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Post by wiz on May 8, 2019 18:19:26 GMT -6
So, I am tracking backing vocals for my next album.
I use different microphones and preamp combinations when I am stacking vocals.
I have my u87 and KM84 set up running into the V72 preamp, and was tracking 4 takes of the same vocal harmony, doing two with the U87 and two with the KM84.
I got mixed up, and physically sang into the U87, but it wasn't on, the KM84 was....its about 18 inches away from the 87.
So I was a foot and a half away, at about 70 degrees off axis.
I thought it sounded quiet when I was singing it....
Sounded fine.
How many clones can you say that about 8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by chessparov on May 8, 2019 20:38:54 GMT -6
Along with that, I find it interesting that David Bock decided to...
Make the "vocal setting" choice of switch, on his iFET, based on the very KM84 style (circuit) sound. Chris
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 0:48:42 GMT -6
Matched pair of KM84s are my only mics now. I tracked female vocals, acoustic guitars and bass amps with them this week. Strong case to be made (for me personally) for not needing anything else, except maybe a couple of KK83 omni caps. I was also stunned around last Christmas time tracking male spoken word with them, best I have ever heard my voice sound recorded. I have never got them to sound perfect right away/with no processing, but for me it's the WAY they take EQ and effects etc., they just sound more and more glorious. I don't usually believe the hype, but there really is something special about them!
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Post by Ward on May 9, 2019 4:26:46 GMT -6
So I was a foot and a half away, at about 70 degrees off axis. 70º Fahrenheit or 70º Centigrade ? Ba dum pish!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 9, 2019 8:28:43 GMT -6
So I was a foot and a half away, at about 70 degrees off axis. 70º Fahrenheit or 70º Centigrade ? Ba dum pish! I believe angles go the other direction below the equator too.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 9, 2019 8:29:04 GMT -6
Not helping my lust for an 84
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Post by Ward on May 9, 2019 8:30:21 GMT -6
70º Fahrenheit or 70º Centigrade ? Ba dum pish! I believe angles go the other direction below the equator too. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! ! wiz, did you have the microphone pointed the other way 'round?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on May 9, 2019 8:33:13 GMT -6
Not helping my lust for an 84 Here we go again😁
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Post by stormymondays on May 9, 2019 8:41:50 GMT -6
Ok, I'll be the fly on the ointment. I just recorded some brushes with a KM84 on snare and I didn't like it. The sound of the brushes was phasey. I probably should have tried a few different mic positions, but the sound was great in the overheads and front of kit, so I decided not to use the mic. Having said that, I think it's the only time I didn't love the KM84!
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Post by sean on May 9, 2019 9:04:38 GMT -6
Once when recording Marty Stuart play electric guitar I got the patch wrong and recorded him through a KM84 that was in the booth for an acoustic guitar overdub. Pointed in the wrong direction of the amp...no one seemed to notice
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Post by Johnkenn on May 9, 2019 9:18:11 GMT -6
Once when recording Marty Stuart play electric guitar I got the patch wrong and recorded him through a KM84 that was in the booth for an acoustic guitar overdub. Pointed in the wrong direction of the amp...no one seemed to notice The big reveal here is that MS played an instrument you plug in.
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Post by reddirt on May 9, 2019 20:20:47 GMT -6
Not an 84 story per se but; Wiz, you've probably heard of the indigenous country singer Warren H Williams - he was recording melodies on a Tele through a marshall combo with the usual SM57 but it was sounding really sweet with an unusually broad sound and we were really happy. Well it transpired the open mic (studio projects C3 in cardioid) was in fact 8 feet away facing a wall, 180 degrees opposed to the amp.
Was a great sound and if it had been an 84 would probably have sounded even better!
Cheers, Ross
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Post by rowmat on May 9, 2019 21:45:18 GMT -6
So try that with the U87 a foot and a half away, at about 70 degrees off axis.
I can guarantee it will sound nasal and honky.
The KM84 has excellent off axis phase response.
Listen to the sound of the high hat spill in a SM57 snare mic and then compare the sound of the high hat spill in a KM84 snare mic.
It's literally chalk and cheese.
I love the KM84 on snare BUT they overload pretty easily.
The internal pad needs at least -20db of attenuation before the internal amp.
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Post by reddirt on May 10, 2019 0:47:04 GMT -6
True that about km 84 overload on snare
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 10, 2019 19:36:46 GMT -6
The best luck I ever had with "room tuning" was using an 84 instead of the usual omni.
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Post by Ward on May 10, 2019 20:09:46 GMT -6
I love the KM84 on snare BUT they overload pretty easily. The internal pad needs at least -20db of attenuation before the internal amp. True that about km 84 overload on snare You all need to try harder. A KM84 doesn't need to sit inside the rim of the snare drum millimeters off the head, near the stick contact point. It can be at the edge of the shell, 4" off. And then not suffer any overload issues. Even when struck by a beast. There are ways.
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Post by rowmat on May 12, 2019 19:12:15 GMT -6
It doesn't happen a lot but occasionally in the past I've noticed some overload even with the mic pad on and the pre padded down. I don't put the mic over the rim as I prefer more shell tone which the KM84 is great at capturing. Besides I don't want my KM84's smashed by energetic drummers! We have two regular drummers who hit HARD! This is one of them... I love the KM84 on snare BUT they overload pretty easily. The internal pad needs at least -20db of attenuation before the internal amp. True that about km 84 overload on snare You all need to try harder. A KM84 doesn't need to sit inside the rim of the snare drum millimeters off the head, near the stick contact point. It can be at the edge of the shell, 4" off. And then not suffer any overload issues. Even when struck by a beast. There are ways.
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Post by longscale on May 24, 2019 21:38:07 GMT -6
I've had a similar experience. Setup was for a singer/songwriter playing acoustic guitar. km84 for guitar, u87 for vocals. Once I had a rough take we were doing some doubles for the vocals and I found that I had flipped the input on the additional tracks so what I thought was the 87 was really the 84. It sounded really good. The only way I figured it out was when I wanted to reduce some of the compression I was using on the way in, and I adjusted the retro 176 which was on the 87 only to discover no difference. No difference because I was listening to the km84 which was patched into a 525. Blew my mind that the vocals sounded so good through the km84. The km84 makes so many things easy for me. I like what I hear very much with that mic.
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Post by Ward on May 25, 2019 5:08:40 GMT -6
It doesn't happen a lot but occasionally in the past I've noticed some overload even with the mic pad on and the pre padded down. I don't put the mic over the rim as I prefer more shell tone which the KM84 is great at capturing. Besides I don't want my KM84's smashed by energetic drummers! We have two regular drummers who hit HARD! This is one of them... You all need to try harder. A KM84 doesn't need to sit inside the rim of the snare drum millimeters off the head, near the stick contact point. It can be at the edge of the shell, 4" off. And then not suffer any overload issues. Even when struck by a beast. There are ways. It's hard to tell from just whatever the sound source is there . . . but it sounds awful. There's no point hitting a drum so hard that it actually sounds bad and loses every bit of character it has.
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Post by johneppstein on May 25, 2019 12:19:00 GMT -6
70º Fahrenheit or 70º Centigrade ? Ba dum pish! I believe angles go the other direction below the equator too. How about Saxons?
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Post by johneppstein on May 25, 2019 12:23:12 GMT -6
So try that with the U87 a foot and a half away, at about 70 degrees off axis. I can guarantee it will sound nasal and honky. The KM84 has excellent off axis phase response. Listen to the sound of the high hat spill in a SM57 snare mic and then compare the sound of the high hat spill in a KM84 snare mic. It's literally chalk and cheese. I love the KM84 on snare BUT they overload pretty easily. The internal pad needs at least -20db of attenuation before the internal amp. Try micing the snare from the side of the shell, a couple inches back and offset from the vent hole to avoid huffing. It sounds crazy if you haven't tried it but I guarantee you will be surprised. And you don't ever need a bottom mic - you can balance top and bottom with the vertical placement. And it takes care of the overload problem.
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Post by chessparov on May 25, 2019 17:40:36 GMT -6
I believe angles go the other direction below the equator too. How about Saxons? Enough below the belt comments already! Chris
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Post by rowmat on May 25, 2019 20:29:08 GMT -6
It doesn't happen a lot but occasionally in the past I've noticed some overload even with the mic pad on and the pre padded down. I don't put the mic over the rim as I prefer more shell tone which the KM84 is great at capturing. Besides I don't want my KM84's smashed by energetic drummers! We have two regular drummers who hit HARD! This is one of them... It's hard to tell from just whatever the sound source is there . . . but it sounds awful. There's no point hitting a drum so hard that it actually sounds bad and loses every bit of character it has. The audio is undoubtably from an onboard video camera mic (VHS etc) with ALC. Mind you this clip is from around 1985 and is probably at least a third generation VHS tape copy.
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Post by rowmat on May 25, 2019 20:31:16 GMT -6
So try that with the U87 a foot and a half away, at about 70 degrees off axis. I can guarantee it will sound nasal and honky. The KM84 has excellent off axis phase response. Listen to the sound of the high hat spill in a SM57 snare mic and then compare the sound of the high hat spill in a KM84 snare mic. It's literally chalk and cheese. I love the KM84 on snare BUT they overload pretty easily. The internal pad needs at least -20db of attenuation before the internal amp. Try micing the snare from the side of the shell, a couple inches back and offset from the vent hole to avoid huffing. It sounds crazy if you haven't tried it but I guarantee you will be surprised. And you don't ever need a bottom mic - you can balance top and bottom with the vertical placement. And it takes care of the overload problem. You obviously missed this from my earlier post... ”I don't put the mic over the rim as I prefer more shell tone which the KM84 is great at capturing.”
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Post by the other mark williams on May 25, 2019 22:44:04 GMT -6
It's hard to tell from just whatever the sound source is there . . . but it sounds awful. There's no point hitting a drum so hard that it actually sounds bad and loses every bit of character it has. The audio is undoubtably from an onboard video camera mic (VHS etc) with ALC. Mind you this clip is from around 1985 and is probably at least a third generation VHS tape copy. Call me nuts, but I actually think that sounds badass just as it is.
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