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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 12, 2018 19:53:12 GMT -6
In case anyone is interested. I think both versions sound great. No reason not to work with either. Matched settings on both. The comp was difficult because it's about 10 db different on the threshold between C1 and UAD. Slightly different sounds, both seem SSL'ly to me not that I have used a real one or anything. They smack in different ways. Kinda neat. I would say the C1 is a little more open in the top. Now, I don't really know what EQ version Softube modeled, but I chose the black knob in the UAD setup. *EDIT - I just read in the manual that it is indeed the black knob EQ. The UAD isn't as bright at the same settings to me. The UAD may smack a little harder on the comp (I matched settings as best I could).
*EDIT - BX SSL E now added to clips
*EDIT - Waves SSL E now added to clips
So anyway. Here is a little demo.
Waves SSL E Rock
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 12, 2018 21:58:27 GMT -6
I liked the Softube a little more. It glued a bit better I think. UAD was a little thinner. I'm on headphones, I'll double check on my monitors tomorrow.
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Post by ragan on Nov 12, 2018 22:02:35 GMT -6
I prefer the Softube one too.
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Post by lcr on Nov 13, 2018 5:58:48 GMT -6
This is great! And chance you could download the new Plugin Alliance 4k E demo and add it to the comparision?
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Post by sirthought on Nov 13, 2018 8:26:04 GMT -6
I thought they both sounded good, but I'd pick the UAD. The C1 is a bit more open sounding like you said.
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Post by BradM on Nov 13, 2018 10:56:16 GMT -6
I think I kind of like the less openess of the UAD version here.
I think it might be interesting to hear a version where you matched not the knob settings, but the knob results. It's very possible that the 2:00 on the UAD knob is equivalent to the 1:30 setting on the Soft Tube knob, and vice versa. Obviously this would take a lot more effort. But there are always tolerances from unit to unit and we could very well be hearing those modeled differences. Brainwork includes this variation in their version via their TMT process (Tolerance Modeling Technology...I think). I got a demo from Dirk once and was blown away by how different the entire plugin channel sounded every time he changed the channel number.
Thanks for sharing!
Brad
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 13, 2018 11:12:14 GMT -6
This is great! And chance you could download the new Plugin Alliance 4k E demo and add it to the comparision? Download a channel strip plugin to try out? WHERE DO I SIGN!
I'll work on it today.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 13, 2018 11:14:13 GMT -6
I think I kind of like the less openess of the UAD version here. I think it might be interesting to hear a version where you matched not the knob settings, but the knob results. It's very possible that the 2:00 on the UAD knob is equivalent to the 1:30 setting on the Soft Tube knob, and vice versa. Obviously this would take a lot more effort. But there are always tolerances from unit to unit and we could very well be hearing those modeled differences. Brainwork includes this variation in their version via their TMT process (Tolerance Modeling Technology...I think). I got a demo from Dirk once and was blown away by how different the entire plugin channel sounded every time he changed the channel number. Thanks for sharing! Brad
Well, that is true and I wonder what the numbers really mean. What I did was press the UI button in Reaper so I could see the UAD numbers and not the knobs. This way I could set the Q to .5, db to 2.5, comp ratio to 4.00 etc etc. So I in fact went by the numbers(Console 1 screen goes by numbers as well), however I'm not totally sure that really means anything either... I suppose it should.
Will try the Bx today! I thought their Neve was great.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 13, 2018 11:25:17 GMT -6
I have the BX SSL 4000 E. I had their original version as well. For drums, I don't feel a need for anything more. I have other options I like better on other acoustic sources but all the Brainworx consoles are great. I also own just about every Softube plugin as well and use them a lot. I wish their SSL emulation would have been available without Console 1. I might have bought it instead, but I am very happy with what I have now and don't feel a need to get another SSL 4000 plugin. oh... I also have the Wave version but it doesn't get much use anymore. I prefer the bx SSL.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 13, 2018 11:48:00 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 13, 2018 11:56:33 GMT -6
I thought the C1 had less bottom than the other two.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 13, 2018 12:06:08 GMT -6
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Post by BradM on Nov 13, 2018 13:14:16 GMT -6
Well, that is true and I wonder what the numbers really mean. What I did was press the UI button in Reaper so I could see the UAD numbers and not the knobs. This way I could set the Q to .5, db to 2.5, comp ratio to 4.00 etc etc. So I in fact went by the numbers(Console 1 screen goes by numbers as well), however I'm not totally sure that really means anything either... I suppose it should.
Will try the Bx today! I thought their Neve was great.
Unfortunately, I don't think the numbers mean much other than it's what the programmers want the DAW to see. I think you'd really have to break out some test gear to see if you are truly getting apples to apples. Who wants to do that when there's music to be made? I really like the concept of the Soft Tube console and could see myself preferring that even if I thought one of the other emulations is slightly better sounding. For me personally, workflow is huge. Brad |
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 13, 2018 13:19:12 GMT -6
Well, that is true and I wonder what the numbers really mean. What I did was press the UI button in Reaper so I could see the UAD numbers and not the knobs. This way I could set the Q to .5, db to 2.5, comp ratio to 4.00 etc etc. So I in fact went by the numbers(Console 1 screen goes by numbers as well), however I'm not totally sure that really means anything either... I suppose it should.
Will try the Bx today! I thought their Neve was great.
Unfortunately, I don't think the numbers mean much other than it's what the programmers want the DAW to see. I think you'd really have to break out some test gear to see if you are truly getting apples to apples. Who wants to do that when there's music to be made? I really like the concept of the Soft Tube console and could see myself preferring that even if I thought one of the other emulations is slightly better sounding. For me personally, workflow is huge. Brad That's a bit of what I was concerned would be the case. It would be fun to get test equipment out but I think even then I wouldn't be able to match them 100%. I think this is kind a decent practical test of generalized sounds here but not much more. I think they all sound great in their own way. I'd love the Brainworx. I almost bought up the Bx SSL G at $150 the other day.
I'm with you on the C1. I think it sounds very good if not different to other emulations, which means combined with the workflow, it's totally worth it, to me.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 13, 2018 13:34:55 GMT -6
I thought the UAD and the Softube had more vibe than the other two. I was a little bit unimpressed with the BX version.
The softube was a little bit wider sounding and a little more smooth
UAD is good but a little more blunt sounding
obviously you could mix a record with either one
I'm a bit biased because I own UAD but now I'm considering Softube as a native option so thanks for the shootout
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Post by joseph on Nov 13, 2018 13:35:17 GMT -6
I don't like doing shootouts but I will say that when I demoed the Brainworx extensively vs the UAD SSL MKII, only the UAD had that kind of grainy dry mid quality (and I also think the less open sound Brad describes) of an SSL channel, definition to the snare skin, and tightening of the low end and the whole synergy with the dynamics was very impressive. Closest other thing I tried in terms of character was Duende, but even that was kind of 2D in comparison.
Even though the Brainworx could be preferred for sonic reasons (it sounded bigger and less etched), I thought the UAD on several tracks actually sounded much more like the records I know that were done on SSL, whereas the Brainworx sounded good but more generic personality-wise.
Too bad the UAD uses so much DSP.
I also compared the UAD bus compressor vs my gold can Oxford GSSL and it sounds very similar but perhaps a little clearer / more hifi, which makes sense.
Not sure about Softube, but I was so impressed by the whole interaction of the UAD SSL, and it just has the recognizable sound.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 13, 2018 14:02:45 GMT -6
I don't like doing shootouts but I will say that when I demoed the Brainworx extensively vs the UAD SSL MKII, only the UAD had that kind of grainy dry mid quality (and I also think the less open sound Brad describes) of an SSL channel, definition to the snare skin, and tightening of the low end and the whole synergy with the dynamics was very impressive. Closest other thing I tried in terms of character was Duende, but even that was kind of 2D in comparison. Even though the Brainworx could be preferred for sonic reasons (it sounded bigger and less etched), I thought the UAD on several tracks actually sounded much more like the records I know that were done on SSL, whereas the Brainworx sounded good but more generic personality-wise. Too bad the UAD uses so much DSP. I also compared the UAD bus compressor vs my gold can Oxford GSSL and it sounds very similar but perhaps a little clearer / more hifi, which makes sense. Not sure about Softube, but I was so impressed by the whole interaction of the UAD SSL, and it just has the recognizable sound. There is definitely a lot of tone and character to the UAD SSL. Not necessary for me but definitely fun to have when I want that sound. |
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 14, 2018 9:40:22 GMT -6
Are you setting Drive to 5 on the Softube? That should be the default setting, don’t know why they default to 0. Do the others have a Drive setting?
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 14, 2018 9:43:16 GMT -6
Are you setting Drive to 5 on the Softube? That should be the default setting, don’t know why they default to 0. Do the others have a Drive setting? Meant to post that thanks for reminding me. Yes all channels drive at 5 in softube. I think there is a THD setting on the bx console. You can futz with input and output levels on the others as well. I figured unity was the most flat setting. I suppose I could do a set of clips with them all pushed. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 14, 2018 11:10:12 GMT -6
Ok. Here are driven examples. It got rather tricky-dicky here because wow each of these drives differently. The Softube and Waves seem to not chop off transients, perhaps they even enhance them, I don't know. Then the UAD and BX both compress and eat transients. Very interesting. So I matched these in RMS values with Voxengo SPAN. They will sound a little different but they are pretty well matched RMS wise. Yowza. In BX I turned up the THD. In UAD I boosted the input and pulled the fader down(perhaps that was a mistake and I should have used the extra output knob). In C1 I just pushed up the drive. For Waves, I pushed the input and pulled down the fader. Anyway, there are probably other details about the master bus FX that I am missing here and probably messing up, but this somewhat crude comparison will show each in their driven states. All clips now located here: SSL E Comparisons |
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Post by Guitar on Nov 14, 2018 12:05:18 GMT -6
The Waves is really showing its age there...that was what stood out to me the most. It makes the snare sound like a toy.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 14, 2018 12:07:15 GMT -6
There is more smack in those clips than a 1950s Humphrey Bogart flick.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 14, 2018 12:21:14 GMT -6
OK so I just realized the error of my ways. I should have taken my time to think about this before I did it - using the input to drive the UAD and Waves OF COURSE changed the level hitting the dynamics section. Major brain fart.
Let me redo the driven clips so they are hitting the comps all the same. Yeesh. No wonder they were so different.
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Post by sirthought on Nov 14, 2018 13:39:31 GMT -6
All methods aside, I don't really find any of them to sound so different that we should deliberate about these plugins as much as we do. There might have been some that sounded a bit muddier, but only when I was really searching for differences.
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Post by Mister Chase on Nov 14, 2018 13:54:40 GMT -6
All methods aside, I don't really find any of them to sound so different that we should deliberate about these plugins as much as we do. There might have been some that sounded a bit muddier, but only when I was really searching for differences. I'm in 99 percent agreement with you here. I could use any of them. I find some differences in them for sure, the uad being the most colored and chewy sounding to me and the softube more open. But I could use any. I love that if I want no color, I can leave the softube drive off. |
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