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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2018 17:19:45 GMT -6
I couldn’t have said that better: but have no fucking idea what it means !
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Post by javamad on Dec 27, 2018 5:41:15 GMT -6
I loudness-matched the two Kat files and when switching between them not only does the bass come up a bit, the drums come forward too. The top end smooths out a bit to my ears too. Interesting.
(Listening on AKG 712 Pro's with Sonarworks cos I am away on holiday :-) )
I was looking at the Convert AD+ as an addition to my BF Apollo's for the return from my summing box. One of the issues I have with the Apollo converters is that the output of my RND 5060, when pushed, clips the Apollo converters like crazy and I have to back it all off ... so it would be nice to have the final A/D to be able to handle full levels to get the best out of the RND 5060 where the material warrants pushing all those transformers.
What I have not figured out yet is how to hook it up and whether it would make any sense to work in 96k for example after my summing, if the recording project is at 48k for example ... if I want to do that then I have to have another rig to have a different sample rate ... this is starting to get complicated :-D
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 27, 2018 6:26:09 GMT -6
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Post by javamad on Dec 27, 2018 7:17:28 GMT -6
The convert + would automagically switchover to what sample rate you send it. link to manual set up diagrams at end: dangerousmusic.com/product/convert-ad-plus/downloads middle centre right Yeah, I can see that I could do 16 analog outs from my two Apollos to the RND 5060, then send the stereo mix to the Convert 2+ Analog in and send the ADAT out from the Convert 2+ back in to ADAT in(channel 1-2) on one of the Apollos and track that back into my project as the mix (at the moment I am tracking the mix back into two line inputs of the Apollo) ... that would definitely be an upgrade in conversion for the final mix down. That would all have to be at the same sample rate as it's in the same Logic project. I could probably clock the Apollo's off the Convert 2+ too and see if it works better. I can see myself doing something like this down the line ... but at the moment I am spending $$ on mics, which are probably making more of a difference to the overall sound than 2 bus converters will. (Just took delivery of an AR-51 and an SA-47)
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Post by notneeson on Dec 27, 2018 11:10:10 GMT -6
The convert + would automagically switchover to what sample rate you send it. link to manual set up diagrams at end: dangerousmusic.com/product/convert-ad-plus/downloads middle centre right Yeah, I can see that I could do 16 analog outs from my two Apollos to the RND 5060, then send the stereo mix to the Convert 2+ Analog in and send the ADAT out from the Convert 2+ back in to ADAT in(channel 1-2) on one of the Apollos and track that back into my project as the mix (at the moment I am tracking the mix back into two line inputs of the Apollo) ... that would definitely be an upgrade in conversion for the final mix down. That would all have to be at the same sample rate as it's in the same Logic project. I could probably clock the Apollo's off the Convert 2+ too and see if it works better. I can see myself doing something like this down the line ... but at the moment I am spending $$ on mics, which are probably making more of a difference to the overall sound than 2 bus converters will. (Just took delivery of an AR-51 and an SA-47) I would at least try a pair of line level pads if the gain staging issue you are having can’t be addressed at the RND. Seems like a strange reason for buying converters (which you may still love, I realize).
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Post by guitfiddler on Dec 27, 2018 14:10:13 GMT -6
I loudness-matched the two Kat files and when switching between them not only does the bass come up a bit, the drums come forward too. The top end smooths out a bit to my ears too. Interesting. (Listening on AKG 712 Pro's with Sonarworks cos I am away on holiday :-) ) I was looking at the Convert AD+ as an addition to my BF Apollo's for the return from my summing box. One of the issues I have with the Apollo converters is that the output of my RND 5060, when pushed, clips the Apollo converters like crazy and I have to back it all off ... so it would be nice to have the final A/D to be able to handle full levels to get the best out of the RND 5060 where the material warrants pushing all those transformers. What I have not figured out yet is how to hook it up and whether it would make any sense to work in 96k for example after my summing, if the recording project is at 48k for example ... if I want to do that then I have to have another rig to have a different sample rate ... this is starting to get complicated :-D There is another way. Analog Apollo’s =>RN5060=>ConvertAD+=>USB computer. In fact, some are saying the usb direct output of the ConvertAD+ sounds better. I have not had the time to test it out myself, but you can also look at upgrading to the Apollo X’s. Just a thought...
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Post by javamad on Dec 27, 2018 17:52:13 GMT -6
There is another way. Analog Apollo’s =>RN5060=>ConvertAD+=>USB computer. In fact, some are saying the usb direct output of the ConvertAD+ sounds better. I have not had the time to test it out myself, but you can also look at upgrading to the Apollo X’s. Just a thought... I am on a mid-2012 Mac book pro so I suppose I could try to create an aggregate I/O device ... However I would have to question how a USB output could sound better ... from my understanding the A to D conversion would happen in the same part of the Convert AD+ no matter what the output and it would either stream the bits via ADAT, USB or AES ... but they would be the same bits. The conversion is done. Maybe some difference was due to clocking setups on ADAT not being as simple as a single USB stereo channel pair? Thanks for the input.
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Post by guitfiddler on Dec 27, 2018 18:19:54 GMT -6
I'm sorry, maybe that was the D/A Convert- USB vs. AES/EBU. I know you could get a better result with the Apollo X. I would give that USB a try though, wouldn't hurt, you never know. They say Digital is Digital, but even when I was running my Lavry DA 10. I noticed a big difference between the spdif vs. AES/EBU, and supposedly that was the same thing. I realize it's DA instead of AD, but I can bet you will hear a difference.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 27, 2018 20:33:49 GMT -6
I don't understand something. In the video, Fab Dupont suggests using the convert + to track with. How can you track using a DAC. Analogue must be converted to digital before a DAC can do anything, no?
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Post by notneeson on Dec 27, 2018 20:50:39 GMT -6
I don't understand something. In the video, Fab Dupont suggests using the convert + to track with. How can you track using a DAC. Analogue must be converted to digital before a DAC can do anything, no? It's an AD. It's called the Convert AD+.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 27, 2018 21:14:59 GMT -6
You can actually have 2 sets of inputs plugged in the back and switch between then with a front channel button.
So for example I have 2 channels of neve clone and 4 channels of API. I could have 2 neve and 2 API pre outs hardwired into the convert plus and or post comp to and have 4 money channels one bottom away.
It seems very well thought out : like all dangerous stuff !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 27, 2018 21:42:12 GMT -6
Yikes, what the heck was I thinking.. thanks notneeson.I saw Convert 2+ in the subject, and figured it was a DAC.
So, let's reverse my question, say tracks are finished and you're mixing, how would you go about including the Convert + ?
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Post by guitfiddler on Dec 27, 2018 23:45:06 GMT -6
My post didn’t help if you read it. I was discussing A/D first then switched to the D/A. Regarding usb vs. Aes/Ebu. It’s actually kind of confusing now that I read it over...lol
The Convert 2 A/D+ is the A/D The Convert is the D/A
I was reading an interesting thread on another site and it was concerning the usb vs. Aes/Ebu. Some were saying the aggregate device setup using usb sounded better than using the Aes/Ebu on the D/A. I thought maybe this is the same on the A/D as well. I’m not sure because I have not tried this, however you know how it is, you never know until you try it and hear it for yourself.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 28, 2018 9:36:13 GMT -6
ahh.. I see now, I thought you were discussing the same piece. That's a pretty expensive group of boxes. I just saw a demo of SSL's Fusion, which is a complete analogue 2 bus channel strip with all sorts of potential. It gets confusing as to which combination of things would sound best. The SSL makes perfect sense, it's an analogue 2 bus with all the basics in it.
Jerome, I'm confused, when you processed kcat's file, you used the Convert 2 + A/D ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2018 10:05:03 GMT -6
Yes that is what he did.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 28, 2018 11:04:03 GMT -6
So your finished tracks was somehow put into the Convert 2 + A/D.
Since it's an analogue to digital converter, how was your digital track converted to analogue to feed the A/D of the Convert 2 + A/D?
The A/D can't be a D/A I assume..
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Post by mulmany on Dec 28, 2018 12:12:06 GMT -6
Jerome uses a Motu 16a, Project S2, and another DA I believe.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 28, 2018 12:38:50 GMT -6
The effect of the DA is very minimal here, I’d venture.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2018 15:44:15 GMT -6
He would have had to play my track out of one of his DA them into the convert AD, for the track to pass through the convert plus AD.
So, normally, that would be the box you recorded through to begin with, but if you get the C+, you can record through it’s converters, then play that track out of your other interfaces DA, then back through the C+ AD for mastering.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 28, 2018 15:53:48 GMT -6
Look at this way: in the old days you would have to capture the sound coming off the desk to your 2 Track. Could be a Studer. Or a frickin Masterlink.
Any way you cut it, the Convert+ is the 2 track capture in Jerome's scenario. I believe he uses a summing mixer so the round trip is not optional like it would be if you were ITB.
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 30, 2018 1:46:37 GMT -6
Look at this way: in the old days you would have to capture the sound coming off the desk to your 2 Track. Could be a Studer. Or a frickin Masterlink. Any way you cut it, the Convert+ is the 2 track capture in Jerome's scenario. I believe he uses a summing mixer so the round trip is not optional like it would be if you were ITB. Bingo The money in what I do is on that mix buss. Dropping high dollar into it makes sense for me because that's my gig. But, it does do some really amazing things to sweeten what's already mighty succulent.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2018 6:58:58 GMT -6
As above, but also find attractive fab’s reference to using it while tracking of course for the. Inversion, but also as secret sauce, presence, trannies , just to see, if you can dial the sound in at source and using the chain: old school but contemporary tools.
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Post by roundbadge on Dec 31, 2018 1:55:43 GMT -6
Ive been using the Ad+ for a couple weeks now.digging it for mix downs[console] but not with the Transformer engaged.losses energy @ 40hz and below.I guess you could compensate with eq before it but I'm not feeling that.the Burl Ad would tighten things up but I never heard a roll off per say. down the line for other styles I could see the TX/enhance thing as a useful tool for coloring. tracking has been kinda fun to mess with the processing but in very small amounts.too much enhance can sound over cooked later when mixing.still won't engage it when tracking low end instruments though. clipping it on mix input with guard engaged works as advertised although I'm not really doing the clipping thing on mix down.
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 31, 2018 18:00:01 GMT -6
Which is probably why I dig those trannies so much. I roll off at 38hz at least, on every mix. When I hit the button I feel it tighten and solidify. I still get plenty of sub too. Last mix I turned in they wanted some of the sub out.
If I were doing like hip hop or something I'd still keep those in and juice the Pultecs at 20hz to slam up against that sucker even harder. They should had named this thing "The Einstein" because of how much information it'll soak up and not one bit of truncation.
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Post by roundbadge on Dec 31, 2018 19:17:59 GMT -6
Which is probably why I dig those trannies so much. I roll off at 38hz at least, on every mix. When I hit the button I feel it tighten and solidify. I still get plenty of sub too. Last mix I turned in they wanted some of the sub out. If I were doing like hip hop or something I'd still keep those in and juice the Pultecs at 20hz to slam up against that sucker even harder. They should had named this thing "The Einstein" because of how much information it'll soak up and not one bit of truncation. Yeah I think the Tranny will come in handy eventually. I sure don't miss having to input Gain stage that B2.
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