious. Oh boy, it's the first newly made mic I've heard that equals the top vintage mics while remaining distinct. It's a relative bargain at $3,500, but double my price range. I'll be getting the Soyuz SU-017 and the SU- 011 mics soon for a few weeks to try. I met the guys from the company at AES, and they're great cats who clearly love what they're doing.That should be interesting to compare to the UM-17B. The Blackspade's quite similar to an M49, kind of like 75% M49, 25% U-47.
It is great to know that when needed, Sinsay's there. He did the install of the M7 capsule on my previous mic, and went above and beyond the call of duty then.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 18, 2015 12:33:38 GMT -6
Plinker, Burn In is somewhat debatable. My experience is that if something moves, it needs breaking in, like a new, stiff speaker for example. There's a certain amount of movement in a capsule I think, you know, air pushing a diaphragm, so break-in seems logically needed.I've read somewhere that capacitors need to form, but I can't speak to that, some of the great engineers here might chime in regarding this.
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 18, 2015 12:49:12 GMT -6
I used Randy's MA-200 a while back and I thought it was incredible. Very smooth and U67ish with sparkly top end. For the $$$ there isn't anything that will beat it off the shelf.
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