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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 25, 2019 11:06:45 GMT -6
Just mixed a song I’m really happy with, but feeling like it drags a bit. It’s at 84 BPM and I’d like to bump it up to maybe 86 BPM. I tried the vari speed feature in Logic, but although it felt better, with all the plugins I had going, I was getting drop outs. Plus, of course, it changes the pitch just like tape. The pitch change doesn’t bother me THAT much, but it’s not preferable.
I was thinking of Vari Speeding the Stereo mix file, but figured I’d ask around as to what would be the least destructive way to approach this. I assume Vari Speeding in digital will change the Sample Rate, so then I’d have to SRC. Grrr.
Thanks!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 25, 2019 11:40:14 GMT -6
Lots of options to rewrite the file header to a different sample rate, maybe the easiest thing. Definitely change the mix file after it's printed.
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 25, 2019 12:34:38 GMT -6
Lots of options to rewrite the file header to a different sample rate, maybe the easiest thing. Definitely change the mix file after it's printed. Could you expound on this? How would I change the file header so the file would change 2 BPM’s? Thanks! |
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Post by drbill on Mar 25, 2019 12:39:00 GMT -6
Pitch N Time Pro is the best tool I've ever found for doing this. You can keep the pitch the same, and speed up, or change pitch, or both.
Fairly pricey, but if you only need to do it once, find someone who has it and have them change it for you.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 25, 2019 15:21:50 GMT -6
Lots of options to rewrite the file header to a different sample rate, maybe the easiest thing. Definitely change the mix file after it's printed. Could you expound on this? How would I change the file header so the file would change 2 BPM’s? Thanks! You wouldn't be able to base a sample rate change on BPM, it would be what it would be— e.g. the difference between 44.1 and 48 will be fixed BPM wise. |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 25, 2019 15:56:02 GMT -6
Lots of options to rewrite the file header to a different sample rate, maybe the easiest thing. Definitely change the mix file after it's printed. Could you expound on this? How would I change the file header so the file would change 2 BPM’s? Thanks! Been awhile, but memory says you hack the file header to a different rate, and it then plays at a different speed in your DAW. Then convert that to a standard sample rate, and you've got speed change. There's no easy control, you'd have to do the math or trial and error. I use DP, and it'll let you do this. Soundhack for Mac will let you do it too. |
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 25, 2019 16:34:25 GMT -6
Could you expound on this? How would I change the file header so the file would change 2 BPM’s? Thanks! Been awhile, but memory says you hack the file header to a different rate, and it then plays at a different speed in your DAW. Then convert that to a standard sample rate, and you've got speed change. There's no easy control, you'd have to do the math or trial and error. I use DP, and it'll let you do this. Soundhack for Mac will let you do it too. Cool trick, thanks! |
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 25, 2019 18:13:45 GMT -6
So, I didn’t realize the the default for Varispeed in Logic changes the speed but keeps the pitch the same, hence the artifacts I was hearing. Using classic tape style Varispeed, I Sped it up to 1.5 percent which changed the tempo from 84 to 85.260 BPM and it worked like a charm and I barely notice the change in pitch! Sweet! Thanks guys!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 25, 2019 19:28:10 GMT -6
So, I didn’t realize the the default for Varispeed in Logic changes the speed but keeps the pitch the same Sure, I guess lots of DAW's default to that instead of the expected old style change. Glad you found it. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 25, 2019 20:25:07 GMT -6
I barely notice the change in pitch! Sweet! Thanks guys! But all your friends with perfect pitch will be hating you.  |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 25, 2019 21:12:51 GMT -6
I barely notice the change in pitch! Sweet! Thanks guys! But all your friends with perfect pitch will be hating you. Shock treat them first with The Shaggs LP, or the first Birthday Party LP. |
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Post by donr on Mar 25, 2019 21:21:27 GMT -6
Could you expound on this? How would I change the file header so the file would change 2 BPM’s? Thanks! Been awhile, but memory says you hack the file header to a different rate, and it then plays at a different speed in your DAW. Then convert that to a standard sample rate, and you've got speed change. There's no easy control, you'd have to do the math or trial and error. I use DP, and it'll let you do this. Soundhack for Mac will let you do it too. DP's latest time and pitch tools are really good as I've used them. No way to directly input BPM change AFAIK, but you can shorten a small stereo region by a graphic % and see if it works before doing the whole track, which will take some computational time. I imagine all this capability is 'way better than it was just a few years ago. Sounds fine. In the day, it was fairly common to adjust track tempos mastering by vari-speeding the tape machine when disk cutting. If you try to play along with a song and realize it's sharp to your instrument, it's one of those tunes that were mastered faster. I doubt if people make tracks slower. I never have. |
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Post by mitchkricun on Mar 26, 2019 6:59:34 GMT -6
I barely notice the change in pitch! Sweet! Thanks guys! But all your friends with perfect pitch will be hating you. What’s a few semitones between friends? |
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 27, 2019 19:31:41 GMT -6
Could you expound on this? How would I change the file header so the file would change 2 BPM’s? Thanks! You wouldn't be able to base a sample rate change on BPM, it would be what it would be— e.g. the difference between 44.1 and 48 will be fixed BPM wise. I haven't done this myself, but I'm pretty sure that if you know how to monkey with the file header you can do incremental SR changes.
EDIT: I see I've been well beaten to it...
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 27, 2019 19:34:54 GMT -6
But all your friends with perfect pitch will be hating you. What’s a few semitones between friends? Cents. |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 27, 2019 21:05:17 GMT -6
Cubase has a great feature that can change the tempo without changing the pitch. Logic and Protools do not?
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Post by hio on Mar 28, 2019 4:15:26 GMT -6
Cubase has a great feature that can change the tempo without changing the pitch. Logic and Protools do not? Reaper does this, or you could just turbo charge your HDD spindle platter drive or maybe use a little nitrous oxide with your SSD. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2019 9:47:45 GMT -6
Cubase has a great feature that can change the tempo without changing the pitch. Logic and Protools do not? Yeah they do. But IMO, the best tool is Pitch N Time Pro. It does it better, with less artifacts. |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 28, 2019 11:08:15 GMT -6
Cubase has a great feature that can change the tempo without changing the pitch. Logic and Protools do not? Yeah they do. But IMO, the best tool is Pitch N Time Pro. It does it better, with less artifacts. For my uses (usually tweaking tempos a smaller amount) I've had no Cubase issues with artifacts. Pitch n Time sounds great. But $800 for software seems extreme in this current market. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2019 11:51:47 GMT -6
Yeah they do. But IMO, the best tool is Pitch N Time Pro. It does it better, with less artifacts. For my uses (usually tweaking tempos a smaller amount) I've had no Cubase issues with artifacts. Pitch n Time sounds great. But $800 for software seems extreme in this current market. Tweaking tempo's is no big deal if they are minimal and if you don't mind skewing the pitch. But for feature films, and other high end applications that sometimes require pretty difficult pitch / tempo changes, I feel an $800 plugin is necessary. YMMV of course. That plug has made me 10X's the amount it cost me. |
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Post by lpedrum on Mar 28, 2019 12:32:41 GMT -6
For my uses (usually tweaking tempos a smaller amount) I've had no Cubase issues with artifacts. Pitch n Time sounds great. But $800 for software seems extreme in this current market. Tweaking tempo's is no big deal if they are minimal and if you don't mind skewing the pitch. But for feature films, and other high end applications that sometimes require pretty difficult pitch / tempo changes, I feel an $800 plugin is necessary. YMMV of course. That plug has made me 10X's the amount it cost me. Totally get that Bill. You'd have to admit though at that price Pitch n' Time is definitely aimed at post production folks etc. and probably not the majority of RGOers. My needs in record production for time correction are a handful of times a year. By the way, the Cubase time stretch feature does not affect the pitch. |
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Post by popmann on Mar 28, 2019 13:11:47 GMT -6
Cubase can go either way in terms of pitch. If you set it to “tape” mode in the Pool, it will change the pitch and time together.
FWIW, maybe its my having done that for years with tape decks....but, that sounds more natural to me. Not immediately—its a more onvious change, but Ive found changing a mix bpm without changing pitch gets a little “Pet Semetary”—first listen back you think “brilliant”....but, as you sit in mastering with it, it just seems...off....wrong....again, maybe its my being used to the effect of tape varispeed, but....
Id also point out, youre better to do it in the mix than mastering, IME, where you can compensate for the change in the bottom frequencies.
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2019 20:21:23 GMT -6
Yes. Pitch or Time correcting BEFORE you mix is far preferable, and PnT actually has settings that are more appropriate for transient type tracks vs. more fluid based tracks - so you can customize if you're on individual tracks. PnT is heavily entrenched in the post production market, and like I said, IME, it has the least amount of "artifacts" of anything out there. if you're time compressing VO or Narr for a film, you can't have the slightest bit of "electronic artifacts" in the end product. Just can't. As a music editor, it was solid gold. Being able to change the tempo over various spots in the song, and doing "key changes" to get between cues gracefully. Pure gold....
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 30, 2019 14:04:52 GMT -6
Wavelab pro has by far the best tempo adjustment I've heard.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 30, 2019 16:40:10 GMT -6
Provided you are working at 88.2/96k or convert up and back, Waves Soundshifter is the best I've heard other than allowing the pitch to change. This surprised me because it's really old.
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