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Post by aremos on Jul 30, 2018 15:36:29 GMT -6
Used the ribbon Audio Technica 4080 & was surprised & impressed. Really natural sound that smooths the high end & full of nice, balanced mids & lows! And I'm talking about vox. Has anyone used this mic? Am curious about how it compares to the AEA stuff, specially the r44.
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Post by mcirish on Jul 30, 2018 15:57:07 GMT -6
I've been interested in them myself. My guess is they have a bit more top end than the 44. I used a 77 on a session as a test and was very pleased with how it smoothed out the sources. I would probably like the 4080 a lot. Which is why I don't want to try it. :-)
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,992 
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2018 20:54:31 GMT -6
Had the other AT ribbon for a couple of weeks Pawn shop find with the AT plastic film still on it, bought to flip but the thing had no ribbon vibe sounded like a very clean condenser so I never really got any attachment to it. Did make some good money in the end, but originally had a deal to trade it for most of an H3000 through a GC in California was told the deal was done just needed to bring it into the local GC, well the store Manager tried to cut the value in to less than 1/3 of what the guy in California and the pro audio dude had agreed on.
I walked made more cash and bought something else somewhere else.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 30, 2018 22:37:40 GMT -6
Had the other AT ribbon for a couple of weeks Pawn shop find with the AT plastic film still on it, bought to flip but the thing had no ribbon vibe sounded like a very clean condenser so I never really got any attachment to it. Did make some good money in the end, but originally had a deal to trade it for most of an H3000 through a GC in California was told the deal was done just needed to bring it into the local GC, well the store Manager tried to cut the value in to less than 1/3 of what the guy in California and the pro audio dude had agreed on. I walked made more cash and bought something else somewhere else. Yeah I wish manufacturers would quit the trend of attempting to make ribbons sound like condensers. If you want a condenser just buy a condenser. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 31, 2018 0:14:49 GMT -6
Had the other AT ribbon for a couple of weeks Pawn shop find with the AT plastic film still on it, bought to flip but the thing had no ribbon vibe sounded like a very clean condenser so I never really got any attachment to it. Did make some good money in the end, but originally had a deal to trade it for most of an H3000 through a GC in California was told the deal was done just needed to bring it into the local GC, well the store Manager tried to cut the value in to less than 1/3 of what the guy in California and the pro audio dude had agreed on. I walked made more cash and bought something else somewhere else. Yeah I wish manufacturers would quit the trend of attempting to make ribbons sound like condensers. If you want a condenser just buy a condenser. Amen to that! Possibly my least favorite ribbon of all time is the Blue Peckerwood. Has nothing of what I do want and everything I don't want in a ribbon. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 0:59:51 GMT -6
Don't have an R44 but we do have an R84 and a pair of N22's.
The best thing I did to our AEA N22's just prior to almost getting rid of them was to remove the perforated tubes covering the ribbon motor assembly which restored the low end and got rid of the upper end peak which I suspect had more to do with some comb filtering resonances within the acoustic tube.
Now they sound fantastic, bigger, smoother and are essentially now an N8.
The next thing is to remove the perforated screens covering the ribbon in one of our Rode NTR's and see if I like it better. I suspect I might.
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Post by wiz on Jul 31, 2018 1:03:18 GMT -6
Don't have an R44 but we do have an R84 and a pair of N22's. The best thing I did to our AEA N22's just prior to almost getting rid of them was to remove the perforated tubes covering the ribbon motor assembly which restored the low end and got rid of the upper end peak. Now they sound fantastic, bigger, smoother and are essentially now an N8. The next thing is to remove the perforated screens covering the ribbon in one of our Rode NTR's and see if I like it better. I suspect I might. I can’t imagine my NTR working any better than it does....... its its a fantastic mic! cheers Wiz |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 1:15:01 GMT -6
Don't have an R44 but we do have an R84 and a pair of N22's. The best thing I did to our AEA N22's just prior to almost getting rid of them was to remove the perforated tubes covering the ribbon motor assembly which restored the low end and got rid of the upper end peak. Now they sound fantastic, bigger, smoother and are essentially now an N8. The next thing is to remove the perforated screens covering the ribbon in one of our Rode NTR's and see if I like it better. I suspect I might. I can’t imagine my NTR working any better than it does....... its its a fantastic mic! cheers Wiz I dunno, I now prefer our modded N22's to our NTR's while prior to modding the N22's I really couldn't bring myself to use them at all. Also my understanding is the AEA R88 which often touted as the stereo version of the R84 is actually very different. Comparing tracks recorded with both mics the R88 is bigger and smoother than the R84 and holds up better at a distance. I suspect this maybe due to the R88's open ribbon motor design whereas the R84 appears to use some type of acoustic equalisation to modify its response which reduces the extreme low end a little and gives a little boost to the highs. I know these 'modern' ribbons are often designed for closer micing with less proximity effect than traditional ribbons but I find moving further back and turning up the gain with a traditional ribbon design preferable. |
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Post by wiz on Jul 31, 2018 1:38:24 GMT -6
I can’t imagine my NTR working any better than it does....... its its a fantastic mic! cheers Wiz I dunno, I now prefer our modded N22's to our NTR's while prior to modding the N22's I really couldn't bring myself to use them at all. Also my understanding is the AEA R88 which often touted as the stereo version of the R84 is actually very different. Comparing tracks recorded with both mics the R88 is bigger and smoother than the R84 and holds up better at a distance. I suspect this maybe due to the R88's open ribbon motor design whereas the R84 appears to use some type of acoustic equalisation to modify its response which reduces the extreme low end a little and gives a little boost to the highs. I know these 'modern' ribbons are often designed for closer micing with less proximity effect than traditional ribbons but I find moving further back and turning up the gain with a traditional ribbon design preferable. That’s interesting.... I have not used a N22. I did demo a AEA 84 from Mick Wordley maybe 10 years ago...the main thing I remember about it apart from its proximity effect, is that it looked and felt plasticy and cheap... I find the NTR a bit of a no btrqiner mic. You plonk it in front of the source and you are pretty good to go...and the adjustments designed into the mic for positioning it are really cool... As always ...different strokes cheers Wiz |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 4:43:13 GMT -6
Whoops! Apologies to the original poster for taking this thread somewhat off topic. Still interesting looking out how manufacturers have tweaked ribbon mics over the years to make them sound more modern. However I would like to see some detailed explanation of the physics behind some of these modern ribbon designs.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 31, 2018 6:33:33 GMT -6
Yeah I wish manufacturers would quit the trend of attempting to make ribbons sound like condensers. If you want a condenser just buy a condenser. That’s not the experience i have with the Samars at least. I feel like you can clearly hear the resonant point difference between the two types along with the emphasis on fundamental in ribbons, no matter the tuning. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 31, 2018 8:50:06 GMT -6
You all should be trying out a Samar VL37 or 37a from our own markfouxman Everyone should own at least one. |
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Post by aremos on Jul 31, 2018 8:57:08 GMT -6
There are 2 AT ribbon mics & maybe some of you are referring to the other one? The one I used doesn't sound like a condenser.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 31, 2018 16:03:27 GMT -6
Yeah, I find it a poor analogy, really 'treble more competitive with a condenser'.
If the body resonance treble boost is funny or the resonant grids are funny it starts sounding....funny. The only B&O small/thin body ribbons I have are various Samar or Samar modified, and they don't have those problems to my ears. Mark did say with the first customs I got, if I didn't like the treble boost I could easily take the resonant grids back out. Never did.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 17:59:11 GMT -6
Yeah, I find it a poor analogy, really 'treble more competitive with a condenser'. If the body resonance treble boost is funny or the resonant grids are funny it starts sounding....funny. The only B&O small/thin body ribbons I have are various Samar or Samar modified, and they don't have those problems to my ears. Mark did say with the first customs I got, if I didn't like the treble boost I could easily take the resonant grids back out. Never did. If you can compare an AEA N22 with an AEA N8 you will find the N22 is basically an N8 fitted with a resonant grid (perforated tube). The N22 also has a much reduced low end compared to the N8. Obviously a different purposed ribbon design but with the grid removed it was what saved them from getting sold. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 18:21:59 GMT -6
This explains it and will likely apply to many modern ribbon mics including some of the AT ribbons. AEA's description of the N8 (no resonant grid or additional high pass filtering) as having a "Natural and open tonality" is exactly how I found the N22's AFTER I removed their resonant grids (perforated tubes). Also the N22's "Presence bump at 3khz" along with its reduced bass response made it sound small and anemic to my ears. I know it was designed for close micing but I didn't even like it in that role. Since I modified the N22's they are huge and rich sounding on piano and make our lowly upright sound like a grand!  |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 18:44:14 GMT -6
Used the ribbon Audio Technica 4080 & was surprised & impressed. Really natural sound that smooths the high end & full of nice, balanced mids & lows! And I'm talking about vox. Has anyone used this mic? Am curious about how it compares to the AEA stuff, specially the r44.
AEA R44/R440 ribbon motor assembly. Ribbon looks open as per most traditional ribbon designs.  AT 4080 Ribbon is heavily screened which should reduce is low end proximity somewhat especially compared to the R44. Also may include some mechanical EQ which may extend the high end over the R44.  This is just a generalisation based on the ribbon motor design until someone can chime in with a real comparison. |
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Post by aremos on Jul 31, 2018 19:06:58 GMT -6
Hey Rowmat, Nice job in looking up info & pictures! And, yes, it'd be nice to hear some feedback from those that've used them. I think the AT is under the radar for some reason cause it sounds great. I was interested in hearing that new AEA R440ACE (I think it was an A440 - active) for $2.5 but it sold out (only 52 units made) before production.
It's nice to see these ribbon mics as active & are appealing because of that, unless one owns a preamp dedicated to passive ones. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 31, 2018 19:18:42 GMT -6
Hey Rowmat, Nice job in looking up info & pictures! And, yes, it'd be nice to hear some feedback from those that've used them. I think the AT is under the radar for some reason cause it sounds great. I was interested in hearing that new AEA R440ACE (I think it was an A440 - active) for $2.5 but it sold out (only 52 units made) before production.
It's nice to see these ribbon mics as active & are appealing because of that, unless one owns a preamp dedicated to passive ones. Yeah I think a A440 being active maybe closer in terms of output level but is expensive and maybe unobtananium anyway. Another contender maybe the Rode NTR or the AEA N8 which is a long ribbon motor design but also active. Both these appear around similar price points as the AT 4080. As discussed I really like our modded N22's which are now effectively N8's. |
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 1, 2018 7:00:35 GMT -6
RE: How they make them more modern sounding. I imagine the first issue is the magnet usage, I suspect high-power neonymium magnets will be used. The characteristic change in the EV models that have adopted this has been an upper mid boost, so there's no real surprise there.
The rest I imagine is headbasket design, and I'd imagine most of it is just plain old idiot-proofing. It's more to do with avoiding returns from customers who can't wrap their head around the idea of using different tools differently.
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