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Post by yotonic on Aug 20, 2018 20:49:19 GMT -6
Interesting shootout comparing Apogee, Avid, and the prosumer Focusrite (which I love). Check it out. www.audiotechnology.com.au/wp/index.php/apogee-symphony-io-mk-ii-professional-converter/Go to: www.soundcloud.com/audiotechnology/sets/apogee-symphony-i-o-mk-iiThe Saffire uses Cirrus Logic chips but it still keeps an analog vibe. I feel like the Apogee and some of the newer converters are providing "too much detail" like a condenser mic sometimes does, and the music gets lost because detail that should not be front and center is. To me it starts to sound and feel noisy and not musical. I think converters are starting to jump the shark. There comes a point where too much detail is not a good thing in my opinion. Perhaps like digital video vs 35mm film, although that's an unnecessary analogy and not germane. |
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Post by ragan on Aug 20, 2018 21:03:25 GMT -6
I remember this shootout. It was part of my decision to get the Symphony.
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Post by jeromemason on Aug 20, 2018 22:04:46 GMT -6
Boy the Avid gets it's ass handed to it royally.
To me I feel like I want that detail. I don't want my converter to do any rounding or analog unless I'm totally aware of it and unless I've chose the converter for that reason. When you get into these converters people buying them are buying them thinking "get audio in and out of the computer" not a "sound" For me I want the purest and more detailed representation of what is coming off the mic's and preamps. To me I think this is a lot like people going from tape to digital were back in the days, once everyone got caught up to the transparency of digital you started seeing a lot more emphasis being put on preamps that gave color.
Converters, especially since the ESS chips hit the market are revealing another layer of detail, and honestly I think Apogee does a little fineness to soften it a little. IMO more and more studios will upgrade to newer converters and when they're cutting the records perhaps the hi end on eq's won't get cranked as much, or the upper mids won't get pulled out so much. Maybe we will get to a point where the converter is more and more of a straight wire of communication for the audio, IMO that will allow engineers to impart more mojo and not so much EQ, perhaps for filtering than EQ as well. Maybe more emphasis on the quality of preamps and other signal processing. To me I like the idea, it makes me feel like we can get to another level of high definition, just so long as people are aware of it. A learning curve yes, but I think the benefits on the other side of the lesson will bear some good fruit.
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Post by yotonic on Aug 20, 2018 22:21:30 GMT -6
But that's not what I'm hearing. It's not straight line. I think people are kidding themselves and missing the forest from the trees. It reminds me of using cheap condenser mics where every little mouth noise is amplified "to the same level as everything else". I feel like the human voice is the most complex instrument we deal with and what I hear acoustically in real time and space is not what I hear back from this next generation of converters. They have aspects of the human voice hyped louder and in more detail than happens in reality. They are like electron microscopes without the proper algorithm to put things back together in scale. The "reveal" for me is that rarely is the human voice as harsh and hard up close and personal like I hear from time to time on some of these latest converters. I don't want a mastering engineer guessing how to put it back together. He wasn't there. I think it's symptomatic of the noise wars and this deafening conversation we are having as human beings culturally and technologically.
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Post by ragan on Aug 20, 2018 23:00:10 GMT -6
But that's not what I'm hearing. It's not straight line. I think people are kidding themselves and missing the forest from the trees. It reminds me of using cheap condenser mics where every little mouth noise is amplified "to the same level as everything else". I feel like the human voice is the most complex instrument we deal with and what I hear acoustically in real time and space is not what I hear back from this next generation of converters. They have aspects of the human voice hyped louder and in more detail than happens in reality. They are like electron microscopes without the proper algorithm to put things back together in scale. The "reveal" for me is that rarely is the human voice as harsh and hard up close and personal like I hear from time to time on some of these latest converters. I don't want a mastering engineer guessing how to put it back together. He wasn't there. I think it's symptomatic of the noise wars and this deafening conversation we are having as human beings culturally and technologically. I've never had more reality out of conversion than I wanted. Only less. I agree that smoothing and smearing and softening are all totally critical to creating an inviting mix that you feel in your bones when you crank up. I just think that stuff should be done with the usual suspects, ie, good smooth mics into good non-harsh pres into various pleasant and euphonic processing (Pultecs, 1176s, LA2's, etc). I don't want the detail and realism to simply not ever have been there in the first place. |
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Post by Guitar on Aug 21, 2018 10:53:09 GMT -6
Yeah that Symphony sounds really good in this test. Avid not so much.
Saffire sure it does the prosumer thing. A little crunchy. Those things are like $200 so it's a good value if you can run firewire.
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Post by svart on Aug 21, 2018 11:06:41 GMT -6
Interesting shootout comparing Apogee, Avid, and the prosumer Focusrite (which I love). Check it out. www.audiotechnology.com.au/wp/index.php/apogee-symphony-io-mk-ii-professional-converter/Go to: www.soundcloud.com/audiotechnology/sets/apogee-symphony-i-o-mk-iiThe Saffire uses Cirrus Logic chips but it still keeps an analog vibe. I feel like the Apogee and some of the newer converters are providing "too much detail" like a condenser mic sometimes does, and the music gets lost because detail that should not be front and center is. To me it starts to sound and feel noisy and not musical. I think converters are starting to jump the shark. There comes a point where too much detail is not a good thing in my opinion. Perhaps like digital video vs 35mm film, although that's an unnecessary analogy and not germane. I'll agree that too much detail ruins the music. I've told the story a million times where I modified everything in my studio.. Ended up with more detail, but less mojo. Modded everything back to stock. Much better and easier to work with. It's funny to see a lot of the better known metal engineers run their mics through cheapie behringer or mackie mixers to essentially "smooth" out the signal. Too much detail is just harsh rasp. |
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Post by Guitar on Aug 21, 2018 11:36:37 GMT -6
I find that it's a bit genre-dependent what level of detail I want to hear.
For something like heavy music or electronic music maybe I want stuff to be more f'ked up sounding.
For highly produced vocal stuff, acoustic rock, rock with violins, whatever, that detail can just be so amazing for me.
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Post by ragan on Aug 21, 2018 11:47:15 GMT -6
I just want to be able to choose what treatment stuff gets. The Symphony MKII is anything but clinical. It just sounds large and real and dimensional. Tracks I do with it take ‘f*cking up’ better than with lesser converters. Even if I want trashy or otherwise harmonically laden sonics, it’s just a better sounding version of those when I’m done with it.
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Post by sozocaps on Aug 21, 2018 17:59:32 GMT -6
I read the SE 2x6 is even better....
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Post by yotonic on Aug 21, 2018 18:51:01 GMT -6
I read the SE sounded less analog than the MKII and a little clinical.
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