|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 1, 2019 18:15:45 GMT -6
I am still worried.
I came home from a concert and was standing in the subway waiting for my train. A women about 50 years old told me that disabled people like me should be in Auschwitz or or get caught by a hit and run.
I still don't understand why some people carry selfhate in their hearts Seems to be hard to celebrate selflove?
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Oct 1, 2019 19:57:29 GMT -6
I'm sorry you had that happen. Says everything about her and nothing about you.
There are lots of reasons some people become weak and vulnerable to shitty, ghoulish ideologies. And there are lots of people ready to stoke and exploit those weaknesses.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 2, 2019 2:02:06 GMT -6
I'm sorry you had that happen. Says everything about her and nothing about you. There are lots of reasons some people become weak and vulnerable to shitty, ghoulish ideologies. And there are lots of people ready to stoke and exploit those weaknesses. Sure everytime I see people on the TV screen praying hate speech or I lock into my face (hate) book account I am schocked how many people seem to have such a low self-esteem that they eat the cake without proofing the facts. Meanwhile I am sure many people suffer from narcissistic disorder and that's why they need to look down on someone, or a group of people etc. They just feel better if they can blame others. It doesn't matter who it is. Disabled ones, LGBT, old people,whole countries or they just hate everyone who is different, not white....not smart enough...not up to their wishes, standards. I am alright with being different I don't value my life by the standards of narcissists. Absolutely right it says more about the narcicistic person. And that's the reason why they show no mercy to anyone. They are deeply worried inside their souls because they never have been loved for just being there, here on Earth.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Oct 2, 2019 4:54:19 GMT -6
What makes little sense to me is when victims are further victimized. I do understand that folks might post things that they would otherwise never say to face to face, and that anonymity exacerbates the problem, but I wonder that it's such a common thing that it's become "acceptable" behavior and has begun to transfer into RL and what recently happened with mrholmes. I hope I'm not treading on precarious ground when I say that the popularity of the politics of hate is all but feeding the problem.
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Oct 2, 2019 5:49:22 GMT -6
Some people are just nuts and/or demonic. The age we live in is the devil's playground due to "man's" desire to be a god unto themselves - deeming others to be of less value than themselves. A large portion of societies are hell-bent on ramrodding their ideals down the throats of others merely because it pleases them to incapacitate or remove those that differ. The baser animalistic sort has no self control and displays what you experienced. It's a sign of the times and will only get worse. Just know who you are and do not heed the babbling of a lunatic. Ignorance is on parade..
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 2, 2019 7:59:36 GMT -6
To me the problem is that everyone who does not share the values of hate and double morals seems to stay silent in a discussion. In the future I will clearly say stop. What you say is against the Constitution of our country. It's not the values this land is build on and in extreme cases it is against the law.
It's time to say no thank you I am not in your hate camp, I live in the camp healthy.
The true discussion is not politicis. We need to talk about deep worried people. Angst ridden mind's and a too fast changing globalized world.
Hate is not the answer to the problems we have in Western communities. There are many things that need to be fixed. We need a new, healthy deal...
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Oct 2, 2019 8:33:56 GMT -6
I didn't mention politics specifically, but modern day politics is the vehicle for this kind of hate. This is a moral deficiency problem that has permeated cultures on the back of politics and the current "religion of political correctness". If we don't fit in with the hateful totalitarian view, we must be silenced or removed. This is the way of the earth for millennia. This sickness was previously propagated by misinterpretation of religion and specifically crafted religions that combine politics and religion. It is magnified in or day and age. This Neo-fascism is what is against us all. The weakest minded ones among us become evangelists for the hate culture. This is their freedom; to deny their opposition right to thrive and exist apart from their mindset. We are in their way. It's demonic at it's core. Regular folks are tolerant enough to allow others to differ as long as it doesn't impose differing values upon us. This is what societies are built upon. Yet, the line has been drawn. Be careful who you associate with is the only advice I can give. Words will not change their kind of spiritual sickness. The cure is from The Higher Power. Reasoning with a madman has never worked. We are in precarious times, my friend. Finding peace and sanctuary apart from the ills in and of this world is the best any of us can achieve. Become a part of it is a fools' errand. The cure is here, but not everyone accepts it. I won't elaborate on this great site. A word to the wise is sufficient.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 2, 2019 8:58:21 GMT -6
What makes little sense to me is when victims are further victimized. I do understand that folks might post things that they would otherwise never say to face to face, and that anonymity exacerbates the problem, but I wonder that it's such a common thing that it's become "acceptable" behavior and has begun to transfer into RL and what recently happened with mrholmes . I hope I'm not treading on precarious ground when I say that the popularity of the politics of hate is all but feeding the problem. It has grounds in animal instinct to ostracize individuals that would cause harm to the group. In the animal world, the old, sick and deformed are typically pushed out of the herds/packs even though they are otherwise not to blame for their existence. Humans add multiple levels of ego to it by incorporating material things (analogous to plumage) and self-image, etc. It's not acceptable behavior for modern humans to do this, but it's so prevalent (regardless of the attempts to remove it from society) because it's encoded in our DNA as animals to do this. We typically know better than to do this and most people take no pleasure from denigrating those who have been unfortunate, but some folks do it because they have poor self esteem and it's easy to pick on disabled people to make themselves feel better about where they exist in society.
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Oct 2, 2019 9:48:32 GMT -6
You know, I think we live in tumultuous times. There's definitely a lot of anxiety, stress, and fear that permeates everything. But overall I think we loose site of the fact that things are really great at this point in history. You wouldn't know that from watching the news or from pop culture, because the only thing that comes from those arenas is hate and fear. Its a shame that as a society, both domestically and globally, that we don't celebrate more how far we've come. We're so busy tearing each other down for our differing world views/lifestyles/etc that we forget (or straight up don't realise) that overall things keep getting better for humanity. Women and minorities have never had more rights and protections, gay marriage, LGBTQ rights etc, free and almost unlimited access to information via the internet, violent crime being at its lowest in decades, advances in the medical field that allow us to graft spinal cords and save 24 week infants... I could go on and on...
I think the only solutions are to base your life (and decisions) on love, not hate. And to be the change you wish to see in the world (as cliche as that all sounds).
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Oct 20, 2019 10:45:05 GMT -6
I am still worried. I came home from a concert and was standing in the subway waiting for my train. A women about 50 years old told me that disabled people like me should be in Auschwitz or or get caught by a hit and run. I still don't understand why some people carry selfhate in their hearts Seems to be hard to celebrate selflove? Sorry this happened to you mrholmes. I hope you have a great week this coming week!!!
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 21, 2019 2:57:53 GMT -6
I am still worried. I came home from a concert and was standing in the subway waiting for my train. A women about 50 years old told me that disabled people like me should be in Auschwitz or or get caught by a hit and run. I still don't understand why some people carry selfhate in their hearts Seems to be hard to celebrate selflove? Sorry this happened to you mrholmes. I hope you have a great week this coming week!!! As long as we do not contradict Nazi vocabulary in our Western societies, we even accept it without complaining in everyday life, these guys will feel comfortable.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 21, 2019 10:04:25 GMT -6
Unfortunately, a lot of it was taught by people's parents as part of at least a six-century chain. It was how the rich explained away the mistreatment of others to their fellow Christians.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 22, 2019 4:42:08 GMT -6
Unfortunately, a lot of it was taught by people's parents as part of at least a six-century chain. It was how the rich explained away the mistreatment of others to their fellow Christians.
In the end of the day its racism and I can't accept that ...
Racism always wants to kill humans....my country was the killing country Nr.1 between 1933-45.
I can tell you it feels very bad to be the one who is the target.
It's not the first time, I know it since I am 5 years old. I am scared when I read the news and I see a US-President who is encouraging all the Nazis on the globe. The US freed us from the Nazis and now we rewind? It does not make any sense in my mind...
I am sick of it and I still have hope that other people are sick of it too. There are no excuses we all have to draw a line... we all have to make clear to not cross this line.
There is that no politics rule, on this board... but I have to say this....
Its stupid, its crazy and its very dangerous too.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 22, 2019 13:01:38 GMT -6
The U.S. came far closer to becoming Nazi in the 1930s than most people realize. We also came far closer to a communist revolution than most people realize. The rich considered the two ways of preventing a communist revolution to be fascism or socialism. Socialism won but there has been a movement to take it away both in Europe and the U.S. since 1945.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2019 23:49:28 GMT -6
Oh yes, beeing disabled is not fun in our society. And the new far right is an awful trend in politics, actually everywhere in Europe, and some of it's values in the US as well. It is kind of a worldwide trend that should make people worry about. Back to beeing disabled... Most people don't realize that there are much more disabled people out there, where you can not SEE their handycap. Like me, for example. And then, you can hear, what people think about others, thinking no one of them is listening. And you suddenly know ... "ok, this guy and me will never be friends..." Sometimes I just step into the discussion outing myself as one of those "invalid" people that are talked about just to see into the embarassed faces... A lot of the treatment of disabled people comes from the 70' "health dictate", the fitness movement. In the 80's, everything turned into an "achievement" based society with much less solidarity. All this now comes back with very old ideologies like a boomerang. Having incurable illnesses and disabilities is not tolerated half as much, it is discriminated against much more than people think they are. I once had a doctor saying, that it is better if people like me don't have children, regarding me beeing bipolar. Actually 100% in line with 3rd reich ideology of euthanasia... And I heard it from quite a lot of other bipolar people or people with depression, who had similar or even identical experiences. It is awkward. Just disgusting...
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 28, 2019 12:09:48 GMT -6
I fear many people see the cost of healthcare for others as being a serious threat to their personal privilege.
|
|
|
Post by saltyjames on Nov 19, 2019 9:53:52 GMT -6
MrHolmes, It is sickening that you experienced that. That's a sad dark soul that would say such a thing. In my mind you (with your friendly, gentle tone / personality) hearing that is nothing compared to what it must be like to be that woman daily. I mean, you took it for what it's worth and healed and maybe in some way grew wiser and stronger. While she just rotted a little more inside. That is truly pitiful to me.
My take on why people can't love and respect all humans is: People are sinners. We all are. And the things we hate in others are often most particularly what we are also guilty of or resent in ourselves. Romans 2:1,2 Matt 7:1,2
Example: I put John Eppstein on ignore. Why? He is hot headed and often simply rude. And, honestly, so am I. He has a lot of experience and is irritated at things not being correct in his presence. And so am I. He suffers fools like NOT AT ALL. Ditto.
In short, I am more like John than not like him. And his bad behavior (sorry John) subconsciously reminds me of my similar behavior and it is unsettling. ((John, if I am ever out your way I will look you up. I would love to see you live, and meet you even as cranky as you can be.))
I believe that woman saw in your disability something in herself that she also sees as disabled and resents. It doesn't excuse anything. And consider where she went: Straight to the death factor. That you should die / be euthanized / aborted because of what you are.
Her day will come. But more importantly, All of our days will come.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 19, 2019 16:23:02 GMT -6
I'm sorry you had that happen. Says everything about her and nothing about you. There are lots of reasons some people become weak and vulnerable to shitty, ghoulish ideologies. And there are lots of people ready to stoke and exploit those weaknesses. Sure everytime I see people on the TV screen praying hate speech or I lock into my face (hate) book account I am schocked how many people seem to have such a low self-esteem that they eat the cake without proofing the facts. Meanwhile I am sure many people suffer from narcissistic disorder and that's why they need to look down on someone, or a group of people etc. They just feel better if they can blame others. It doesn't matter who it is. Disabled ones, LGBT, old people,whole countries or they just hate everyone who is different, not white....not smart enough...not up to their wishes, standards. I am alright with being different I don't value my life by the standards of narcissists. Absolutely right it says more about the narcicistic person. And that's the reason why they show no mercy to anyone. They are deeply worried inside their souls because they never have been loved for just being there, here on Earth. Or people who simply don't happen to agree with them.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 19, 2019 16:28:49 GMT -6
Sure everytime I see people on the TV screen praying hate speech or I lock into my face (hate) book account I am schocked how many people seem to have such a low self-esteem that they eat the cake without proofing the facts. Meanwhile I am sure many people suffer from narcissistic disorder and that's why they need to look down on someone, or a group of people etc. They just feel better if they can blame others. It doesn't matter who it is. Disabled ones, LGBT, old people,whole countries or they just hate everyone who is different, not white....not smart enough...not up to their wishes, standards. I am alright with being different I don't value my life by the standards of narcissists. Absolutely right it says more about the narcicistic person. And that's the reason why they show no mercy to anyone. They are deeply worried inside their souls because they never have been loved for just being there, here on Earth. Or people who simply don't happen to agree with them.
That drives them nuts....
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 19, 2019 16:44:19 GMT -6
MrHolmes, It is sickening that you experienced that. That's a sad dark soul that would say such a thing. In my mind you (with your friendly, gentle tone / personality) hearing that is nothing compared to what it must be like to be that woman daily. I mean, you took it for what it's worth and healed and maybe in some way grew wiser and stronger. While she just rotted a little more inside. That is truly pitiful to me. My take on why people can't love and respect all humans is: People are sinners. We all are. And the things we hate in others are often most particularly what we are also guilty of or resent in ourselves. Romans 2:1,2 Matt 7:1,2 Example: I put John Eppstein on ignore. Why? He is hot headed and often simply rude. And, honestly, so am I. He has a lot of experience and is irritated at things not being correct in his presence. And so am I. He suffers fools like NOT AT ALL. Ditto. In short, I am more like John than not like him. And his bad behavior (sorry John) subconsciously reminds me of my similar behavior and it is unsettling. ((John, if I am ever out your way I will look you up. I would love to see you live, and meet you even as cranky as you can be.)) I believe that woman saw in your disability something in herself that she also sees as disabled and resents. It doesn't excuse anything. And consider where she went: Straight to the death factor. That you should die / be euthanized / aborted because of what you are. Her day will come. But more importantly, All of our days will come.
Well, its sad that someone would use the ignore button simply because someone disagrees with them. Especially with a person who recognizes some degree of kinship in outlook.
(At The Purple Place I have a number of people on ignore, but I usually end up breaking down and using the "View Individual Post" button anyway. A good part of the time I'm glad I did.)
James, I know you're not seing this, but if you do (maybe someone will quote this), but I would love to meet you in person some time.
Understand, half of my family comes from a culture with a deep tradition of working things out via argument (Eastern European Jewish on my father's side - he was among several other things, a rabbi), so that's part of the way I learn - you make your best case, the other guy makes his best case, you go around a couple or so times, and hopefully at least one of you, if not both, will learn something.
Often the "fog of internet" makes things seem much more adamant than they really are, or would be if people were face to face.
Mr. Holmes, regarding your encounter with the old lady, probably she has such a low opinion of herself or with how her life has turned out and feel a cumpulsion to feel superior to somebody. Some people belong to entire social groups who suffer from such a mental outlook. And some people are just sociopaths. Not much we can do about it.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 19, 2019 16:51:50 GMT -6
What makes little sense to me is when victims are further victimized. I do understand that folks might post things that they would otherwise never say to face to face, and that anonymity exacerbates the problem, but I wonder that it's such a common thing that it's become "acceptable" behavior and has begun to transfer into RL and what recently happened with mrholmes . I hope I'm not treading on precarious ground when I say that the popularity of the politics of hate is all but feeding the problem. It's the "At least I'm better than that person!" syndrome. Food for demagogues.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 8:43:02 GMT -6
There is a couple of reasons for discriminative behaviour of the ugly kind like in this case. - If you have nothing to be proud of, you get your self confidence easily by feeling superior to someone just because of them beeing different. May this be another nationality, other religion or no religion, different political opinion, culture, other sex, other sexual orientation, other color of skin, and, of course, handicaps and illnesses and obviously also all kinds of simple optical differences. For people in the teen age years, who start to define themselves, it is very important set borders, discriminate yourself as a group from others and therefore discriminate others. People often forget this as adults. Because as adult people we should have learned how to deal with differences in a tolerant and mature way. People who are a bit simpler and underpriviledged or untalented or bored by reason can easily be brought back to childish stereotypical thinking and immature judging someone without even knowing anything about him. Politicans of all times instrumentalized the "we are better than them / I am better than you" attitude for blaming minorities of all kind for everthing evil that may piss people of in society. Demagogic / populistic is often another word for plainly intolerant asshole behaviour (sorry, but that is how it is IMO). And yes, narcisstic and psychopathic tendencies are always annoying in this regard, but most people who is into this hate culture are not... (It might be as simple as: If you don't have anything to be proud of, you still can be proud of where you were bore, that you have a distinct skin color, you are raised in a cultural background and so on. All things nobody with a brain should be proud of, because you can only be proud of your own achievements from your personal starting point, development, ethical behaviour, unique thoughts and active understanding and mindful reasoning...
As of the culture of discussion and the "ignore" button.... On FB and other social media I sometimes choose to use it fast. Because there are totally incompatible believes out there, intolerant behaviour, far right and fascistiod mindsets, where discussion is totally useless. Discussing with political fanatics of this kind leads nowhere. it is a bit like trying to discuss with Jehova's Witnesses about atheism. Or even more frustrating and useless... This is what I use these buttons for. AFAIK I never did this on this board. Actually I was not even aware of this function. Reminds me of what a generally open minded and peaceful place this forum is. Exceptional for the internet...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 1:15:39 GMT -6
What makes little sense to me is when victims are further victimized. I do understand that folks might post things that they would otherwise never say to face to face, and that anonymity exacerbates the problem, but I wonder that it's such a common thing that it's become "acceptable" behavior and has begun to transfer into RL and what recently happened with mrholmes . I hope I'm not treading on precarious ground when I say that the popularity of the politics of hate is all but feeding the problem. I thought about this quite some time in the past, when rascism, neoliberal and even neofascist tendencies came back into the middle of society, step by step, sneaking in... The winners of these hate behaviours are people who are in the far anti-democratic right wing. Their charismatic leaders have a childish pleasure when they push the borders of good taste, of political and humanistic taboos, their goal is to pave the way for people that are new despots, dictators from within democracy. They just use what always worked. Like a perfect recipe. The whole program. It is kind of 1933 in Germany. Right wing nationalists gain wider popularity in society and use democratic structures to their advantage. They gain up to 30% and more in elections. (25-30 in Germany, 49 in Austria, at least 2 digits in most European countries. Which is reason enough to be seriously concerned. We have right wing terrorism, that most of the time is covered up as "harmless" or not politically motivated, also if it is undeniably hate crimes with political root in intolerance, sexism, racism, nationalism. And then we have countries like Italy, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary and Turkey, developed countries, that have already have fascistoid leaders who made it to the top by democracy, some of them openly doing hate speech with even original national-socialistic language (on purpose), and they proclaim nationalism. Actually maybe most disturbing ... the leaders of UK and USA... (I hope you get that this is no fingerpointing after all I wrote before, it is a general international trend in the former so called civilized western culture societies.) They instrumentalize the lust of breaking former taboos, making fun of political correctness, beeing un-solidaric and undemocratic, just plainly beeing bad and inhuman seemingly without consequences. And they applaude to each other for every new scandalous misbehaving. Because society slowly has been prepared to tolerate the intolerance. This kind of stuff disgusts me on a daily basis in the meanwhile. Therefore, in my personal environment, I remove everyone who plays this game and doesn't make a change, if I make them aware of it, from my contact lists, no matter if friend or family.... Unfortunately you can not do this with people in the bus, on the street, in the supermarket etc. etc......
|
|