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Post by johneppstein on May 25, 2019 23:10:05 GMT -6
Try micing the snare from the side of the shell, a couple inches back and offset from the vent hole to avoid huffing. It sounds crazy if you haven't tried it but I guarantee you will be surprised. And you don't ever need a bottom mic - you can balance top and bottom with the vertical placement. And it takes care of the overload problem. You obviously missed this from my earlier post... ”I don't put the mic over the rim as I prefer more shell tone which the KM84 is great at capturing.” Yeah, I saw that, but what I'm talking about is actually placing the mic at the side of the drum roughly equidistant between top and bottom (usually near but not at the vent hole), which is quite dfifferent than just backing off on the top mic.
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Post by rowmat on May 26, 2019 23:03:11 GMT -6
The audio is undoubtably from an onboard video camera mic (VHS etc) with ALC. Mind you this clip is from around 1985 and is probably at least a third generation VHS tape copy. Call me nuts, but I actually think that sounds badass just as it is. Yeah it does have a kind of trashy industrial tone.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 28, 2019 8:22:40 GMT -6
Enough below the belt comments already! Chris Not quite sure if you’re serious.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 11:07:11 GMT -6
Finally got my pair setup in X/Y after checking the new capsules, I am VERY VERY happy! Finally getting closer to the recorded sounds I have in my head. Decided against going for the KK83 capsules as well, at least for now, as would be another £900, and am finding by backing off the KK84s a bit I am getting much closer to the sound I want. Two takes, strummed acoustic, both KM84s in X/Y, 60cm from 14th fret. One take panned hard Left and 25% Left, the other take panned 25% Right and hard Right. Little bit of EQ, and big grins all around from me! Am finding by backing off to 60cm (around 2 feet) I am getting WAY closer to the sound I want and am having to use far less EQ. No other effects. Drums are Drumbrute Impact, not the best pattern for this strumming pattern, and a bit loud, but was just quick proof of concept for myself today. Have noted settings so know what to go for when it comes to real takes! hermetechmastering.com/FeelinAlright.mp3[EDIT] Only mic used in the recording of this was one of my KM84s too:
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Post by chessparov on May 30, 2019 13:56:39 GMT -6
Enough below the belt comments already! Chris Not quite sure if you’re serious. All in fun John.
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Post by chessparov on May 30, 2019 14:01:54 GMT -6
Beautiful recording Hermetech! How far away was Oliana from the KM84, also was a pop screen used? Thanks, Chris
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Post by Ward on May 31, 2019 8:21:14 GMT -6
[EDIT] Only mic used in the recording of this was one of my KM84s too: So one of your KM84s was the vocal mic also? WOW
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 31, 2019 12:43:07 GMT -6
I remember reading that Dark Side of the Moon was entirely recorded with the same 84.
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Post by chessparov on May 31, 2019 14:03:09 GMT -6
I re-checked, and the U47 was the primary vocal mic on that. Chris
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 16:55:55 GMT -6
Beautiful recording Hermetech! How far away was Oliana from the KM84, also was a pop screen used? Thanks, Chris Thank you! She was about 12 inches away, mic was maybe 3 inches lower than her mouth with capsule pointing up towards it, with a Rycote INV-7 pop shield. Vocal processing was Leveller in iZotope RX7 Advanced (it feels like cheating...) plus analogue chain for a bit of vibe (Chandler Germ Comp, Pullet EQ), plus Valhalla Vintage Verb with my own EMI Chamber style preset. The KM84s take the piss really, it's just too easy to get a great sound. No regrets on the crazy amount I have spent on them so far.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 17:03:07 GMT -6
[EDIT] Only mic used in the recording of this was one of my KM84s too: So one of your KM84s was the vocal mic also? WOW Yes, I literally only have a matched pair of KM84s now, AND NO OTHER MICS, and am wanting for nothing else (except perhaps a Coles 4038 ribbon one day, for the natural rolled off sound). The KM84s are the bomb I hoped they would be.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 9, 2019 20:07:32 GMT -6
I'm trippin' on the KM74 that's NOT sold on ebay at $970, been sitting there awhile. In Nashville. Buy it now or best offer, returns accepted.
Recent KM84 deals:
$939, very clean in Gotham box. 31 bids. $1450, consecutive serial # pair. $199, needed repair, makes no sound, looks good. $1355, pair, both need new bodies, maybe more. Returns allowed. $965. $975. $580.
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Post by chessparov on Oct 9, 2019 20:33:08 GMT -6
I have to wonder "how close" the Warm and AA offerings, are to a Neumann KM84... Chris
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Post by jamiesego on Oct 9, 2019 21:40:21 GMT -6
I have to wonder "how close" the Warm and AA offerings, are to a Neumann KM84... Chris Cloning anything in audio seems to be surprisingly hard but on the other hand a KM84 seems like it should be much easier to replicate than tube mics with unobtanium components.
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Post by thirdeye on Oct 9, 2019 21:53:07 GMT -6
I have an pretty old KM84 with a brand new capsule from Neumann (still have the vintage capsule too) and a Warm WA84. We very briefly compared them at the studio on acoustic guitar. To me the WA84 actually had a bigger bottom end. Their top end was similar. The mids on the KM84 were much more clear to me than the WA84. I think that's where the KM84 shines, the midrange clarity is amazing. I have no audio examples to share, just my opinion.
That being said, we rarely break out the KM84. Just on sources where it can't be damaged (no snare, no hi hat, etc.) . We use the WA84 on hi hat and snare with reckless abandon, and have been very happy with the results. I also have a pair of Soyuz SU-013 which are amazing on all the same sources.
Other small diaphragm condensers that we have and we love are AKG 451ebs and old tube AKG C61s. I keep those away from snare and hi hat too!!
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Post by chessparov on Oct 9, 2019 22:37:40 GMT -6
Yep. That's what I expected... That the Neumann would shine in the midrange clarity. Chris
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 10, 2019 6:00:29 GMT -6
You might find a “better” mic for a particular source, but the KM84 will never be the “wrong” mic on any source.
Yeah...and that midrange is where it’s at!
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Post by EmRR on Oct 10, 2019 7:32:06 GMT -6
Midrange is where my KM140's won (though I didn't like the rest of it), my KM131 wins, and even my KMr81i wins. It's da Neumann ding!
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Post by Ward on Oct 10, 2019 9:03:11 GMT -6
Jusr a small snippet of some guide guitar tracks on a co-write . . . Same moldy old KM 84 for all 3 guitar tracks. Into a VIntech X73i with a 2db of high end boost and a HPF set at 50hz Martin 00016 center, '73 Martin D28 left '73 Martin D18 high string right. If I didn't already own some KM84s, this would convince me to buy them. Martins and KM84s.mp3 (329.7 KB)
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 10, 2019 11:08:29 GMT -6
I have an pretty old KM84 with a brand new capsule from Neumann (still have the vintage capsule too) and a Warm WA84. We very briefly compared them at the studio on acoustic guitar. To me the WA84 actually had a bigger bottom end. Their top end was similar. The mids on the KM84 were much more clear to me than the WA84. I think that's where the KM84 shines, the midrange clarity is amazing. I have no audio examples to share, just my opinion. That being said, we rarely break out the KM84. Just on sources where it can't be damaged (no snare, no hi hat, etc.) . We use the WA84 on hi hat and snare with reckless abandon, and have been very happy with the results. I also have a pair of Soyuz SU-013 which are amazing on all the same sources. Other small diaphragm condensers that we have and we love are AKG 451ebs and old tube AKG C61s. I keep those away from snare and hi hat too!! I remember, capsules from Km84 were supposed to be compatible with Warm bodies. Is it the case ?
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 10, 2019 19:10:26 GMT -6
I have an pretty old KM84 with a brand new capsule from Neumann (still have the vintage capsule too) and a Warm WA84. We very briefly compared them at the studio on acoustic guitar. To me the WA84 actually had a bigger bottom end. Their top end was similar. The mids on the KM84 were much more clear to me than the WA84. I think that's where the KM84 shines, the midrange clarity is amazing. I have no audio examples to share, just my opinion. That being said, we rarely break out the KM84. Just on sources where it can't be damaged (no snare, no hi hat, etc.) . We use the WA84 on hi hat and snare with reckless abandon, and have been very happy with the results. I also have a pair of Soyuz SU-013 which are amazing on all the same sources. Other small diaphragm condensers that we have and we love are AKG 451ebs and old tube AKG C61s. I keep those away from snare and hi hat too!! I remember, capsules from Km84 were supposed to be compatible with Warm bodies. Is it the case ? The original design and prototypes were, but they dropped the feature and the production models are not compatible. Frankly I probably would have picked up a pair of the warms if they had been compatible.
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Post by thirdeye on Oct 11, 2019 7:28:36 GMT -6
I have an pretty old KM84 with a brand new capsule from Neumann (still have the vintage capsule too) and a Warm WA84. We very briefly compared them at the studio on acoustic guitar. To me the WA84 actually had a bigger bottom end. Their top end was similar. The mids on the KM84 were much more clear to me than the WA84. I think that's where the KM84 shines, the midrange clarity is amazing. I have no audio examples to share, just my opinion. That being said, we rarely break out the KM84. Just on sources where it can't be damaged (no snare, no hi hat, etc.) . We use the WA84 on hi hat and snare with reckless abandon, and have been very happy with the results. I also have a pair of Soyuz SU-013 which are amazing on all the same sources. Other small diaphragm condensers that we have and we love are AKG 451ebs and old tube AKG C61s. I keep those away from snare and hi hat too!! I remember, capsules from Km84 were supposed to be compatible with Warm bodies. Is it the case ? Yeah, I was hoping they were, but they are not. I'm crazy and I actually tested a KM84 capsule on the WA84 body. The threads don't line up so the mic probably doesn't "seal" correctly, but it worked! I didn't really notice it sounding remarkably better. Still pretty much sounded like the warm, bigger bottom end. I didn't try the warm capsule on the KM84.
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Post by yotonic on Oct 11, 2019 9:59:04 GMT -6
I have an extra KM84 that's in very good condition if anyone is looking. I own 7 of them and this one is an extra I bought from Gibran who is 'Music City Classic Studio Gear" on Reverb out of Nashville.
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Post by Bender on Oct 11, 2019 18:09:45 GMT -6
I have an extra KM84 that's in very good condition if anyone is looking. I own 7 of them and this one is an extra I bought from Gibran who is 'Music City Classic Studio Gear" on Reverb out of Nashville. Don't tempt me- I've been awfully good with my wallet this month and I've been saving up for either a coles or a pair of stager ribbons.....
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 12, 2019 12:51:34 GMT -6
I have an pretty old KM84 with a brand new capsule from Neumann (still have the vintage capsule too) and a Warm WA84. We very briefly compared them at the studio on acoustic guitar. To me the WA84 actually had a bigger bottom end. Their top end was similar. The mids on the KM84 were much more clear to me than the WA84. I think that's where the KM84 shines, the midrange clarity is amazing. I have no audio examples to share, just my opinion. That being said, we rarely break out the KM84. Just on sources where it can't be damaged (no snare, no hi hat, etc.) . We use the WA84 on hi hat and snare with reckless abandon, and have been very happy with the results. I also have a pair of Soyuz SU-013 which are amazing on all the same sources. Other small diaphragm condensers that we have and we love are AKG 451ebs and old tube AKG C61s. I keep those away from snare and hi hat too!! How does the off-axis response compare? That's one of the major things that makes the 84 such a great mic - the sound from the back and sides is the same as the on-axis sound. This is extremely difficult to achieve in a cardioid (or other directional pattern) mic.
The 84 is my go-to snare mic but there's no danger of it ever getting hit because I don't mic the snare from the top so the drummer can't hit it. Instead I mic the snare from the side approximately in the middle of the shell a couple of inches away and a couple of inches off the vent hole to avoid "chuffing". This has the added benefit of not needing a bottom mic, as you can adjust top to bottom balence by changing the height of the mic along the shell. Also, since the 84 has such great off-axis response I never need a hi-hat mic. That saves two mics and channels and cleans up a lot of phasing problems as well.
I'd never put an 84 where a stick might reach it.....
I also have a couple of 451EBs but they rarely get used anymore. I also have one of the new 451Bs, the best thing about that one is the lovely wooden box.
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