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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2018 9:12:27 GMT -6
Which do you think is more important?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2018 9:13:53 GMT -6
I’d vote for comp probably...I feel like there are some plugin EQs that I can get closer with.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 25, 2018 9:22:03 GMT -6
Id go Comp all day if I HAD to choose. Plugins just haven't been able to fully capture the souls of compressors yet. They are good, but not the same.
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Post by jtc111 on Jul 25, 2018 9:43:22 GMT -6
I think compressor as well. I'm content with doing eq in the box. When tracking, it's a lot easier for me to commit to some light compression on the way in than to commit to eq.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2018 9:57:53 GMT -6
Btw - I forgot that I had the UAD Massenberg EQs (embarrassing). Used them on acoustics yesterday and was shocked at how good they sounded.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 25, 2018 10:10:09 GMT -6
Compressor or saturation processor like an Overstayer MAS or a Silverbullet.
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Post by drbill on Jul 25, 2018 10:26:29 GMT -6
I'd say comp. But the Miad's make a compelling case for EQ since getting them. They do something that no plugin EQ has done for me. Of course, the #1 thing that's always on my mix bus even when an EQ or comp isn't on the bus is the Silver Bullet like indiehouse mentioned. It does have a sweet EQ built into it, but the saturation characteristics and the console emulations are what I find essential. As far as comps on the mix bus go, it's either a manley vary-mu or a GSSL style comp depending on music. I think one of the reasons I shy away from EQ on the mix bus is that I like to re-visit that after the mix is done and touch up then. But I "get it" why some like it right on the bus from note one... I think comps are a little more "embedded" into the DNA of a mix than a bus EQ might be. Hard to describe....
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Post by hugostiglitz on Jul 26, 2018 1:56:28 GMT -6
It's very likely that everybody will say COMP! This has been indoctrinated by our economy .. I will say EQ !
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Post by drsax on Jul 26, 2018 8:40:00 GMT -6
Comp for sure. Plugin comps, as good as they have gotten, are still not as desirable as HW to me. On the other hand, as much as I love HW EQ, on the master Buss, I only use subtle EQ occasionally and have found some plugins that do a great job in that role. Optimally I’d use HW for both comp and EQ. But if had to chose between the two it would be the HW comp.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,022
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2018 9:13:49 GMT -6
I would go with a Comp simply because I have heard way to many mixes that just sound unbalanced because the bus was EQ’d in a far from perfect monitoring system.
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Post by joseph on Jul 27, 2018 20:38:21 GMT -6
Definitely comp.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 28, 2018 0:38:22 GMT -6
Buss comp for sure...
After I custom built my SSL/RED3 hybrid'ish the differences in my mixes totally speak for themselves. But, I would also say too that there could be another hat thrown in here, and that's the combo of both the buss eq and comp together, working as a team. The DIYRE Pultecs, even though they have that little $199 price tag, they are truly incredible EQ's for that money. I built mine with the Capi Xformers, SL1731's and a few other little mods in the input chip.
Honestly I think there are so many little things that are extremely important when it comes to the 2buss. My Antelope Satori, the summing mixer built into it, it's sounds is super clean, detailed and it allows me to do one of the most important things I've found since I've been chasing getting a hybrid rig to feel like a console; and that's gain staging. It took me a long time to get my 2buss chain in the sweet spot of the gain staging and that's all the way down to the A/D. Since my Lavry allows me to juice it's input with +13db of gain, I get ultimately 4 layers of gain stages. 16a>Satori>Pultecs>buss comp>Lavry. It took me hours upon hours of finding the sweet spot of each of those units, I did it in a way that lets me view my DAW output meters, and depending on about 6db of headroom with those meters I know how much heat I'm putting on each mix. The beauty there is that every piece in my buss stays static on it's input/output level, there by allowing me to keep it consistent.
If you want your mixes to have that dynamic movement and open/wide/console sound, pick out multiple layers/stages of gain in analog buss pieces, make sure they're either transparent or not going to saturate too heavily and you'll be hearing that big dynamic sound.
Honestly, I love the RED3, but it clamps too fast, but it no doubt makes the mix sound large. The SSL can be transparent, maybe too transparent, and what I found was making the signal path of the comp RED3 and the transparent compression of the SSL is perfect to my ears. So I'd say the comp is the most important or critical one piece of gear, but if you're going after that console sound and trying to get there with a hybrid setup, increase the number of gain stages and figure out the sweet spot of each one, then figure out how to keep them static and rely on your DAW output level.
The best candidate out there to start with is the Audioscape buss comp, the mods you can lay over the top of that clone are inexpensive but highly worth it. Eliminating near all but 2 of the coupling/bypass caps and transformers on the inputs gives it the RED3 large sound. I know that's way more potatoes for the sack than the original question asked, but hopefully what took me damn near 3 years to figure out, that knowledge might help some get there quicker, making a plan and budget.
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Post by christopher on Jul 28, 2018 1:20:15 GMT -6
Great question! Really makes me question my methods. I've tried mixing into compression on the 2 bus a few times and I liked it. But I ran into a problem: when the artist is in love with the mix but still wants to take the mix to someone else and wants me to print stems. The bass for example makes the comp suck down so that guitars are easier on the ears. Mixing into comp I push the guitar faders higher. But if I solo the guitars, suddenly they aren't soft anymore, instead are angry and edgy. So this method means the mix is a blend, and the comp is glueing it all together. I haven't figured out how to stem things out where this doesn't happen. I guess maybe I could set up a side chain bus with the whole mix, while each instrument solo'd? These are the kind of headscratchers that pop up when I've tried it, so I stopped 2bus comp.. -- 100% because recall stems for clients and avoiding headaches later. I like 2bus EQ, but that's only at very end for finalizing the mix/ give it something special.
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Post by javamad on Jul 28, 2018 3:21:43 GMT -6
Great question! Really makes me question my methods. I've tried mixing into compression on the 2 bus a few times and I liked it. But I ran into a problem: when the artist is in love with the mix but still wants to take the mix to someone else and wants me to print stems. The bass for example makes the comp suck down so that guitars are easier on the ears. Mixing into comp I push the guitar faders higher. But if I solo the guitars, suddenly they aren't soft anymore, instead are angry and edgy. So this method means the mix is a blend, and the comp is glueing it all together. I haven't figured out how to stem things out where this doesn't happen. I guess maybe I could set up a side chain bus with the whole mix, while each instrument solo'd? These are the kind of headscratchers that pop up when I've tried it, so I stopped 2bus comp.. -- 100% because recall stems for clients and avoiding headaches later. I like 2bus EQ, but that's only at very end for finalizing the mix/ give it something special. I saw a thread somewhere that suggested putting the whole mix into the sidechain when printing stems .... sounds like it might work in theory but I have not tried in practice.
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Post by drbill on Jul 28, 2018 8:26:19 GMT -6
But I ran into a problem: when the artist is in love with the mix but still wants to take the mix to someone else and wants me to print stems. I don't get it. if they want your mix, then give them your mix. if they want stems, then they get what they get - and what they get will not be your mix. why help someone else take your mix and call it their own? crazy. most experienced engineers / producers realize that the sum of all the parts does not equal the finished master - so it's usually not a problem and I don't worry about it. If they want it the way it sounds coming out of my system, then they better have me print the 2 bus the way I want it with the gear I've got on it. IME, the combined stems will not sound the same. Ever. Mixing from stems later is always a compromise.
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Post by matt on Jul 28, 2018 9:13:19 GMT -6
But I ran into a problem: when the artist is in love with the mix but still wants to take the mix to someone else and wants me to print stems I'd tell the artist: a mix is a mix, stems are stems. If they pay to have stems, fine, but stems won't represent your 2-mix. EDIT: I just read Bills's reply: I speaketh in his shadow.
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Post by stormymondays on Jul 28, 2018 10:35:32 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Jul 29, 2018 11:31:05 GMT -6
Thanks for that. I guess I need more practice, I just remember all the negatives he brings up lol. I'll do next few mixes with 2bus comp and see how I like it. He mentions you can slam the 2bus instead, which has worked for me and gives me easy stem print options. It's depressing, but sooo many friends of band members think they can do better mix haha. That's fine, I honestly just want them to be happy, whatever I can do help them hit the finish line.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 29, 2018 15:06:34 GMT -6
I barely hit a bus comp usually, but it's almost always there. Very rare I think bus EQ is gonna do anything I need unless there's really something extra wrong or lifeless in the tracks.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 30, 2018 9:03:29 GMT -6
Thanks for that. I guess I need more practice, I just remember all the negatives he brings up lol. I'll do next few mixes with 2bus comp and see how I like it. He mentions you can slam the 2bus instead, which has worked for me and gives me easy stem print options. It's depressing, but sooo many friends of band members think they can do better mix haha. That's fine, I honestly just want them to be happy, whatever I can do help them hit the finish line. Don't work for free man. And don't under sell yourself. If "John Doe" thinks his cousin "Eddie" can do a better mix. You have NO obligation to give them a head start. Id just give them raw audio at that point not even stems. Not worth your time and effort to dial in a mix and then print stems only to have some dude get way to liberal with EQ plugins and compress the shit out of it. You should let them hear your version, them give them the RAW stuff. With any luck it'll click that, wow it sounds better at Chris's places...maybe we should go back..
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Post by drbill on Jul 30, 2018 9:30:43 GMT -6
Thanks for that. I guess I need more practice, I just remember all the negatives he brings up lol. I'll do next few mixes with 2bus comp and see how I like it. He mentions you can slam the 2bus instead, which has worked for me and gives me easy stem print options. It's depressing, but sooo many friends of band members think they can do better mix haha. That's fine, I honestly just want them to be happy, whatever I can do help them hit the finish line. Don't work for free man. And don't under sell yourself. If "John Doe" thinks his cousin "Eddie" can do a better mix. You have NO obligation to give them a head start. Id just give them raw audio at that point not even stems. Not worth your time and effort to dial in a mix and then print stems only to have some dude get way to liberal with EQ plugins and compress the shit out of it. You should let them hear your version, them give them the RAW stuff. With any luck it'll click that, wow it sounds better at Chris's places...maybe we should go back.. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with this!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 9:34:49 GMT -6
I barely hit a bus comp usually, but it's almost always there. Very rare I think bus EQ is gonna do anything I need unless there's really something extra wrong or lifeless in the tracks. Same here, if the mix is right I'll just do a 1-2dB tickle with a transparent comp.. I've had good luck with EQ on the 2, but also wrecked the track a few times, so it's case dependant for me.
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Post by joseph on Jul 30, 2018 12:26:19 GMT -6
I wonder if the Softube Weiss changes the equation a bit.
When I demoed it, it fared well versus my hardware comps. For anything I wanted transparent without too much mid push, I might choose it, and instead use some hardware eq for more euphonic highs.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 30, 2018 14:17:46 GMT -6
Don't work for free man. And don't under sell yourself. If "John Doe" thinks his cousin "Eddie" can do a better mix. You have NO obligation to give them a head start. Id just give them raw audio at that point not even stems. Not worth your time and effort to dial in a mix and then print stems only to have some dude get way to liberal with EQ plugins and compress the shit out of it. You should let them hear your version, them give them the RAW stuff. With any luck it'll click that, wow it sounds better at Chris's places...maybe we should go back.. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with this!!! YES YES YES!! You can do extra work (like printing stems) for clients for a little while, but you'll end up feeling disgruntled, disrespected, and devalued over time. You're worth more than that. Sometimes a client prefers someone else's mix. No big deal. It happens. But as Blackdawg said, if they want someone else to mix, then let THEM mix. Don't do the work for them.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 30, 2018 14:34:01 GMT -6
They may make horrible ego-centric mixes with either the raw or the stems, and either way it points to a lack of communication skills which would sabotage what you might do after fighting overly hard to keep it in house. Yeah, let'em figure it out, and don't be a casualty of that problem. If they come back, they come back.
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