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Post by M57 on Sept 9, 2018 10:59:48 GMT -6
Given the choice, when inserting a plugin on a stereo track, under what circumstances do you choose one over the other? I'm mostly thinking about compression, but thoughts/comments about any and all other effects would be great.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 9, 2018 11:14:25 GMT -6
Depends on the material. If it’s two different acoustic guitars, I definitely prefer dual mono. If it’s something like OHs, stereo is better. If I only had one option though, it would be dual mono.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 9, 2018 14:18:59 GMT -6
Under heavy compression stereo linked tends to collapse the stereo spread/image and makes things sound a little narrower. Whereas dual mono will keep things wider. Some people will say that dual mono can/will pull your center image to left or right with the compression but in practical application I’ve never found this to be a problem. I almost always prefer dual mono unless I’m trying to gel stereo sources into one cohesive instrument (like background vocals).
I’m speaking in broad generalities so YMMV.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 14:21:01 GMT -6
Same here, my mastering comps can be dual mono or linked stereo, and I keep them dual mono 99% of the time.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 9, 2018 16:10:15 GMT -6
Stereo - but I generally never have a stereo channel panned hard left and right. I treat it as one “instrument” and prefer for both “sides” to compress together. Very rarely will the narrowing effect have any bearing on what I’m doing - and sometimes I prefer it.
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Post by M57 on Sept 9, 2018 16:20:04 GMT -6
Stereo - but I generally never have a stereo channel panned hard left and right. I treat it as one “instrument” and prefer for both “sides” to compress together. Very rarely will the narrowing effect have any bearing on what I’m doing - and sometimes I prefer it. The reason I thought of the question was I just tracked a piano stereo pair then sent them to a buss panned to say 11 and 2:30, maybe even narrower than that, and I'm finding that I prefer stereo. But yeah, I meant the question to be broad. So is there a consensus for dual mono on the 2-buss?
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 9, 2018 20:24:53 GMT -6
One of my favorite features on the 2500 is the variable stereo linking.
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Post by M57 on Sept 10, 2018 4:09:14 GMT -6
One of my favorite features on the 2500 is the variable stereo linking. In the plugin world, you can achieve that with a mult to two compressors, right?
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 10, 2018 6:50:20 GMT -6
One of my favorite features on the 2500 is the variable stereo linking. In the plugin world, you can achieve that with a mult to two compressors, right? I don’t think so. I think what the 2500 is doing is varying the actual VCA compressor sidechain voltage. It can range from true power summing (both channels change both channels the same) to fully independent sidechain response and increments between.
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Post by Ward on Sept 10, 2018 7:03:09 GMT -6
Given only one option, Dual-mono would be my choice.
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Post by M57 on Sept 10, 2018 7:04:11 GMT -6
In the plugin world, you can achieve that with a mult to two compressors, right? I don’t think so. I think what the 2500 is doing is varying the actual VCA compressor sidechain voltage. It can range from true power summing (both channels change both channels the same) to fully independent sidechain response and increments between. So if you mult to one comp in ST mode and the other in DM and then mix to taste you can create any "incremental" combination of the two. Might not be exactly the same, but it's got to be similar.
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 10, 2018 8:05:30 GMT -6
M57 I don't think so. I mean, maybe it is splitting hairs, but the way the VCA works is there is a timing portion on the RMS detector which sets the attack and release behavior of the RMS output. When a signal comes in, this capacitor or circuit determines what RMS signal level is sent to the sidechain, which of course is what determines the compression voltage applied to the VCA. When you have two RMS detectors set up for true RMS power summing they share a single timing capacitor / circuit, and typically one RMS output is used for both sidechains. I don't know exactly how API is "sharing" the timing capacitor between them, because the manual says that each channel is always only controlled by its individual detector. It's not a blend of individual compressed channels, it is a blend of the signal that causes the compression. In stereo link mode a hard hit on the left channel causes the same duck on the left and right channel. In 50% mode, the duck on the left ducks the same, but the right only halfway participates. In independent, the right doesn't get compressed at all (other than how hard that sound was heard by the right mic). That's not quite the same as what you're describing.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Sept 10, 2018 8:37:12 GMT -6
Same here, my mastering comps can be dual mono or linked stereo, and I keep them dual mono 99% of the time. +1. Same goes for my brick wall limiters. Makes for more interesting stereo image.
I don't have a multiband or dynamic EQ that does dual mono/unlinked. Are there any good ones?
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Post by popmann on Sept 10, 2018 8:50:03 GMT -6
Same here, my mastering comps can be dual mono or linked stereo, and I keep them dual mono 99% of the time. +1. Same goes for my brick wall limiters. Makes for more interesting stereo image.
I don't have a multiband or dynamic EQ that does dual mono/unlinked. Are there any good ones?
What spurred this, Im guessing....that now any AU in Logic can be configured as Mid/side, dual mono controls linked, dual mono control indepednet, or stereo. So whatevr AU you have is now all of the above.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 9:48:46 GMT -6
Same here, my mastering comps can be dual mono or linked stereo, and I keep them dual mono 99% of the time. +1. Same goes for my brick wall limiters. Makes for more interesting stereo image.
I don't have a multiband or dynamic EQ that does dual mono/unlinked. Are there any good ones?
Same, Limiters always totally unlinked since forever.
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Post by joseph on Sept 10, 2018 11:05:04 GMT -6
Given the choice, when inserting a plugin on a stereo track, under what circumstances do you choose one over the other? I'm mostly thinking about compression, but thoughts/comments about any and all other effects would be great. Stereo - but I generally never have a stereo channel panned hard left and right. I treat it as one “instrument” and prefer for both “sides” to compress together. Very rarely will the narrowing effect have any bearing on what I’m doing - and sometimes I prefer it. Just want to state the obvious, but if you mic a source with a true stereo near-coincident etc technique, then it will usually sound best and still have a strong center when hard panned. Conversely if you mic two sources and treat them as stereo, then hard panned sometimes sounds too much (like with Glyn Johns overheads). Because it's not really stereo and the center image is off. The funny thing is that dual mono will sound best when you have a stereo-miked source because the balance is already there or a natural presentation of an ensemble in a room/hall (like divided strings) that you don't want to change, but sometimes I use linked stereo when I want drums to sound a little narrower with hard panned or half-panned mono sources. So the narrowing effect of stereo-linking seems most appropriate to me for a bunch of non-stereo sources that need to be reined in on a sub bus. I almost always prefer dual mono otherwise. But I also like real stereo sources where possible, and I don't care when an overall mix is lopsided, it can sound cool.
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Post by matt@IAA on Sept 10, 2018 13:03:45 GMT -6
joseph I never thought about this, but that is one thing I really liked about the 2500 - when I use it on drum bus in particular, finding the sweet spot on the stereo link can really center and focus the snare. Now I kinda get why!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2018 10:20:31 GMT -6
The thing with stereo vs dual mono is how is the stereo detecting ? Dual mono can kill a stereo spread, but so can a stereo that keys on one channel. I’ll say it depends on the situation and program, but take the time to figure out how your stereo or linked comps are detecting, use some tones and play around.
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Post by joseph on Sept 11, 2018 11:02:08 GMT -6
The thing with stereo vs dual mono is how is the stereo detecting ? Dual mono can kill a stereo spread, but so can a stereo that keys on one channel. I’ll say it depends on the situation and program, but take the time to figure out how your stereo or linked comps are detecting, use some tones and play around. Yeah that reminds me of the whole dual sidechain SSL thing, and how the GSSL didn't originally have that, so the middle would get compressed more than the sides.
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