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Post by Quint on Apr 30, 2019 18:29:57 GMT -6
I've been looking at upgrading the psu(s) for my MCI console. I had heard that GRS (now GRS Studio Systems Technologies) had gone through a rough patch a while back, but that things had gotten better again.
I came across some new supplies specifically built for my console (416) on eBay that were a pretty good price and were being sold new by GRS on their eBay site.
What's the latest word on GRS? Are these a good buy or should I be looking at other options?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,952 
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Post by ericn on Apr 30, 2019 19:31:32 GMT -6
Before I spent any money on a new console PSU I would talk to Jim Williams or any decent tech about what they could build with PowerOne modules and what it would cost.
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Post by Quint on Apr 30, 2019 20:15:13 GMT -6
Before I spent any money on a new console PSU I would talk to Jim Williams or any decent tech about what they could build with PowerOne modules and what it would cost. My understanding is that the GRS PSUs use Power One. Is that correct? |
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Post by jrasia on Apr 30, 2019 20:16:34 GMT -6
I have a 16amp GRS linear supply for my highly modded Delta. It’s a beast! Built like a tank. Super high quality, professionally wired, and is totally trouble free and reliable. Took forever to get it though. Like 4 or 5 months.
That was back a few years ago when GRS was GRS and not bought out or changed ownership.
I think GRS guys became SST recently then I learned they have once again changed owners. Kinda weird. I know this because I have an order open with them for another console PSU. I made the mistake of trying one of their cheaper switch mode supplies. Did not play nice with my other console. GRS/SSL was accommodating though and they are building me an equivalent linear supply instead. It’s been a few months but I’m sure they’ll pull through.
Hope this helps
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Post by jrasia on Apr 30, 2019 20:19:51 GMT -6
Before I spent any money on a new console PSU I would talk to Jim Williams or any decent tech about what they could build with PowerOne modules and what it would cost. My understanding is that the GRS PSUs use Power One. Is that correct? They are kinda modded powerone modules. Appearently even the powerone modules are a generic type used by many suppliers and manufactures. |
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Post by Quint on Apr 30, 2019 20:45:15 GMT -6
I have a 16amp GRS linear supply for my highly modded Delta. It’s a beast! Built like a tank. Super high quality, professionally wired, and is totally trouble free and reliable. Took forever to get it though. Like 4 or 5 months. That was back a few years ago when GRS was GRS and not bought out or changed ownership. I think GRS guys became SST recently then I learned they have once again changed owners. Kinda weird. I know this because I have an order open with them for another console PSU. I made the mistake of trying one of their cheaper switch mode supplies. Did not play nice with my other console. GRS/SSL was accommodating though and they are building me an equivalent linear supply instead. It’s been a few months but I’m sure they’ll pull through. Hope this helps I actually think you were one of the people I originally came across that had some qualms about the delivery times from GRS. The MCI PSU I came across said it had no fans. I'm assuming the fanless models are the switching models? I like the idea of no fans, but I generally would prefer linear PSUs for this application, especially if the trade-off had to be linear/fans versus switching/no fans. A linear PSU with no fans would be awesome though. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 30, 2019 21:26:45 GMT -6
I have a 16amp GRS linear supply for my highly modded Delta. It’s a beast! Built like a tank. Super high quality, professionally wired, and is totally trouble free and reliable. Took forever to get it though. Like 4 or 5 months. That was back a few years ago when GRS was GRS and not bought out or changed ownership. I think GRS guys became SST recently then I learned they have once again changed owners. Kinda weird. I know this because I have an order open with them for another console PSU. I made the mistake of trying one of their cheaper switch mode supplies. Did not play nice with my other console. GRS/SSL was accommodating though and they are building me an equivalent linear supply instead. It’s been a few months but I’m sure they’ll pull through. Hope this helps I actually think you were one of the people I originally came across that had some qualms about the delivery times from GRS. The MCI PSU I came across said it had no fans. I'm assuming the fanless models are the switching models? I like the idea of no fans, but I generally would prefer linear PSUs for this application, especially if the trade-off had to be linear/fans versus switching/no fans. A linear PSU with no fans would be awesome though. Why would you assume that a switch mode supply would have no fan(s)? The switch mode supplies used in typical desktop computers have fans - gotta keep 'em cool somehow. The alternatives would be either liquid cooling or really humongous heat sinks. |
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Post by Quint on Apr 30, 2019 22:10:34 GMT -6
I actually think you were one of the people I originally came across that had some qualms about the delivery times from GRS. The MCI PSU I came across said it had no fans. I'm assuming the fanless models are the switching models? I like the idea of no fans, but I generally would prefer linear PSUs for this application, especially if the trade-off had to be linear/fans versus switching/no fans. A linear PSU with no fans would be awesome though. Why would you assume that a switch mode supply would have no fan(s)? The switch mode supplies used in typical desktop computers have fans - gotta keep 'em cool somehow. The alternatives would be either liquid cooling or really humongous heat sinks. Why would I assume that all of your posts are condescending in nature? Why? Because they typically are. There has been some discussion out there about how a non-linear PSU might be able to get away with not having fans because it puts off less heat versus a linear PSU. Maybe that's the case. Maybe it's not. I have no intention to get into the weeds with you on this. I heard about it and figured I would ask. That is all. |
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Post by Quint on Apr 30, 2019 22:40:08 GMT -6
So please, Johneppstein, don't derail my thread.
Now, back on topic.
GRS PSUs. Thoughts?
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Post by subspace on Apr 30, 2019 23:12:08 GMT -6
I use Acopian Gold Box 'A' power modules, fairly simple to configure a pair as a bipolar supply and add a couple single-ended units for lights/phantom/what-have-you... I was originally just using the bare modules mounted on a board, then found a rack unit at the local surplus electronics shop that had the same power modules I was using mounted up like the spendy 'custom PSU' builds, so I picked it up for $50.
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Post by jrasia on May 1, 2019 5:19:04 GMT -6
I can only add that the switch mode supplies had little fans built into each rail module. The switch mode was also outputting noise into some of my condenser mics when using phantom power. Very odd. The linear did not have this issue.
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 6:56:34 GMT -6
I can only add that the switch mode supplies had little fans built into each rail module. The switch mode was also outputting noise into some of my condenser mics when using phantom power. Very odd. The linear did not have this issue. Did your linear have a fan? |
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Post by jrasia on May 1, 2019 8:52:46 GMT -6
Yes and bigger. You don't want to starve your psu of air circulation, especially under constant heavy lead.
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 8:55:08 GMT -6
Yes and bigger. You don't want to starve your psu of air circulation, especially under constant heavy lead. My current PSUs have fans, so I was totally prepared to continue having fans in any new PSU I might buy. No fan noise to contend with would have been a bonus though. |
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 8:59:11 GMT -6
I use Acopian Gold Box 'A' power modules, fairly simple to configure a pair as a bipolar supply and add a couple single-ended units for lights/phantom/what-have-you... I was originally just using the bare modules mounted on a board, then found a rack unit at the local surplus electronics shop that had the same power modules I was using mounted up like the spendy 'custom PSU' builds, so I picked it up for $50. Acopian is a name that comes up often, but I just have way too many diy projects that need finishing and I either want something off the shelf or for someone to build me one. That GRS is ready to go. Quality is my only real concern as far as the GRS or any other PSU goes. |
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 9:01:33 GMT -6
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Post by jrasia on May 1, 2019 9:05:32 GMT -6
It is a switchmode
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 10:08:25 GMT -6
I was worried that might be the case. Are the linear supplies a lot more expensive? |
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 10:08:52 GMT -6
Before I spent any money on a new console PSU I would talk to Jim Williams or any decent tech about what they could build with PowerOne modules and what it would cost. I'll have to give Jim a call. |
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Post by jrasia on May 1, 2019 16:41:06 GMT -6
I was worried that might be the case. Are the linear supplies a lot more expensive? I think its about a $400 - $600 difference. Depends what you want |
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2019 18:56:56 GMT -6
Why would you assume that a switch mode supply would have no fan(s)? The switch mode supplies used in typical desktop computers have fans - gotta keep 'em cool somehow. The alternatives would be either liquid cooling or really humongous heat sinks. Why would I assume that all of your posts are condescending in nature? Why? Because they typically are. There has been some discussion out there about how a non-linear PSU might be able to get away with not having fans because it puts off less heat versus a linear PSU. Maybe that's the case. Maybe it's not. I have no intention to get into the weeds with you on this. I heard about it and figured I would ask. That is all. Please explain what exactly was condescending about what I said? I was merely pointing out that many (I'd say "most" but I don't know that for sure) larger switch-mode supplies use fans or some other method (water cooling, large heat sinks, etc.) of cooling. Perhaps I've missed something somewhere, but I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that switch mode suipplies are inherently cooler than linear supplies - if anything I'd assume the opposite, as I can't really recall ever seeing large amplifiers with linear (solid state rectified) supplies requiring fan cooling of the power supply - fan cooling of the audio power stage most certainly, but not the power supply.
Bear in mind that I've spent many, many years as a tech working on various types of amplifiers including lots of big power amps like Crowns, Phase Linears, BGWs, etc and I've never seen a linear power supply in any of those amps that required fan cooling. OTOH pretty much every deskitop PC I've ever seen requires a fan, even though those suppliers don't need to handle anywhare near the power of the supply in, for example, a BGW 750 or any other large PA amp.*
Like you, I simply thought that I'd ask about something that contradicts everything I've seen and experienced in nearly my entire working life.
You need to get the chip off your shoulder and stop reading things into people's posts that simply are not there.
Peace.
* - the one exception I can think of would be regulated supplies, butr there's no difference in heat output from a regulator attached to a linear supply or a switch mode supply. Regulators run hot because they work by discarding excess voltage by converting it into heat. That is regardless of ther type of supply feeding the regulator circuit.
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2019 19:06:38 GMT -6
I was worried that might be the case. Are the linear supplies a lot more expensive? Yes, they are. All that copper in the big power transformer is expensive, and those big filter caps aren't cheap, either. |
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Post by Quint on May 1, 2019 19:09:23 GMT -6
Does this forum not have an "ignore" function?
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2019 19:34:39 GMT -6
I can only add that the switch mode supplies had little fans built into each rail module. The switch mode was also outputting noise into some of my condenser mics when using phantom power. Very odd. The linear did not have this issue. Switch mode supplies generate radio frequency energy. To suppress RFI emissions it requires addition of filtering circuits. Since such circuits add expense to the supply this is frequently omitted to keep costs down, resulting in noise problems. |
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Post by johneppstein on May 1, 2019 19:46:29 GMT -6
Does this forum not have an "ignore" function? It has a "block" function, which I assume is the same thing.
Go to the profile of the target member. In the upper right corner, next to "follow member" and "send message" there is a little gear symbol with a down pointer next to it. Click on the pointer and the "block member" tab will appear.
I have nothing against you and do not understand what your problem is, but if this will stop you from harassing me, please, by all means, use it.
If it works like the "ignore" at GS it won't stop me from commenting on your posts but you won't be bothered by it.
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