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Post by M57 on Dec 14, 2022 17:44:22 GMT -6
For me it's a matter of function.. If the tune is guitar driven, I tend to favor two mics, an LDC "over shoulder" and an equidistant SDC aimed at the body below the high frets. Otherwise just a lone SDC aimed similarly, but a little closer.
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Post by M57 on Dec 14, 2022 13:30:45 GMT -6
I'd be curious what audio interface M57 is using, as I've noticed a lot more clarity when using a high-end pre (like the Great River, although I have no experience with the 500 series unit) directly into a proper data-path than otherwise. I'm pretty happy with my chains. Vocal BSA UM4X --> Great River NP-500NV --> Warm WA-2A --> MOTU 828 ES Piano AKG C-451Bs --> A designs P-1s -- MOTU I have other mics and pre-amps but these are my go-to's. Once in the box it stays there except when I throw an AudioScape Buss Compressor on the mix buss. My initial thoughts were to get another compressor/color box for the Mix Buss, which I could also use for printing, but this thread has made me reconsider my options. It started out compression, compression, compression, but there are clearly other options that I should seriously research/consider. I'd have to get a bigger lunchbox if I decided to get an EQ or two (for recording) ..but then at that point, I figure that might force my hand and I'd be temped to fill the extra slots with a nice stereo compressor, like an API 529. But I've been considering 19" gear, with things like the Silver Bullet, Black Box, Manley Var-Mu, etc. That's the point of this thread. Given the quality of plugins these days, I want to make sure I'm putting up the big bucks for the equipment that will make the most impact. Maybe I should save a lot and I just focus on gear like EQs that I use before things get to the box (though I could use any of the gear I've mentioned for that too).
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Post by M57 on Dec 14, 2022 5:48:33 GMT -6
I almost always want EQ on every little thing though. Especially EQ that sounds like it’s part of the source, I can re-shape the mic or source with EQ. Obviously, putting a real EQ on every track is too expensive, so I assume you record through EQ hardware. The problem is that you have to commit. Do you ever find yourself printing already recorded tracks through EQ hardware?
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Post by M57 on Dec 13, 2022 15:08:45 GMT -6
Spent a day in the studio comparing the UAD 160 against my hardware. Of course there was a certain difference, but it was so small that I sold the hardware and have been satisfied with the UAD 160VU plugin. This is the type of story that makes me wonder if I shouldn't be trying and get by with a few solid versatile compressor plugins like Molot (which I don't have yet), and put my hardware money into straight mojo, like the Analog Design's Black Box.
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Post by M57 on Dec 13, 2022 13:55:54 GMT -6
It's time for someone to mention that the musician is the most important piece of gear... The point of the thread (or at least my it was my intention as the OP) was to focus on hardware one might use in a hybrid fashion and weigh its value against today's plugins. So Musicians, instrument quality, microphones, placement, treatment, pre-amps, etc. shouldn't really be part of the discussion, unless for instance the pre-amp is designated for re-amping or coloring applications. Put it this way, if you can buy it as a plugin, it's fair game.
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Post by M57 on Dec 12, 2022 18:02:13 GMT -6
If you're compressing on the way in, you frequently want a HPF in front of the compressor if it's to be done at all. Otherwise the shit you want to get rid of is what's triggering the compressor. Maybe your compressor has an acceptable HPF in the side chain, and that works fine. Frequently not. DI bass into a compressor? Usually I damn well better have a HPF set at 20Hz to keep the thumps from pumping. The Tone Beast (which was my preferred bass pre-amp) does have a HPF but unfortunately it's at 80hz, way too high for bass. Is there not an inexpensive one trick pony HPF out there? If not, what other reasons might there be for me want to put an EQ in the chain before the compressor? All that said, it sounds like there is not a great need for HP on most other sources because they can be filtered out ITB.
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Post by M57 on Dec 12, 2022 16:54:52 GMT -6
Since you already have quite a few things mentioned here, what about the Dangerous Music 2 Bus +. It brings you a lot closer to a big console sound. I'm not sure what the point is of a summing mixer.. for parallel compression maybe? I was thinking of putting things mostly in series at mixdown. Other than that, I don't think I need all that other functionality, do I? I have one set of monitors and wear one headset (at a time). I almost never have anyone else in the studio, and I don't have much in the way of outboard gear short of what's going into my interface, a MOTU 828es, which has more than enough gazintas and gozotas for my needs. Now if I pick up another compressor and a couple of EQs I may want to consider a patchbay. Is Console sound more impactful than a good analog compressor? Right now I'm trying to sus out what type of compressor would be a good foil for the AS buss comp, with the idea that I would probably be running them in series during mixdown. You know my music ..it doesn't hit hard. A Vari-Mu? Bridge Diode?
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Post by M57 on Dec 12, 2022 15:37:43 GMT -6
So you're saying put a low pass filter on everything going in? None of my pre-amps have it. Do you have any recommendations? I don't need another pre-amp, and I don't know that I want to break the bank on a high end eq just for one knob. I don't care about the format, 500, 19", clunky box ..whatever. Looks like the inexpensive 500 series units out there only have HP shelving.
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Post by M57 on Dec 12, 2022 13:49:32 GMT -6
I know you have a great mic, so I would suggest that a great hardware preamp and a really good compressor should be first on your list. I think I'm OK on the chain going in. I already have a number of good preamps.. The Great River NV-500 is my current go-to mic pre, and from there it passes through a Warm WA-2A before hitting the box. I use a pair of A-Designs P-1's for the piano, and other SDC duties like acoustic guitar, etc. I also have a Warm Tone Beast that I was using for bass, though lately I've had a real bass player playing on my tracks, so that sits mostly idle these days. That's why I'm pointing this thread toward hardware that I'd be using in a hybrid setting, mostly for printing tracks and mastering duties. The 'Compressor!' message from folks here confirms my thoughts, though second on my wants list is a color/saturation box. However, it does occur to me that some compressors can do that too. Currently I have a AudioScape Buss Compressor that sits on the two buss, and I love it. I want more analog goodness! Right now I'm leaning toward another stereo compressor ..a Vari-Mu would be nice!
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Post by M57 on Dec 11, 2022 11:14:38 GMT -6
This is not just a theoretical question. I’m hoping to make one or two hardware purchases (of the processor variety) and I’d prefer not to spend money on items where plugins excel. I'm not really looking for specific recommendations at this point. Rather, I’m curious to know what plugin types folks think do the job just as well if not better than hardware, and visa versa ..where they find that hardware is vastly preferred.
It’s not really meant to be a desert island type of question, but I am kind of thinking of it as a “What are the first two categories/types of hardware you might recommend for someone who is putting together a studio with the knowledge that they might not be making any more purchases in the near term? In addition to recording chain hardware and audio interfaces, it might be best to exclude plugins that are meant to faithfully reproduce the sounds of specific pieces of hardware from the discussion, because I assume that they almost always lose. And let's further assume that the hardware is pro level I.e, the studio owner is able to spend at least a few thousand dollars on each piece of kit.
I suspect folks might want to recommend/compare specific plugins or hardware for argument's sake, and that’s ok, but really, my aim is to find out where the value is in a general sense.
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Post by M57 on Dec 10, 2022 15:53:16 GMT -6
So I'm trying to figure out the slots. There are three?? One is the stereo slot taken up by the SSL buss (which comes with the unit), and it has a mix knob. The other are mono, dedicated to each channel, and are delivered empty in the stock unit. If I'm on the right track, how are the two mono units controlled? The simple schematic at the bottom of the Mk2 page on the LTL site labels the C-Drive knob as controlling "Plugin Slots." Does this mean that all three slots all linked to the C-DRV knob? Are they also linked to the C-MIX knob?
Just making sure, Is the 'dual slot' you speak of the slot that the SSL buss sits in? I'd want to remove it in order to use the LTL mojo amps coming in the future, right?
Thanks!
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Post by M57 on Dec 9, 2022 15:26:11 GMT -6
Does the C-Mix knob impart a parallel processing type of functionality? If so, I'm wondering if how folks use it with the Hitmaker4000 module. Wouldn't there be phase issues if it's set to anything other than 0 or 100%?
Which brings a thought to mind (No doubt it's been suggested before, but just making sure) Wouldn't it be nice if the insert(s) had a dedicated Mix knob, especially seeing as none of my outboard gear has one. I'm thinking a lot of people are inserting compressors in there, and a lot of those don't have mix knobs ..especially the vintage ones. Mk3 maybe??
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Post by M57 on Dec 6, 2022 6:26:18 GMT -6
Does anyone have recommendations for a floor unit to move just a little air around a medium size room (call it 20'x30')? I was getting ready to hit a random button at Amazon and get one of those towers in the $80-$100 range but then realized it might be a good idea to ask here first. I would turn it off when recording, but it would be nice to be able to have it on while mixing. Optimally, I don't want to hear the thing at all.
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Post by M57 on Dec 4, 2022 6:42:52 GMT -6
Breaking the lyd48's in. I'm very happy with them so far. I found that if I play them too loud, resonant frequencies in the lower mids (0.2kish) start to bloom a bit. This doesn't surprise me because I know that when I mix material recorded in the same space on headphones I usually have to surgically eq things in that area. In other words, they are in the recording, and I suspect that the problem is exacerbated when I play it back in the same space. Luckily my space is pretty large and I have the speakers away from walls and corners, so at low to moderate volume levels, all seems fine. I'm definitely appreciating the perspectives I get from switching from speakers to headphones and back.
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Post by M57 on Nov 30, 2022 9:56:00 GMT -6
Here's an older thread that's been bumped a few times since s2 came out.
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Post by M57 on Nov 29, 2022 14:33:19 GMT -6
I have finally found some ways to make it sound great. And by the way, there are great piano like midi controllers (so to speak) for VI pianos now. Some even have wood hammers, etc. So, the times they are a changin'. I was going to start a thread asking about controllers. I've been using an M-Audio 61, which has been just fine for general synth work, but I'll be needing the full 88 and a good action. I don't think a mess of extra features is all that important, I can still use the plastic controller for pitch bend etc. ..and what tricks do you use?
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Post by M57 on Nov 29, 2022 13:07:36 GMT -6
First, let's get one thing out of the way. There's NOTHING like the real thing. Playing a VI is nowhere near as satisfying as playing a physical piano. That said, recording a real piano is a PITA. To get anywhere near the balance that you get with a virtual piano, you need to have perfect conditions, (space, mic placement, etc). I have tuned, miced, and recorded my own baby grand for years now and used it exclusively on my music. No VI's. But that's probably going to change. For one, I'm never really happy with the sound I've gotten. I've tried LDCs, SDCs, all kinds of positioning, etc, and there are always phase and coloration issues. When I record a solo piano or piano in a very sparse arrangement, I may continue to use the real thing because VIs are just too easy to spot when they are exposed, but otherwise, I think VI's are the way to go. One huge advantage is that you can EDIT! Also, if it's not sitting in the mix well, you can just switch out pianos, or change any number of parameters, like the "condition" like Brad said above, that defines the sound of the thing.
I'm currently giving Pianoteq8 a test drive. A friend is temporarily sharing one of his licensees with me. Here are my initial thoughts.
In addition to a long list of pianos, tunings and such, pianoteq lets you modify just about anything you can think of, from the hardness of the hammer felts and various mechanical noises, to the soundboard material and the length of the strings. It also includes a number of other acoustic keyboard instruments, and they even threw in a nice classical guitar that sounds surprisingly good.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't use samples, rather the sounds are modeled, so the size of the program is MUCH smaller because there are no samples. I A/B'd all of pianoteq's pianos against the Logic stock piano, which I use all the time when working on ideas, and I have to say that while the range of sound of Pianoteq's pianos is amazing, none of them are any better sounding to my ear than the stock Logic piano. Don't get me wrong, many of them are going to be more appropriate and do a better job ..depending on the music, but the quality, depth, and overall realism is no better. I'm not saying this in an effort to pan the product, but I'm pretty sure that nobody has yet to invent a virtual piano that can pass the smell test in a solo setting. Bottom line: The pianos are very good sounding, and if you can't find or tweak one of its pianos to work in your mixes, then ..ummm.. you probably shouldn't have a piano there in the first place, and I'm seriously thinking of buying it for myself.
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Post by M57 on Nov 27, 2022 18:01:01 GMT -6
Pulled the trigger on the lyd48‘s. Should be getting them sometime this week. Thanks all!
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Post by M57 on Nov 26, 2022 16:07:17 GMT -6
Hah. I bought twice as many!
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Post by M57 on Nov 25, 2022 16:02:15 GMT -6
For me - Keyscape all day, everyday. I would love to get me a good EP, but I'm primarily looking for a good set of virtual pianos, and I have my eye on Pianoteq 8. I assume you like the Keyscape pianos as well?
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Post by M57 on Nov 25, 2022 10:48:12 GMT -6
ADAM has monitors in this price range, the AH77's, and they sport two 7" drivers. and it looks like they have the same tweeters as the Hedd 07's. Both are also ported in the front, which is not a look I'm particularly fond of. The ADAM's are new to the market, but has anyone heard them?
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Post by M57 on Nov 24, 2022 19:03:50 GMT -6
If you can find them, the JBL 7 series is phenomenal. I believe the 705’s are around your price point. I’ve had the 708s since the summer and haven’t had to think twice about my mix translation. Incredible speakers. I have to admit I've never been a fan of the horn design that JBL uses, but my bias is based on the JBL speakers of the 80's. They sounded great with rock, pop and electronic music, but not so much with acoustic, symphonic, and music in more intimate settings. Has that changed? ..or perhaps was my bias ill-founded in the first place? I'm looking at the back of a 705p. I don't see any xlr inputs.
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Post by M57 on Nov 23, 2022 6:08:58 GMT -6
Like mine, your room is compromised.. I have a lot of treatment in the space and traps in the corners, but I won't disagree with you. The 8" woofer on the dyns might be too much. That's one of the major reasons I've been leaning toward the Focals. My understanding is that combined surface area of the two mid-range drivers along with the passive radiators enable it to produce low frequencies very efficiently, with the caveat that it rolls off steeply at the very bottom of its range. My recordings are largely in the folk and jazz genres, and I don't pump up the bass. That said, I would like to hear more about the Dyns.
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Post by M57 on Nov 22, 2022 18:32:26 GMT -6
..I have my 2 visual monitors stacked vertically.. That would freak me out! lol
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Post by M57 on Nov 22, 2022 18:17:02 GMT -6
They need to sit on their sides, right? With nearly 15" of width each because I currently have a 4 space lunchbox on the upper tier, I'd have to reconfigure my desk a bit. It's nearly 6' across, but with two big 27" monitors taking up a good swath of it, things will be tight. I'd be sitting only 3' away from the tweeters, with along with my head will make a 90 degree isosceles triangle. That sound about right? Here's an older pic. Most of the hardware is different, but I'm using the same screens so you can see it will be a squeeze. Or perhaps do they need to be more distant from the chair?
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