|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 17:06:57 GMT -6
I had forgotten all about those colors. In retrospect it was a sign of things to come. Blatantly thumbing their nose at the pro market.... Pandering to the bedroom crowd. Not sure the prices are "bedroom crowd" John . Not pointing any fingers but this thread has become a little "purple" IMO - largely speculation Cheers, Ross Would you want to set up a mic that looked like that on a stage or in a public studio? Given the choice of another mic of similar quality that doesn't scream "Dilettante!" or maybe "Fashionista!" or won't invoke ire from any video guy who might be present?
I vwouldn't. And I have a few very expensive but normal looking mics to use. U48. C12a. K84(pair). Coupla Pearlmans. Etc. Why would I want to use a mic that evokes Martha Stewart before it's even plugged in?
Mics should not call attention to themselves. It's not professional.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 16:52:51 GMT -6
We'll combine farces then! BTW I'm always right. It's the only thing I have left. Chris Your right is left ? Abooot-FARCE!
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 16:51:24 GMT -6
A lot of things have collided with this company. They've been strategizing their diversification for years now, knowing that DSP couldn't be their main thing forever. And studios are only going smaller and cheaper. They are trying to straddle that line between high-priced brand and affordable entry brand. Not unlike every other big name that isn't Neumann. But that chip factory fire was a big deal, and COVID had its pros and cons for a business like theirs. If they were financing new growth for diversifying, and then those other things hit costs of current business expenses, they could be looking at an issue where they had to cut expenses somewhere. They missed the point (fact) that high priced companies NEVER survive an attempt to attract a mass market for low priced junk. It always kills the primary, like a lamprey eel. The only (semi) way to barely survive is to open one-shot "straw" companies to unload the junk.
The late night TV ads are filled with the names of formerly proud, famous companies that are now figurehead "names" hawked by promoters like "Bulbhead". Along with the more obvious one-shot products. The locusts have arrived and more are coming. We need bug spray!
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:59:36 GMT -6
We'll probably see something like "David Bock Designs" or "FocusBock" or some other spin. LOL But how old is he? I know he was working at Power Station, which was a long ass time ago. Has to be near retirement age. He knowingly sold the name and rights to Bock microphones knowing someone else was in charge of decisions ultimately. I'm sure he's sitting pretty. I'm interested to know who else was let go. I'm sure David's salary was a higher one, and once they own the IP and brand he isn't completely essential. Valuable, of course, but I'm sure they could have pulled off building mics without him in the first place. It was the branding that gave them legitimacy. I haven't seen Ben Lindell doing any of the marketing videos for some time. A lot of things have collided with this company. They've been strategizing their diversification for years now, knowing that DSP couldn't be their main thing forever. And studios are only going smaller and cheaper. They are trying to straddle that line between high-priced brand and affordable entry brand. Not unlike every other big name that isn't Neumann. But that chip factory fire was a big deal, and COVID had its pros and cons for a business like theirs. If they were financing new growth for diversifying, and then those other things hit costs of current business expenses, they could be looking at an issue where they had to cut expenses somewhere. Collided? Hell, yes! Strategizing? I dunno. I think that if they were really strategizing the first hill to climb would be taming and controlling their bean counters and stockholders to avoid subjecting the company to a slow and embarassing eventual death. If they can't keep David Bock I see no real progress in product development of a truly innovative nature. You need audio innovators for an audio company. You can't just rely on coders fresh out of college, with or without "credentials". You need a background in the real gear or you don't understand anything about the the design side of the business.
There was a very famous piece of audio gear (may have been a comp, maybe an EQ) that nobody could ever clone. Why? Because the idiot coders went by the schematic, not realizing that part of the tone of the device was the result of "phantom components" in the devices' PC board. In other words, the exact layout. Doing a digital clone of the published circuit wouldn't work (sound) right. Bob O. might know what device I'm referring to.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:32:43 GMT -6
Right now D. Bock must be the person with the most knowledge on quality microphone manufacturing. But I had lunch with him one day years ago & we talked about everything but microphones & I was extremely impressed with the man. I think he'll be on to something new when the time is right & we'll probably hear about it as soon as it happens.
I probably wouldn't go QUITE that far. There's always Klaus.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:30:34 GMT -6
I kind of assumed that, David Bock aside, these recently discussed lay offs had something to do with whatever is going on with the Spark mini-debacle currently unfolding. It's starting to sound like a bit of a shit show. Which is disappointing. I like UA, but this seems problematic. Glad I don't use Spark right now. I used to love UA. It's why I'm so totally disappointed with what's left of the company now. I had a real Teletronix La2A fora day or two when I was middle manning it to a friend's studio for FM*. If I'd known the future I would have given FM the $250 out of my paycheck and kept it.
* FM = Fillmore Management Productions an division of BGP
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:22:24 GMT -6
Why am I not surprised by this? My suspicion - Dave's standards are simply too high for the UA bean counters. Remember that they got their commercial "weight" by family ties and that UA does not now make the definitive versions of ANY of their famous pieces - and their prices are generally on the high side. I'm not a financial supporter, but I must admit that they haven't rested on their laurels -- I'd be surprised if >15% of their profits come from their hardware classics/reissues. No, they've all but thrown their former "laurels" out with the trash. That's why I bought my LA2A from Audioscape. Half the money, twice the quality.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:18:57 GMT -6
It's all probably bone simple. A CFO's main concern is the bottom line, which is a number. Stockholders want profit. A virtual product that needs no metal parts made in different countries, no space for building and storage and doesn't need shipping or repairs seems much more attractive to those whose main concern is profit. They may not get that the hardware production supports the software production, even if it is a loss leader. Once developed, plug-ins are a cash cow. EXACTLY! (Unfortunately)
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:12:14 GMT -6
Credentials? Are you kidding? (No, you're just young) There were no real credentials in this from schools when I started out. I learned by doing and by working for older people in the biz. That's the way most of us did it back then. I'm72 years old I got interested in this around 1960. My Dad was a professor at The University of Oklahoma and most of my friends were fellow "college brats" - which gave us free access to the university science labs (up to a point, anyway.) The wold was full of ham radio guys who built their own rigs - and their own stereo sound systems. From parts, not finished components.
What are your "credentials"
So you don't have a clue then, understood. No, they didn't offer them back then. Audio engineers were taught by other, more experienced engineers. There were no "recording schools" like there are today. I don't believe that even placesd like Berklee had engineering programs yet. I wasn't considered a worthwhile business for a school to pursue. The closest you could get was Broadcast.
A clue? You are joking again, right? What I don't have is a meaningless piece of paper. That some seem to believe is a substitute for experience.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 15:06:13 GMT -6
We'll probably see something like "David Bock Designs" or "FocusBock" or some other spin. LOL But how old is he? I know he was working at Power Station, which was a long ass time ago. Has to be near retirement age. He knowingly sold the name and rights to Bock microphones knowing someone else was in charge of decisions ultimately. I'm sure he's sitting pretty. I'm interested to know who else was let go. I'm sure David's salary was a higher one, and once they own the IP and brand he isn't completely essential. Valuable, of course, but I'm sure they could have pulled off building mics without him in the first place. It was the branding that gave them legitimacy. I haven't seen Ben Lindell doing any of the marketing videos for some time. A lot of things have collided with this company. They've been strategizing their diversification for years now, knowing that DSP couldn't be their main thing forever. And studios are only going smaller and cheaper. They are trying to straddle that line between high-priced brand and affordable entry brand. Not unlike every other big name that isn't Neumann. But that chip factory fire was a big deal, and COVID had its pros and cons for a business like theirs. If they were financing new growth for diversifying, and then those other things hit costs of current business expenses, they could be looking at an issue where they had to cut expenses somewhere. If they own the brand name they own his name, in essence. That's one of the things that concerns me - how tight their brand name ownership actually is.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 14:06:16 GMT -6
I think the biggest argument in favor of what you’re saying here is exactly zero plugins sound like their hardware counterparts. While some modern hardware manufacturers(like retro instruments) have exceeded the originals in some cases. I get what you’re saying and I’m not sure why it has been such a sticking point. It’s about the format, hardware clones are at least playing on the same ball field, sure some old parts aren’t available but you’ve at least got a fighting chance. Software seems more like trying to put a sock on a snake 🤣 Egg-friggin'-zactly! And, at the same time, thankfully, there are new software processing approaches that would be really difficult to do in hardware.
It's just like sex with a condom...that's what you were referring to, right? I believe you missed the point once again.
Gawd, talking to you kids is like trying to explain something to someone who speaks only a foreign language...
Think for a monent - we are not talking about "approaches that would be really difficult to do in hardware". That's irrelevant. You can't even do a decent job on stuff that's dead easy to do in hardware. That you software guys still CAN'T GET RIGHT!
You have to learn to walk before you even think about running. Have a little humility fer crissake!
Apologies to everybody else. I'm in a certain amount of pain these days and it makes me cranky. Don't get gout.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 7, 2023 14:04:12 GMT -6
So you believe that emulating something in software is for some reason more dificult than developing and fine tuning hardware?
No comment.
Yes; I do believe, and have provided a very sound argument, that emulating audio gear in software is more difficult (for many reasons) than cloning existing hardware designs that have schematics and reference architectures. Do you have credentials in either software engineering or electronics engineering?
If so, I'm all ears. If not...no comment.
Credentials? Are you kidding? (No, you're just young) There were no real credentials in this from schools when I started out. I learned by doing and by working for older people in the biz. That's the way most of us did it back then. I'm72 years old I got interested in this around 1960. My Dad was a professor at The University of Oklahoma and most of my friends were fellow "college brats" - which gave us free access to the university science labs (up to a point, anyway.) The wold was full of ham radio guys who built their own rigs - and their own stereo sound systems. From parts, not finished components.
What are your "credentials"
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 6, 2023 19:01:59 GMT -6
Easier? So what? you still have materials costs, labor costs, distribution costs, etc, which you don't have with software. Whith softyware, after your development is done it's pretty much all gravy. And from what I hear, they don'y usually go for a straightforward circuit emulation - it's more of a function emulation. You previously said that software is "much easier from every aspect" and I was responding to that -- Easier and cheaper are distinctly different qualities, and I was very clearly responding to the former; you, the latter. Please see my previous response to Ward.
In the short run, the effort of cloning hardware functionality (in hardware) is cheaper, but costs significantly more to product-ize and distribute. Emulating hardware functionality (in software) is significantly more difficult, but cost much less to product-ize and distribute.
So you believe that emulating something in software is for some reason more dificult than developing and fine tuning hardware?
No comment.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 22:42:41 GMT -6
There was an Apple ad not too long ago promoting their laptop's new colors. That's fine, but they raved about it like it was an amazing new feature. To me it was silly, perhaps to a younger crowd not so much. I can't imagine the meetings that must have taken place to decide on those awful colors for the Bock. They're basically a classic mic update, cream, silver or black would make sense. If they were going to do a color, the least they should have done was pick something bold and new, not a washed out Martha Stewart towel color. I had forgotten all about those colors. In retrospect it was a sign of things to come. Blatantly thumbing their nose at the pro market.... Pandering to the bedroom crowd.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 22:37:41 GMT -6
This stuff happens all the time. Seems like a mountain is being made of a mole hill. Mr Bock makes great mics, I’m sure he will continue to make great mics. I’ve got a bunch of UA gear, interfaces, plugs - I also think they are great. Sometimes the plan that looks great on paper doesn’t work so great in reality. Slinging shit around doesn’t really seem to get anybody anywhere honestly… I’m sure both parties will move on from this with new found information on what direction they wish to travel and hopefully it will be more rewarding for everybody involved and in the end - all of us included! Oh, WHY am I so cynical about these things???
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 17:38:14 GMT -6
I hate to say this, but I think it might be a matter of exactly WHOSE "original plan" we're talking about... Nailed it, the problem always is this: people will often say what ever it takes to make the deal, often even put it in writing. The trick is the most successful people in buisness are not experts in Econ, accounting, what ever field they are in, no it’s all about understanding people and how to manipulate them. Or, to put it more simply, they are experts at lying. The better they lie, the bigger they get.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 17:22:18 GMT -6
Quint I wasn’t implying it was planned, perhaps inadvertent, if UA was chasing him, perhaps he said ok for X$, and it was high, but UA agreed, then the downturn, supply issues and release delays, then that hiring/carrying cost started to look high, bean counter logic came to the fore, rather than his carrying cost being seen as an investment in a different more innovative ua product future and David was gone. It seems truly a lost opportunity. Yeah, I wasn't saying that you thought the way that this all went down was planned to go down exactly like it did. It may have been planned that he would exit at some point, but I nor you nor probably most people are you viewing his current exit as something that all went down according to the original plan. So we're not in disagreement there. We're saying the same thing. I was just pointing out that it seems clear that things didn't go down according to the original plan, whatever that original plan was. It's probably the one thing that we can all agree on about what happened. The "why" is another matter. Who knows what went down exactly. We just know that it doesn't look to be amicable or planned. I think you're probably right, at least on some counts, about what transpired that led to all of this. I hate to say this, but I think it might be a matter of exactly WHOSE "original plan" we're talking about...
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 16:06:18 GMT -6
Savart beat me to it. With an 8 year old the attention span isn’t worth a large investment, at the same time if you are really trying to encourage them you need them to have a an attachment. It’s all about the set up. I’ll bet a $150 used kid’s guitar from Music go Round is set up better than a New Les Paul at GC! As far as learning, the starter method used is EXTREMELY inportant. Most of the common ones suck from a kiid's viewpoint. nThe one I recommend may or may not be in print right now, but if not it's bworth chasing a co9py thru the online booksellers. The book is: The Folksinger's Guitar Guide by Jerry Silverman (originally from Oak Publications) and it uses a hybrid method, starting with fingering a D and a 2-finger A7 and playing as song with that. Instant gratification. That also introduces the concepts of the Tonic and Dominant chords, laying the groundwork for basic theory and easy transpositions, all in one painless and hopefully fun package It also teaches fingerpicking and various folk styles, including both blues and bluegrass. Looks like used copies are running around $15.00 now.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 15:47:20 GMT -6
Cloning one's own electrical circuit is much easier than emulating it in software Then . . . Why do so many get it wrong? Have you had an opportunity to take apart and examine or listen intently/use intensely a vintage piece of kit versus a reissue? (Neumann AKG API included - with no disrespect at all, just using examples of legacy makers still in business)I've lost hair (I couldn't afford to lose) scratching my head wondering what some trademark owners were thinking . . . Not slagging, just asking . . . what were they thinking? Oh boy... You really wanna know?
Ok. Beans. Thay were thinking about beans. Certainly not audio gear, but that's been pretty obvious for a long time.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 15:41:52 GMT -6
Well, we don't really know anything about the details do we. I have three friends whose companies were bought out. Two stayed on for 1 1/2 years, one stayed with the company. Sticking around for a while and then leaving is actually more the norm than unusual. It doesn't necessarily mean something's wrong, though it very well may be so. I'm interested in hearing Bock's U-67 style mic. I don't like the colors they chose, but if it sounds great, that really is no big deal. Well,I have an ear to a particular rumor mill, and the word is that he has already or is in the process of moving back North. My impression is that he was told that he cost too much, or something similar.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 9:22:26 GMT -6
Mr. Bock had enough time there to oversee production of the new mics. If UAD simply sticks to those standards, there's no reason to think they will sound worse because the designer has left the company. That said, it's quite common for the main person in a company to stay on after a buyout with a new company for a year or two and then leave. It's up to UA to maintain quality, but it wouldn't be a surprise if quality diminished. The odds of UA sticking with Bock's quality standards are slim to none. If they wanted his standards they would not have fired him.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 9:16:28 GMT -6
No offense to anyone but could we keep debate about quality of plugins to somewhere else..? Why does everything always devolve into that topic? The real loss here, with Bock leaving isn't the mics. I'm sure they'll be solid whenever they do finally drop. What we've all lost is everything that was planned beyond the mics. When he came aboard the great ship UA I heard from a couple mutual LA friends that big things were planned including, down the road great possibilities for more hardware. Realistically, Mr Bock is a rare breed of human who can fix anything in a studio. Not only mics. Tape machines. Rebuild an old Neve desk? This is not a problem. And I'm sure he's got more of that work then he could possibly handle. On the east coast master tech John Klett has a three year backlog. At least that's what he told me a couple years ago when I asked him about squaring up my old Telefunken modules. I passed. Guys like that? They're gonna be fine. I'm sure he's not worried about where his next sandwich is coming from. As for UA? Hardware? Another thing I heard from a few people, including my dude at Sweetwater so I have to assume its true... Apparently just as Bock was coming onboard UA broke ground on a new facility dedicated to building mics & analog hardware. Not renovated. Ground up construction on a piece of land near (across the street?) from their main headquarters. That's a massive investment. Big time skin. Yeah, opinions vary on their LA2a including my own. Be that as it may I know at one point, maybe only a year ago there was a massive backorder on those. The SW guy told me, as we're talking about my supposedly incoming Bock mics... that some of the Tube Tech CL1A biz shifted to UA. With TT on a multi year backlog that makes sense. That new facility was also the reason given for missing the first ship date. That things were taking a bit of time to really come online... I get it. As a "tool guy" I know Stanley built a new plant in Texas supposedly dedicated to making Craftsman tools... things like sockets & wrenches. The plant exists. We've seen pics on social media of new tools here & there... but where are they..? I digress. Slightly. People dig the UA hardware including me. At one point, a long time ago they were purely a hardware company. Those LA3A reissues they made 20 years ago are great! Why did those disappear? Seems every time UA puts a pic of those on their social media people ask them to build those again. That's the loss. Things like that. What if... what if down the road Bock would've designed a 1073 killer? Some kinda preamp EQ channel strip? Built in the USA at a competitive price point? With great service backing it up? LA3A killers. 1073 killers. Small diaphragm pencil mics designed by Bock? We'll never know. I didn't say anything about the quality of plugins. It's an entirely different issue. What we are actually talking about is the quality (and quantity) of MONEY!
Anmd the fact that the people running UA are crooks. nI knew it a decade age when they introduced a dingus that allowed running their plugs without their interface, and then discontinued both the dingus and the (older) softwre it ran without warning, only 6 months later.
The people running UA case about only one thing - $$$$$. That should be obvious to anyone who isn't a rube.
The other thing that should be obvious is that beancounters have no concept of future products or of progress. Once they take over the company is dead - th only question is how long and protracted the dying will be.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 9:07:02 GMT -6
I am disgusted that my friend David Bock has been dumped out. Yesterday he wrote that apparently the CFO of UA liked software better than hardware. So some kind of unwillingness on the part of UA to give full commitment to the Bock mic lineup? As David would require. Just don’t know but obviously it smells. No, YOU smell (the aroma.) IT stinks. And I hate to say it, but I saw it coming from the get-go. Lots of people thought that David Bock was too infuential a designed/builder to get the corporate heave-ho. I was right, they were all wrong. (I HATE being right in cases like this.) UA has shown the signs of rot for a long time if anyone was to simply look.
And the CFO of UA is a lying SOB to not have been honest about their goals is the first place.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2023 8:58:21 GMT -6
Software -
It's much cheaper, much easier from every aspect, and has a much higher profit margin than hardware. And once you let the bean counters in..... Cloning one's own electrical circuit is much easier than emulating it in software. Cloning a public domain electrical circuit is also much easier than emulating it in software.
Higher profit margin -- yes!
Easier? So what? you still have materials costs, labor costs, distribution costs, etc, which you don't have with software. Whith softyware, after your development is done it's pretty much all gravy. And from what I hear, they don'y usually go for a straightforward circuit emulation - it's more of a function emulation.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Feb 3, 2023 14:45:09 GMT -6
I'm drinking nothing alcoholic this month. It's February! (Smoking lots of pot though.)
|
|