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Post by Martin John Butler on May 28, 2019 21:09:21 GMT -6
Lately, I've been recording some friends who are doing voice-overs of meditations and some podcasts. It's almost unfortunate I don't have an SM-7B, (I never liked it) but it is good for rejecting room reflections.
I had the Reflexion Filter PRO for a couple of weeks and found it colored vocal tracks way too much. Even my bad room sounded better. The tricky thing is the meditations and mantra's I'm recording are often 20-30 minutes long, and it's hard to completely eliminate the sounds of NYC for that length of time.
I'm picking up too much room, (been recording a bit too hot, old habits ;-) I'll lower gain next time, but I do need something to tame the room for voice-overs only that's hopefully not pricey. A vocal booth would probably be best, but I don't have the space, (I work out of my apartment's living room). I'm considering the sE SPACE, even though I didn't care for the Reflexion Pro. Do you guys think it's a decent solution? The side benefit is that I might like it for my lead vocals, which would be a win-win.
Maybe there are better solutions I haven't thought of. Room treatment at this time is out of the question, (long story).
I mainly do my albums here and typically look for a huge sound, like a U67 or the Chandler REDD, but for voice-overs, I just want less ambience.
My current mic collection is: Stam Audio SA67, Soyuz 0-19 FET, Avantone BV-12, Avantone CV-95, Shure SM58. I can borrow a vintage U47 FET if I must, but I don't think that would make much difference.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 28, 2019 21:36:40 GMT -6
You might want to try some dynamic mics. A 421 or a Beyerdynamic m88tg could work very well, sounding nice and not picking up every little noise. If you use one of your ldc’s try messing with polar patterns. A figure eight pattern with the back against heavy absorption might cut a lot of bleed.
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Post by drbill on May 28, 2019 21:40:20 GMT -6
Martin - BECAUSE of the problems / issues you've mentioned : Big, HD boom mic stands positioned in a "T" formation, with multiple packing blankets hung on them. Forming a "large" reflection filter, small room, deadened area, etc. within them. You can even leave "open" spaces to help liven things up and allow room to "enter" the mini-dead-room. Personally, I'd start with a large triangular area big enough for the artist / mic and form 3 vertical "walls" hung from the boom stands which are in a "t" configuration. The blankets should be 2 feet or so above "head/speaking" level, and do not necessarily need to go all the way to the floor - but at least 2-3 feet below the head. I'll even do this in larger proper studio's sometimes to alleviate the "too much reverberant room" syndrome. This will do a LOT to calm down the "room tone" of the room, although it will not get rid of traffic noise, horns, etc.. Then, a dynamic mic. From what I can tell, your SM58 is probably the best bet, although I'd try for an RE20 or SM7 if possible. Not the most elegant, but it will solve a myriad of problems that a condenser will bring into the equation. So....3-4 "walls", no ceiling to the "room", no "floor" to the "room", but put down carpet. This technique has been used effectively in studio's for decades. Oh, and yeah, close your windows.  If it's noisy in your apartment, there is nothing short of complete studio isolation techniques (i.e. no windows, multiple layers of drywall, dual walls, etc.) that will rid the external city noise from getting in. Although a dynamic mic is your best bet there. |
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Post by geoff738 on May 28, 2019 22:06:20 GMT -6
Well, if not an Sm7 an RE20? And a packing blanket behind it for some isolation? Or a bookshelf.
I think I’d be leaning dynamic for the mic to keep the ambient noise down. Personally I like the Sm7, but if it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work for you. And you don’t have one. Sorry, rereading this with what you have to work with.
I think recording at relatively low levels and boosting after recorded should work fine too.
Or try the 58 with the basket off and pulled back a few inches. I’ve compared a 57 pulled back with my Sm7 so the diaphragms were roughly equivalent and they were definitely in the same general ballpark. Closer than I would have thought. Not selling my Sm7 though!
You have a lot of experience recording in that space. You’ll get this Sorted.
Basically I would try the 58 pulled back a few inches, levels a bit low, something behind to absorb the ambient sound. I do think an LDC while being a larger sound might not be better. But I guess trying much more conservative levels right up on the mic could work too. Worth a shot.
And I guess could this be setup facing into a closet?
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Blackdawg on May 28, 2019 22:31:20 GMT -6
Try one of the Kaotic Eyeball things. Designed to do what youre talking about needing.
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Post by geoff738 on May 28, 2019 23:04:29 GMT -6
Try one of the Kaotic Eyeball things. Designed to do what youre talking about needing. They’ve been discussed here. JK I recall had one. Briefly. The other reflection thingeys have been discussed as well. I soooooo want one to get raves. They might be better than my current situation or Martin’s but I keep hearing that the reflections back off them make things phasey. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by chessparov on May 29, 2019 0:43:06 GMT -6
The M88TG is my 2nd favorite vocal dynamic mic. Would a 441, be within the budget?
Don't laugh, but a spare EV 635a is handy to have around a studio. Bob Ohlsson thinks very highly of them-good enough for me!
Chris
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Post by Blackdawg on May 29, 2019 1:13:31 GMT -6
Try one of the Kaotic Eyeball things. Designed to do what youre talking about needing. They’ve been discussed here. JK I recall had one. Briefly. The other reflection thingeys have been discussed as well. I soooooo want one to get raves. They might be better than my current situation or Martin’s but I keep hearing that the reflections back off them make things phasey. Cheers, Geoff The eyeball isn't a reflection filter. Its more like...a big foam ball haha www.kaoticaeyeball.com/I don't have one so can't comment but seems like something to deal with this exact situation. Bit expensive for what it is though.. |
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Post by stormymondays on May 29, 2019 7:31:37 GMT -6
Martin - BECAUSE of the problems / issues you've mentioned : Big, HD boom mic stands positioned in a "T" formation, with multiple packing blankets hung on them. Forming a "large" reflection filter, small room, deadened area, etc. within them. You can even leave "open" spaces to help liven things up and allow room to "enter" the mini-dead-room. Personally, I'd start with a large triangular area big enough for the artist / mic and form 3 vertical "walls" hung from the boom stands which are in a "t" configuration. The blankets should be 2 feet or so above "head/speaking" level, and do not necessarily need to go all the way to the floor - but at least 2-3 feet below the head. I'll even do this in larger proper studio's sometimes to alleviate the "too much reverberant room" syndrome. This will do a LOT to calm down the "room tone" of the room, although it will not get rid of traffic noise, horns, etc.. Then, a dynamic mic. From what I can tell, your SM58 is probably the best bet, although I'd try for an RE20 or SM7 if possible. Not the most elegant, but it will solve a myriad of problems that a condenser will bring into the equation. So....3-4 "walls", no ceiling to the "room", no "floor" to the "room", but put down carpet. This technique has been used effectively in studio's for decades. Oh, and yeah, close your windows. If it's noisy in your apartment, there is nothing short of complete studio isolation techniques (i.e. no windows, multiple layers of drywall, dual walls, etc.) that will rid the external city noise from getting in. Although a dynamic mic is your best bet there. Just do this and solve all your problems. Remember this goes behind the back of the talent, not in front of them. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 29, 2019 7:33:49 GMT -6
Thanks gentlemen! I'll probably break down and get an SM7, but I will test the SM58, just in case it's good enough. I'll try a few variations of Dr. Bill's suggestions too.
I do have one room that's quiet and more isolated, but around every 15-20 minutes or so, a fairly deep and loud water pump engine turns on and runs for 10 minutes in the basement below and could ruin a good take if it turned on at a sensitive moment.
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 29, 2019 7:43:57 GMT -6
Thanks gentlemen! I'll probably break down and get an SM7, but I will test the SM58, just in case it's good enough. I'll try a few variations of Dr. Bill's suggestions too. I do have one room that's quiet and more isolated, but around every 15-20 minutes or so, a fairly deep and loud water pump engine turns on and runs for 10 minutes in the basement below and could ruin a good take if it turned on at a sensitive moment. Any chance you have any of izotope’s noise reduction plugs? They have one called dialogue de-noise that works extremely well without getting into their crazy expensive plugins. I’d set up a pretty hot mic, and record nothing but the room noise for a half hour and see what you can get rid of with the plugin. It’s always a game of chasing your tail between getting rid of noise and not losing the top end of the audio, but most of the time it’s worth it. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 29, 2019 8:04:14 GMT -6
I don't understand a word of what's going on, but this thing sounds pretty good in the video.
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Post by michaelcleary on May 29, 2019 10:51:37 GMT -6
Sm7, blankets or whatever you have to deaden the room, walls, ceiling. Sometimes a closet loaded with clothes if you can fit but close up on an sm7 will get you most of the way there.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 29, 2019 15:12:01 GMT -6
Thanks Michael, I'm thinking the same thing. I've had my eyes on getting a Soyuz 0-13 FET for a while now, but I may just have to get the SM7 if I want to keep doing the podcast/meditation thing.
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Post by jamiesego on May 29, 2019 15:21:59 GMT -6
I like RE20's for voiceover unless you need some proximity effect. I bet a hypercardioid RE16 would be good too.
I agree with the votes for heavy blankets on stands. If you find anyone around you selling old theater curtains you can really deaden a room with those. I've heard heard great 70's dry drum sounds in a bedroom that was lined with theater curtains.
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Post by brenta on May 29, 2019 15:29:03 GMT -6
An SM58 really is good enough for a podcast, but an SM7b or RE20 would be better. A 57 with a pop filter would work too. I would much prefer the 57/58 over a condenser in an untreated room. A 57/58 with an engineer who actually knows how to use a de-esser, compressor, and EQ will sound better than 90% of the podcasts out there.
I’ve been getting a decent amount of podcast work these days. Everyone wants to start one and there’s tons of money flowing into podcasting. It’s a great opportunity for audio engineers if we can make our value understood.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 29, 2019 18:55:58 GMT -6
This is one of the meditations I recorded for a friend. I'll definitely use the SM58 next time if I don't get an SM7B soon. This was done with the Stam Audio SA67.
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If it's noisy in your apartment, there is nothing short of complete studio isolation techniques (i.e. no windows, multiple layers of drywall, dual walls, etc.) that will rid the external city noise from getting in. Although a dynamic mic is your best bet there.
