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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 10:22:07 GMT -6
So if I wanted to try and correct the big 100hz dip in my room (starting around 50), should I focus on putting more absorption on the back wall? The one behind me as I’m mixing? I have homemade bass traps (6”) in all corners. Problem is it’s also an A-frame room, so walls on side are about four ft and then slant up to an apex. So many more reflective surfaces. I know I’m not ever going to get this perfect, but wondering if really focusing on the back wall would help.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 23, 2019 10:40:12 GMT -6
Well if it is a specific low freq you want to kill, I think you need a tuned Helmholtz resonator ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 23, 2019 10:43:32 GMT -6
ps have you put 6-12 inches across the peak of your A frame as it is just another corner ? You could make that peak work for you by putting a deep absorber right across so its no longer an A frame and slope it low above your mix position and going higher as it goes behind you towards the back wall?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 23, 2019 11:00:55 GMT -6
So if I wanted to try and correct the big 100hz dip in my room (starting around 50), should I focus on putting more absorption on the back wall? The one behind me as I’m mixing? I have homemade bass traps (6”) in all corners. Problem is it’s also an A-frame room, so walls on side are about four ft and then slant up to an apex. So many more reflective surfaces. I know I’m not ever going to get this perfect, but wondering if really focusing on the back wall would help. Give Headback a shout, your room is a bit tricky with that A Frame roof. The fact that side and roof surfaces are one and the same sort of throws most conventional wisdom. Plus Jeff’s rates are silly cheap and his advice keeps you from making expensive mistakes.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Apr 23, 2019 11:26:07 GMT -6
The speed of sound is 1,125 feet per second. You can do the math and figure out which parallel surfaces need your attention. For example, the wavelength of a 100Hz tone is 11.25 feet. 50Hz is 22.5 feet. Multiples of those numbers are also relevant. Just my very slightly informed suggestion!
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 11:27:57 GMT -6
I was told there would be no math...
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 23, 2019 11:31:41 GMT -6
So if I wanted to try and correct the big 100hz dip in my room (starting around 50), should I focus on putting more absorption on the back wall? The one behind me as I’m mixing? I have homemade bass traps (6”) in all corners. Problem is it’s also an A-frame room, so walls on side are about four ft and then slant up to an apex. So many more reflective surfaces. I know I’m not ever going to get this perfect, but wondering if really focusing on the back wall would help.
We talk a typical home recording room not build for making music, wooden floor maybe long or wide as high etc?
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 11:42:15 GMT -6
19'x10'. Walls on side are about 4'x8" high, then angle up to the apex...though there's an about 2ft wide ceiling where the angled walls angle up to... So, like this kinda /--\
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Apr 23, 2019 11:59:34 GMT -6
Just in case you haven't checked it out, Rod Gervais' book is an amazing resource for ideas to solve those problems. It was a big part of my planning before building my room.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 23, 2019 12:07:51 GMT -6
19'x20'. Walls on side are about 4'x8" high, then angle up to the apex...though there's an about 2ft wide ceiling where the angled walls angle up to... So, like this kinda / --\
Sounds like a small room it calls for trouble in the base range....
I gave up on those rooms and always go the LEDE way.
Dope Traps founded by the German Mastering AE Hannes Bieger....
Was a cool idea... and still works ....
LEDE was a standard in the 70s thats waht I read in one of my various room treatment books.
If that does not solves the problem to a good amount, there is also a way to build cheap base traps in all corners..
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Post by askomiko on Apr 23, 2019 12:43:24 GMT -6
Limp mass absorbers or helmholtz resonators tuned to the problem frequency would be the most efficient at low frequencies, but also most difficult to build. Could you try a PSI Avaa?
Of course, the back wall is hugely important piece of the sound quality puzzle, so that's a good thing to do anyways.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2019 12:55:10 GMT -6
Keep in mind that 6" absorbers barely reach down into the bass ranges. Straddled across corners they certainly work better but I'd go for full on superchunks in the corners and maybe move your 6" traps to other spots. When you start talking about depths greater that 8-10" you don't need super dense material like owens 703, and in fact the denser material can be counter productive because it restricts airflow so much. I used Roxul Safe N Sound, which I found at Lowes, for some 11" bass traps I put in the corners and they worked great.
Keep in mind that loading your room with massive bass trapping can kill your high end (a problem I'm dealing with now), so you need to keep into account how the full spectrum is going to sound.
One hard lesson I've learned is that its very hard to piece together room treatment if you don't have a cohesive master plan. So yeah, call Jeff. I've never used him but his reputation speaks for itself.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2019 12:57:50 GMT -6
19'x20'. Walls on side are about 4'x8" high, then angle up to the apex...though there's an about 2ft wide ceiling where the angled walls angle up to... So, like this kinda / --\
Sounds like a small room it calls for trouble in the base range....
I gave up on those rooms and always go the LEDE way.
Those are the same Ikea bookcases I used for my DIY bass traps! They work awesome and Roxul sells Safe n Sound insulation that just happens to be exactly 36" wide, the perfect width for those bookcases!
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Post by bradd on Apr 23, 2019 13:34:34 GMT -6
I second Eric's recommendation that you call Jeff Hedback. He is very reasonable, and handles all of that pesky math that I can't do. He will also keep you from wasting a lot of time trying things that may not work.
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Post by stormymondays on Apr 23, 2019 15:43:33 GMT -6
Limp mass absorbers or helmholtz resonators tuned to the problem frequency would be the most efficient at low frequencies, but also most difficult to build. Could you try a PSI Avaa? Of course, the back wall is hugely important piece of the sound quality puzzle, so that's a good thing to do anyways. The PSI could be a cool solution and I’m sure you can try before you buy somehow: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/psi-audio-avaa-c20
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 23, 2019 15:45:24 GMT -6
I second Eric's recommendation that you call Jeff Hedback. He is very reasonable, and handles all of that pesky math that I can't do. He will also keep you from wasting a lot of time trying things that may not work. I mean, I don’t have a big budget or anything. Wonder if he does just consulting?
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2019 16:04:21 GMT -6
He Does
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Post by javamad on Apr 23, 2019 16:29:59 GMT -6
You could try filling that A frame with a lot of rockwool. Remember sounds goes in 3D .. especially the lower frequencies so a big bass trap above your head is a great way to save floor space.
You could even buy a load and leave it in the plastic rolls and just place it up there to see what effect you will get. For the low end the plastic covering the rolls will be transparent. If the experiment doesn't work you can just return the rolls unused :-)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 23, 2019 16:54:03 GMT -6
I second Eric's recommendation that you call Jeff Hedback. He is very reasonable, and handles all of that pesky math that I can't do. He will also keep you from wasting a lot of time trying things that may not work. I mean, I don’t have a big budget or anything. Wonder if he does just consulting? The hardest part is going to be drawing your room in sketch up! Seriously though your room is small and a non traditional shape so somebody who knows the math is going to be a big help. He can also give you a long term game plan so you can make that room sound like you spent really big bucks.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2019 17:29:54 GMT -6
You could try filling that A frame with a lot of rockwool. Remember sounds goes in 3D .. especially the lower frequencies so a big bass trap above your head is a great way to save floor space. You could even buy a load and leave it in the plastic rolls and just place it up there to see what effect you will get. For the low end the plastic covering the rolls will be transparent. If the experiment doesn't work you can just return the rolls unused :-) Thats a great idea. Pretty much you cant go wrong with filling the ceiling cavity with insulation. And very DIY friendly.
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Post by reddirt on Apr 23, 2019 18:02:16 GMT -6
Yes , you can't go wrong filling the ceiling cavity but thats a lot of work for what may be not much reward - I would go the Hedback route before I did anything.
I speak from some experience, chased my tail every which way including wall traps, corner traps, filling the ceiling apex, a cloud , slot resonators, limp mass absorbers and came out thinking that knowledgeable advice would have been my best friend.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by cyrano on Apr 24, 2019 2:35:50 GMT -6
In my mind, you need to measure. I see people spending lots of money because they don't know what they're doing. Would you try to mix, or record a song that way?
If you don't want to spend the time to learn how to measure and learn how to read the graphs, hire someone to do it. It'll be a lot cheaper than throwing some stuff in areas that might not need treatment, just because someone on the internets told you, without even hearing your room...
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 24, 2019 5:18:05 GMT -6
I second Eric's recommendation that you call Jeff Hedback. He is very reasonable, and handles all of that pesky math that I can't do. He will also keep you from wasting a lot of time trying things that may not work. I mean, I don’t have a big budget or anything. Wonder if he does just consulting? If you dont have big budget the broadband base traps behind your speakers from bottom to top is the way to go. Its cheap and worked in all rooms I had...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 24, 2019 7:25:22 GMT -6
In my mind, you need to measure. I see people spending lots of money because they don't know what they're doing. Would you try to mix, or record a song that way? If you don't want to spend the time to learn how to measure and learn how to read the graphs, hire someone to do it. It'll be a lot cheaper than throwing some stuff in areas that might not need treatment, just because someone on the internets told you, without even hearing your room... Jeff will have John do measurements, the thing is measurements are useless without somebody who really understands them. Part of why I evangelize hiring Jeff is the concept of efficiency, there are many inexpensive treatments that might work, the key is might it’s more efficient to pay someone who has the understanding and has worked in real world rooms who can get you there quicker and without wasting money. Jeff and I are not in agreement on everything, I’m a speaker guy he’s a room guy, Jeff convinced BradD to buy this gigantic single sub. I said smaller stereo subs, these days Brad seams to agree I was probably right ( besides if I had been wrong 2 smaller subs could have been used as a large mono sub. Still for audiophiles, recording, or just about any space I get asked about the first words out of my mouth are “ call Headback “, yet to hear somebody say it wasn’t worth it. Note the author of this post lives in his second untreated space because he shares it with a wife who at this point in her words “ pays the fucking rent.” The author has become accustomed to a certain lifestyle and a well treated room isn’t worth giving that up.
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Post by cyrano on Apr 24, 2019 9:25:52 GMT -6
I'm lucky to have a friend who is an acoustician and a speaker guy... Most of his work is measuring speaker prototypes for manufacturers.
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