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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 18, 2018 9:35:51 GMT -6
So why would you want a DA transformers? Asking seriously.
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Post by drsax on Oct 18, 2018 10:14:07 GMT -6
So why would you want a DA transformers? Asking seriously. For DA Monitoring it seems counterproductive to have the transformer. For inserting Outboard gear on tracks (DAAD) round trip, it could add some interesting results and vibe for hybrid setups. |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 18, 2018 10:16:05 GMT -6
Definitely not for monitoring! But for sending tracks out for analog processing it could be great. Like the outputs of a classic console or tape machine. Like the JCF Latte www.jcfaudio.com/site/latte . I'll be testing a BDA4 soon. |
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 18, 2018 11:06:53 GMT -6
That’s great for going into a summing mixer but yeah I surely wouldn’t want my monitoring to have transformers in it. When I came up with my monitoring chain I tried to think about how music was reproduced in the outside world.
With car stereo’s going mostly 3-way now and having good quality speakers, decent amps both pre amp and power amp and most cars using DSP to tune the systems to the car cabin, and that happens in like XL Fords now. Also iPhones and laptops are setup to reproduce good Sonics. In the past when NS-10’s were the choice it was because if you think about a 1991 Ford F-150 XL it had fords stock coaxial speakers with really poor electronics, it made sense to mix on the concept of “if it sounds good on these it sounds good anywhere” approach was what was best to take. Now that cars are the way they are and most consumer electronics use some form of DSP to reproduce high quality, the more “straightwire” of a sound you can get, the better.
The Focal Shapes still for me beat out anything I have tried, truly they recreate a very “straightwire” sound. The Pro-Ject S2, being dual mono setup and having that “straightwire” approach does extremely well. Finally the Satori I use for my controller is built to be extremely pristine and “straightwire.” For me this setup has been an amazing investment. I remember when I went to the Focal Shapes, the first EP I did for one of my regular producers, his comments came back like this “man, it feels like you’ve taken your skills up 10 notches..... the dynamics and balance of this EP is exponentially better.” That producer already loved my mixing but for him to say that not knowing I’d upgraded my monitors let me know just how vital monitoring is and also made me go back and rework my monitoring chain, which after I put in the S2, the same producer came back with another praise, but it was on how much more solid the bass and low end sounded.
Transformers in the monitoring path are going to give you a false sense of what your mixes will sound like on modern systems.
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Post by veggieryan on Oct 18, 2018 14:15:53 GMT -6
JCF AD8 has transformers on inputs... it's a different design methodology than Burl as it is not meant to be heavy-handed or "colored" in the traditional sense. The custom transformers are part of the overall floating input non-active design philosophy to create a converter that simply sounds better. Same with the new JCF DA8-T... it has transformers in the floating outputs but it is very linear and is designed with summing and monitoring in mind. Again just plain great sound quality. Now the JCF DA8-V is meant to be heavy-handed... its transformers are as big as your fist and sound insanely huge. I think Burl is very smart to release this BDA4. In my experience, most converters lack the overall "bigness" and musical quality of a good tape machine simply on the analog driver portions of their circuits. Now with companies like Burl and JCF finally putting out analog portions in their converters that can truly compete with those old designs, we are finally reaching some of the musical quality that makes tape so revered.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013 
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Burl BDA4
Oct 18, 2018 15:53:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2018 15:53:51 GMT -6
I think it’s best if you think of it as an asthethic like the sound of a classic console, in those terms I get it.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 18, 2018 20:33:04 GMT -6
So why would you want a DA transformers? Asking seriously. If you had a summing mixer like the dangerous, which is really clean, it would be pretty cool to have the xformers right at your D/A before the inputs of the summer. When I’m working at home I hit my VP-28’s and Telefunken pres in line mode before hitting the box to give things more ooomph. Works really well. But you’ve got Jeff’s beast so not really useful for you! |
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Post by drumhead57 on Oct 18, 2018 20:48:56 GMT -6
I would echo what veggieryan said. I held one of these in my hand at the AES show yesterday and it looked and felt pretty awesome. I would like to hear what is sounds like next to my BDA8 cards.  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 18, 2018 22:48:09 GMT -6
Yeah...honestly, I was thinking like the poor musician that I am lol...some people actually have more than one DA. I totally get what you guys are talking about.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 19, 2018 9:40:45 GMT -6
On the new Burl offerings in general - I already "beta tested" the new BOPA14 op amps in one of my Mothership's BDA8 cards. Here's what I wrote back to them: "Just A/B'd the op amps. New ones are really nice! Significant improvement. Individual tracks: The main thing I notice is a more 3D sound. The punch and dynamics are more real sounding. Maybe it's a better transient response or more power/headroom? Tracks are more in the room with me. I especially hear it on kick and bass. Heavy guitars have a nice ring to them. Vibratos and tremolos are sweeter and more musical. Stereo mix - Wider and deeper with improved clarity in that I can hear into the mix more. I can hear panning more precisely and there's better separation. Sweeter overall. More punchy. Nice work! I want to keep these. Can we make that happen somehow?"
Soon I should be able to test the new BOPA11 op amps in my B2 DACs as well as the new BDA4 card in my Mothership.
Excited to hear them. Burl is stepping up their game!
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Post by Guitar on Oct 20, 2018 8:05:33 GMT -6
That’s great for going into a summing mixer but yeah I surely wouldn’t want my monitoring to have transformers in it. When I came up with my monitoring chain I tried to think about how music was reproduced in the outside world. With car stereo’s going mostly 3-way now and having good quality speakers, decent amps both pre amp and power amp and most cars using DSP to tune the systems to the car cabin, and that happens in like XL Fords now. Also iPhones and laptops are setup to reproduce good Sonics. In the past when NS-10’s were the choice it was because if you think about a 1991 Ford F-150 XL it had fords stock coaxial speakers with really poor electronics, it made sense to mix on the concept of “if it sounds good on these it sounds good anywhere” approach was what was best to take. Now that cars are the way they are and most consumer electronics use some form of DSP to reproduce high quality, the more “straightwire” of a sound you can get, the better. The Focal Shapes still for me beat out anything I have tried, truly they recreate a very “straightwire” sound. The Pro-Ject S2, being dual mono setup and having that “straightwire” approach does extremely well. Finally the Satori I use for my controller is built to be extremely pristine and “straightwire.” For me this setup has been an amazing investment. I remember when I went to the Focal Shapes, the first EP I did for one of my regular producers, his comments came back like this “man, it feels like you’ve taken your skills up 10 notches..... the dynamics and balance of this EP is exponentially better.” That producer already loved my mixing but for him to say that not knowing I’d upgraded my monitors let me know just how vital monitoring is and also made me go back and rework my monitoring chain, which after I put in the S2, the same producer came back with another praise, but it was on how much more solid the bass and low end sounded. Transformers in the monitoring path are going to give you a false sense of what your mixes will sound like on modern systems. A little off topic, but, I switched this year to Focal Aria 906 (similar to Shape but passive) and the Topping DX7s DAC... Man, I am tripping out on this sound. It's a window into a world I always knew was there, but couldn't really get to on a low budget. Finally found the needle in the hay. Music feels "easier" now. I'm talking about my creative process. Less guesswork. |
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 24, 2018 9:19:09 GMT -6
I bet this sounds bad ass
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Post by trakworxmastering on Jan 4, 2019 12:07:29 GMT -6
Indeed it does sound pretty badass. Just tested a BDA4 yesterday vs B2 DAC, BDA8 and BDA8 with new BOPA14 op amps. These are 4 different flavors of Burl awesomeness and some of the differences aren't as large as I expected. Still, the BDA4 and the BDA8/BOPA14 came out on top in my early listening tests. Both use the new improved op amps so they both have the 3D clear punchy goodness I described earlier in this thread. As expected, the BDA4 has more weight in the bottom end and a smoother top end while the BDA8/BOPA14 has a flat response. In the mids the BDA4 has a subtle hard-to-describe difference in character. They are 2 excellent alternate options for feeding an analog loop. A bit of high quality transformer fatness when I want it. It's looking like these will become my new mastering DACs, replacing my B2s. Also, just holding a BDA4 in your hand is a beautiful thing. The weight, design and solid build quality. What a beast!
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