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Post by mrholmes on Nov 19, 2019 14:51:17 GMT -6
Today I wanted to make a clean isntall of 10.11 on an external HD.
I always had a coppy in my applications folder, just in case I need it.
Was about to create a boot image and saw that apple changed that installer behind my back into High Sierra which I dont want to install for many many reasons... I even cant find the installer in my TM backup.
Those customer "services" piss me off.
I do not need a new OS every second week APPLE!!!!!!!!
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 19, 2019 15:19:09 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Nov 19, 2019 15:26:53 GMT -6
Apple pissed me off 15 years ago and I swore them off. Windows isn't much better with all their constant updates these days though. I usually just turn the windows update service off although I'm risking having issues like viruses and such on my gaming computer. On my recording computer I never connect to the internet so I don't have to worry about such things.
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Post by mike on Nov 19, 2019 15:46:39 GMT -6
It seems like there should be an easier way, but my previous experience is unless you downloaded and saved the .0 or very first version of an older OS, you couldn't then update to the later installments of the same OS after it of .1-.5 etc...... and while I could always find a .1 version of an older OS online to download, it wouldn't work needing to have the .0 installed first, which forced me to go to an Apple Store to have them install an older OS .0 version I could then update to the last installment of it.
I assume Apple does that on purpose always wanting users to update to the latest OS which is frustrating. I have a love/hate relationship with Apple with their premium cost and no longer able to self upgrade with parts soldered in being some of the hates,.... but my experience with Windows in days gone by trying to render video or something labor intensive was so awful, I'll never go back to PC.
Sorry to ramble, but hopefully you have an Apple Store nearby that can load the older OS on for you.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 19, 2019 17:51:40 GMT -6
Apple pissed me off 15 years ago and I swore them off. Windows isn't much better with all their constant updates these days though. I usually just turn the windows update service off although I'm risking having issues like viruses and such on my gaming computer. On my recording computer I never connect to the internet so I don't have to worry about such things. Windows LTSC has been my solution. All the bloatware is absent. No updates except every 6-8 months. A real work machine. |
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Post by christopher on Nov 19, 2019 18:46:16 GMT -6
Wow, how did I not know about LTSC? I guess because its for enterprise.. hospitals/pos etc.. but i see there’s a $7/mo subscription? Is that how you use it? Seems like a good solution for recording machines.. saw this: ”LTSB is barebones - no store / cortana / games / messaging / etc.” that would save so many headaches..
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Post by popmann on Nov 19, 2019 20:42:59 GMT -6
LTSC is not a legal option and the difference in Win10Pro with updates disabled is ALL negative. Meaning--there ARE things you can't do....and it actually DOES update. Security-not "features"...there's a problem with that. 90% of the "break shit/hurt DAW performance" updates are security related. Enabling "Dark mode" or recognizing newer nVme drives you don't have didn't jack up the DAW.  Anyway--little tech insight. if you want a fixed function machine, you buy Professional and turn off the updates. Done. LTSC is not legally licensed and represents all negative-not one dev will be testing on it, and the things it can't do it can't do. No games? The stuff you mention except Cortana has ZERO impact on DAW/real time performance. And Cortana I'm not sure does. I DID turn it off when I built on principle of seeing what the machine can do--and I feel like that's largely a mobile thing where you have a mic/speaker integrated-typing into Cortana/Siri would largely defeat the purpose. unlike Apple--I'd bet I can get you an older Win10 build with a simple search of their site if you need an older one. Microsoft doesn't try to get in the way of custom configuration. Quite the opposite. The audience demands Windows as a service. They WANT to always be updating and getting new features and being secure for their porn surfing fun. There's never been a time that you couldn't buy a Professional Windows machine and lock it down to not have web browser access...I used to configure kiosk machines for factory floors with group policy....LTSC is for companies with really expensive software/hardware implementations that need the security updates. LTSC will mean music software will be a crap shoot of compatibility soon enough. Now--Windows has always been so good at backwards compatibility, that MAY not present a real world challenge--but no one is testing with it--promise. |
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Post by Omicron9 on Nov 20, 2019 11:21:24 GMT -6
I was on Windows for over 20 years; very happy with it. However, I heard so many good things about MacOS that I wanted to try it. I had so many horror stories with Apple that I went back to Windows and never regretted it. I'll never touch anything Apple ever again.
For those of you that had Windows dislikes in the past, Windows 10 is a very different beast. I've been running it on three systems since the week it was released and never had a single crash or blue screen. Regarding the updates, everyone complains about this, but it seems few ever turn them off. You can. You're not forced to accept updates. It's called "automatic updates," but you can make it manual updates or no updates. Very easy to do.
Just trying to share another angle on this. -09 |
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 20, 2019 14:48:53 GMT -6
Wow, how did I not know about LTSC? I guess because its for enterprise.. hospitals/pos etc.. but i see there’s a $7/mo subscription? Is that how you use it? Seems like a good solution for recording machines.. saw this: ”LTSB is barebones - no store / cortana / games / messaging / etc.” that would save so many headaches.. Yes, I could get a license through the university I work for, as we can be in relation with windows and apple reps. I jumped on it, and it is great to have just a raw windows that I felt not the need to tweak much to run a DAW. I think it is possible to upgrade from an OEM license to an LTSC license, but I'm not sure.
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Post by javamad on Nov 20, 2019 18:30:12 GMT -6
I was on Windows for over 20 years; very happy with it. However, I heard so many good things about MacOS that I wanted to try it. I had so many horror stories with Apple that I went back to Windows and never regretted it. I'll never touch anything Apple ever again.
For those of you that had Windows dislikes in the past, Windows 10 is a very different beast. I've been running it on three systems since the week it was released and never had a single crash or blue screen. Regarding the updates, everyone complains about this, but it seems few ever turn them off. You can. You're not forced to accept updates. It's called "automatic updates," but you can make it manual updates or no updates. Very easy to do.
Just trying to share another angle on this. -09 As another angle ... I swore of Microsoft after it was proven they used monopolistic practices and contract blackmail for years and years. Thats why their software feels like it was made in a state monopoly :-) Bill Gates can do all the charity work he wants now that he has his ill gotten gains but they are not getting any from me. I went to Linux first but honestly got tired of the constant fiddling. Then I got a 17” Mac Book Pro. Wonderful machine. Then after 4 years I got another... wonderful machine. I still have it. In fact I am running my studio with a mid-2012 MBP ... still going strong. Nearly 7 years on.... After my Linux experiences I learned to appreciate the simplicity of MacOS and the Apple ecosystem. I have auto updates turned off of course and I always wait until x.2 to update anything. I am on High Sierra at the moment. Not looking to start any OS wars :-) I am sure everyone has had good and bad experiences with the OS, the hardware, software, installers, vendors, etc. I just wish everyone could just get on with making music and that computers would just fade into the background cos they just work :-) |
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Post by Omicron9 on Nov 21, 2019 11:16:03 GMT -6
I'm updating the age-old list of verboten conversational topics: - Politics
- Religion
- OS preference
 -09 |
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 23, 2019 5:02:50 GMT -6
I'm updating the age-old list of verboten conversational topics: - Politics
- Religion
- OS preference
-09
Wondering you use this German word "verboten" in everyday American English?
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 23, 2019 5:08:19 GMT -6
It a wise thing to take my Apple pisses me off moment not too serious.
It was one of those moments.
I won't go back to windows because this is a even bigger failure factor in my everyday work.
OSX runs stable here and I just do not have to make the mistake to upgrade to a new OS this is where trouble begins with Apple OS.
Then you can wait a whole year until they fixed their OS, and then they tell you to download the next major upgrade and the stupidity starts all over again.
No thanks Apple had this two times and it was two times a nightmare.
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Post by levon on Nov 23, 2019 10:31:35 GMT -6
Why the anger? You don't have to upgrade and follow each and every new release, you know that, don't you? Hit your mental ignore button and stay with the old system as long as it runs without a hiccup!
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Post by levon on Nov 23, 2019 10:33:21 GMT -6
I'm updating the age-old list of verboten conversational topics: - Politics
- Religion
- OS preference
-09
Wondering you use this German word "verboten" in everyday American English?
Yes, it is used in English. Of course, they use it wrongly. 
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 24, 2019 2:57:57 GMT -6
Why the anger? You don't have to upgrade and follow each and every new release, you know that, don't you? Hit your mental ignore button and stay with the old system as long as it runs without a hiccup!
That's what I do you miss the point of the topic it's hard to get a copy of an older OS. That was my major problem, which is solved by now.
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Post by levon on Nov 24, 2019 4:37:09 GMT -6
Yes, it pays to keep copies of the older OS, I have learned that too... Actually, I always make sure to have an updated backup of my HD before I upgrade the OS. If anything goes wrong, I simply return to my backup.
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Post by cyrano on Nov 24, 2019 5:24:08 GMT -6
Keeping installer copies won't help. These are released with a certificate that ends one day, as happened on Oct. 24.
Sure, you can still roll back the system date. That works on older machines, but not on the T2 ones. You risk bricking those.
Apple used to have direct links to older installers. Since the certs expired, only HS, Mojave and Catalina are still directly accessible online and easy to find. Any system before High Sierra wasn't given a new certificate, so I'm not sure what the current status is.
In the future, it will be impossible to install a system without an internet connection, I fear. Apple wants to verify the integrity of the installer and that can only be done by checking against Apple's secure servers.
Average users without any understanding of the system might conclude it's time to get a new Mac...
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 24, 2019 6:59:19 GMT -6
Keeping installer copies won't help. These are released with a certificate that ends one day, as happened on Oct. 24. Sure, you can still roll back the system date. That works on older machines, but not on the T2 ones. You risk bricking those. Apple used to have direct links to older installers. Since the certs expired, only HS, Mojave and Catalina are still directly accessible online and easy to find. Any system before High Sierra wasn't given a new certificate, so I'm not sure what the current status is. In the future, it will be impossible to install a system without an internet connection, I fear. Apple wants to verify the integrity of the installer and that can only be done by checking against Apple's secure servers. Average users without any understanding of the system might conclude it's time to get a new Mac...
Those politics make fans go away at least I won't stay If I am not free to install an older OS which just runs stable because I made it work this way for my audio stuff.
I can't risk the nightmares I had with major upgrades.
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Post by cyrano on Nov 24, 2019 19:26:58 GMT -6
I've gone back to El Capital. Held out on Snow Leopard 'till some software I needed to upgrade forced me to Mavericks. Now I'm testing Reaper on Lubuntu...
No more Mac for me, after30 years. Raspberry Pi4. Don't need specific plugins. If only RME would make TotalMix for Linux...
All that cloud stuff looks fine. Until you use it. Then it turns out to be the emperor's newest clothes.
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Post by Omicron9 on Nov 25, 2019 9:15:30 GMT -6
Wondering you use this German word "verboten" in everyday American English?
Yes, it is used in English. Of course, they use it wrongly.
New list of verboten words for online forum replies:
1. Verboten.
Carry on. -09
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Post by Ward on Nov 25, 2019 13:09:43 GMT -6
Yes, it is used in English. Of course, they use it wrongly. New list of verboten words for online forum replies: 1. Verboten. Carry on. -09
It's not 'Verböten'? |
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