|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2018 16:15:47 GMT -6
I notice - at least in the songs I play bass on - that my p-bass has big resonances on (obviously the lower notes)...ie, the bottom drops out when playing up the neck. Some notes seem to bloom. How do you guys handle balancing that out. Maybe I’m just not compressing enough.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jul 19, 2018 17:11:36 GMT -6
I notice - at least in the songs I play bass on - that my p-bass has big resonances on (obviously the lower notes)...ie, the bottom drops out when playing up the neck. Some notes seem to bloom. How do you guys handle balancing that out. Maybe I’m just not compressing enough. Well, playing technique aside (and I am not a great player, passable at best) I find once the EQ is sorted, that my LA2A does a good job, then I run Waves Bass rider on it in the mix, better player, less bass rider. Send me a track and I will put it through my chain for you Cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jul 19, 2018 17:13:02 GMT -6
I notice - at least in the songs I play bass on - that my p-bass has big resonances on (obviously the lower notes)...ie, the bottom drops out when playing up the neck. Some notes seem to bloom. How do you guys handle balancing that out. Maybe I’m just not compressing enough. Same drop outs on headphones? Sometimes it’s the bass, sometimes it’s the monitoring environment. But then, I expect you already know all this. I really only like gentle opto on bass, mostly, and the pros I track don’t really need it. FWIW, the low stuff seems quite a bit more pronounced on p-basses with modern/badass bridges than my James Jamerson custom shop job.
|
|
|
Post by nudwig on Jul 19, 2018 17:17:22 GMT -6
I'm not sure if you're going through an amp or DI but assuming DI I get this on my p-bass as well. I smoothed it out when I started going Zod to LA2A, maybe hitting -5 to - 7 on the resonant notes and a few dB on the others. I've also learned which notes do it (C above the octave on the A string is one on my bass for example) and try to adjust my playing around it/look at if my playing is causing it. I'm usually adding more compression in the box too, been loving the Lindell 254e lately.
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Jul 19, 2018 17:24:51 GMT -6
I have found it to be caused by the set up and fingerboard/fret wear. I personally do not love most P basses because of how the low end blooms so much.
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 19, 2018 17:26:35 GMT -6
I'm assuming your recording DI so that room acoustics aren't an issue, yes? Compression, sometimes pretty heavy, and a lot of attention to how I'm plucking the strings makes a big difference for me. If I'm recording heavy music with a pick (which I do a lot), then it often sounds good to really dig into the strings with the pick and compress the crap out of it. That's my 2 cents.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Jul 19, 2018 17:27:42 GMT -6
I seem to remember a similar thread here where someone mentioned that the player is often responsible for the problem. I'm not a bass player per se but I play most of my bass tracks using a DI and I have the same problem with a few of my basses, including a fretless. So there's a part of me that's tempted to agree with that notion. On the other hand, it's often note specific. I.e, when I play a scale one note just jumps out, and it's not necessarily an open string. It really jumps out on the waveform. Come to think of it, there are usually a couple of notes that are perenially too soft.
Anyway, I end up using a combination of automation and bass rider to deal with it. Funny, I have vocal rider and never use it. I probably don't compress enough or appropriately. Usually I use a DI and a WA-76 before I get ITB. For those of you DI types, how do you do it? Do you compress before going ITB? The more I think about it, that seems backwards. Maybe I should be going ITB and using a amp sim before any compression?? ..though sometimes I don't even use any amp sims. I have to admit I like things clean.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 19, 2018 17:32:29 GMT -6
Fender basses are prone to this I've found.
Mult/copy the track into two tracks, then place a hpf on one around 250-300, and a lpf on the other around 125-150.
Compress the dickens out of both, and possibly some limiting on the one that "jumps" the most.
Mix them into the song to taste.
A lot easier than the normal EQ work with tons of narrow peaks and cuts.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2018 17:45:22 GMT -6
I notice - at least in the songs I play bass on - that my p-bass has big resonances on (obviously the lower notes)...ie, the bottom drops out when playing up the neck. Some notes seem to bloom. How do you guys handle balancing that out. Maybe I’m just not compressing enough. Same drop outs on headphones? Sometimes it’s the bass, sometimes it’s the monitoring environment. But then, I expect you already know all this. I really only like gentle opto on bass, mostly, and the pros I track don’t really need it. FWIW, the low stuff seems quite a bit more pronounced on p-basses with modern/badass bridges than my James Jamerson custom shop job. I shouldn't say "dropout"...just like resonance differences where like a low G sounds like the house falling on the witch and 7th fret on the A string sounds...well, less like that. Just the nature of the beast? I'm also using a cheap Classic Vibe Bass - but they're not awful...I bet a real player could make it sound great. I need to borrow a real bass and see if it makes a diff.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2018 17:49:46 GMT -6
Also just realized that I have the high frequency control on the LA2A pulled back (I like it that way on most everything)...need to try it on bass with it fully CW.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2018 17:54:00 GMT -6
Duh...yeah...that worked. Still a bit of resonance on the low E string...but much freaking better.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jul 19, 2018 17:58:07 GMT -6
Probably already said; dynamic eq combined with notch eq can work wonders. Go through songs just like tuning vocals. Lots of basses have resonances naturally, dead spots, no matter what you do.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Jul 19, 2018 18:12:46 GMT -6
Glad you found a solution! This effected me for years, all the riding the fader, breaking out onto different tracks etc. The thing that I've found I like the best is using my console: setup a subgroup to be my summing bus. Then I have the bass on a channel and gain stage so that the channel has a strong level but clean. Then I push the channel fader above unity until the group bus is being hit nice and hard, blinking into the red each note. When I record it back, levels are way more consistent and it's visible in the waveform, but sounds pretty much like the original.. If I want extra waveform control, I push it harder, the wave gets more and more flat exactly like going through a limiter, but also starts gets some audible distortion that can be cool if I want it. And then there's additive EQ options I can use on the channel, and then subtract on the group. That can be cool sometimes.
e: I went and tried this last night, man things weren't working the way I remember. I realized that I always prefer to use heavy handed EQ into the summing to get the effect I want, usually low shelf up 3-4dB and the result is steady deep and even. I also boost up mids and highs. Then I may or may not subtract on the group, or if I want compression I'll add some. Moves are so quick on a console its hard to realize just wtf I'm doing.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jul 19, 2018 18:33:32 GMT -6
Duh...yeah...that worked. Still a bit of resonance on the low E string...but much freaking better. Yeah bass would be wonky with the LA2a pre-emphasis doing it’s thing.
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Jul 19, 2018 20:11:26 GMT -6
I notice - at least in the songs I play bass on - that my p-bass has big resonances on (obviously the lower notes)...ie, the bottom drops out when playing up the neck. Some notes seem to bloom. How do you guys handle balancing that out. Maybe I’m just not compressing enough. From what you say, It's the bass. Is the neck straight? Have the frets have been leveled? Are the pickup are adjusted? Has the intonation been setup? Proper playing technique? Even the wood the bass is made of has an effect on sound and tuning. All contribute to the sound and playability of a bass. Start with the basics of the instrument. Audio tricks are just a band aid.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 19, 2018 21:16:24 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2018 23:29:39 GMT -6
Maybe I should have spent more than $500 for it.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jul 19, 2018 23:52:15 GMT -6
Try changing the strings. If that doesn't work go to the go-to repair luthier, and demonstrate the issue. Might be able to fix it, the instrument price doesn't really matter, you can have a duff axe at any price point, if the QC of the expensive instruments isn't up to snuff. Lot less duff instruments in my experience after CNC machines, even as lumber could be worse than vintage stuff.
In the 80's I had a '57 Fender two tone sunburst Strat I'd bought a couple years earlier. It sounded like crap. I traded it even for a Roland 707 guitar synth. (My STUPID!!) But the Strat just didn't have it. Probably why it was sold to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Jul 20, 2018 5:08:37 GMT -6
Had something similar in a mix last week, happens with some basses
Ended up using essence (DMG Audio) to compress just the bloom region
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 20, 2018 6:45:51 GMT -6
You guys are thinking too deep about it. Fender basses are notorious for this. You can try to move the pickups a little and see if it works out a bit.
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jul 20, 2018 8:11:00 GMT -6
For those of you DI types, how do you do it? Do you compress before going ITB? The more I think about it, that seems backwards. Maybe I should be going ITB and using a amp sim before any compression?? ..though sometimes I don't even use any amp sims. I have to admit I like things clean. I track using using my REDDI with my LA-2A. When needed, I also use my UAD Ampeg B-15 plugin if the bass player doesn't bring, or prefer, his bass amp. That being said, I also ride faders to automate the bass. In John's case, when there are resonances I would fade down and when there was a weaker signal I would fade up. I enjoy riding faders to make the music more dynamic and think it is a lost art as everybody now seems to be relying on compression alone for dynamics.
|
|
|
Post by mcirish on Jul 20, 2018 8:33:26 GMT -6
Fender basses are so much easier than dealing with an upright bass. Now those are a bear to get an even sound from! In both cases I use a dynamic EQ and some notch EQ to even it out. Then I use light multiband compression and a bass rider or automation to tweak it best as possible. Upright is near impossible to get a perfect performance. I'd take a jazz or P bass any day. I like dynamic EQ better than just heavy compression. It keeps the sound from becoming a blob and losing all character. I focus first on taming the individual notes that stick out. I will either notch it with a tight Q or use the dynamic EQ. Once those honking notes are tamed, it's a lot easier to compress the rest and get an even performance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:53:41 GMT -6
Probably already said; dynamic eq combined with notch eq can work wonders. Go through songs just like tuning vocals. Lots of basses have resonances naturally, dead spots, no matter what you do. I don't compress bass. Just EQ and dynamic EQ to tame resonances so I can raise gain without compression artifacts. Sample applies for piano, guitar, drums...
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2018 8:54:36 GMT -6
Yeah, acoustic bass is slave to room modes on top of instrument and technique.
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Jul 20, 2018 9:06:10 GMT -6
Cheap Fender basses are loaded with dead spots. The body wood is part of the reason. It's too soft. Mine is made of Hawaiian Koa hardwood. It rings everywhere without those dead notes on the G string.
I always evaluate an electric bass unplugged first. You can find those problems that way before you buy.
|
|