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Post by bram on Jul 2, 2018 23:22:41 GMT -6
Lot's of great mic threads popping up lately.
I'm looking towards adding one more nice mic ($1-2k range) or a couple more affordable workhorses to the family.
Most of my gigs lately have been recording and producing local SoCal rock bands. In general the only multi-tracking I'm doing is drums with ~8 mics. Otherwise I'm recording one or two channels at a time (vox, acoustic guitar, percussion, re-amping). I also work with indigenous populations recording Native American vocalists, Kenyan folk artists - lots of interesting human voices representing different styles and cultures coming through the studio. Overall I'm pretty happy with my collection, but it might be nice to have another solid vocal mic to choose from.
My mics:
Dynamics: SM57, M201, JZ H1, AKG D5
Lrg. Dyn: RE20, Heil PR40
Ribbons: DIY Austin Ribbon stereo pair
SDC: Violet Gold Finger Pair
LDC: Sphere L22, Charter Oak E700, Violet Amethyst Vintage, JZ V11 Pair, AT3035
The only type I don't have access to is a tube mic, so I've been eyeing the Stam SA67. The Sphere has been wonderfully versatile and sounds great, but I can't say I've had the privilege of hearing any of the vintage models it emulates, so I have no idea if it does any of them justice. Its ability to change polar patterns/proximity effect post-rec, and double as a stereo mic is super useful though.
What are some mics you just couldn't live without that would offer something useful and unique from the above list? Would a mic like a U67-type get me results or flavors that the solid state variants can't touch?
Thanks!
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 3, 2018 5:23:06 GMT -6
Well most of the DIY projects out there are terrific mics for the money and the amount of skill required is minimal, especially given all the help threads. Besides that and excluding the classics I'd say look for deals on Gefell, Beyer, Sennheiser and Audix. If you're into modding mics a capsule swap on Rode mics will get you an extremely clean, workhorse mic. I'd stay away from most of the rebranded chinese stuff unless you really want to rebuild it.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 3, 2018 6:23:34 GMT -6
Lot's of great mic threads popping up lately. I'm looking towards adding one more nice mic ($1-2k range) or a couple more affordable workhorses to the family. Most of my gigs lately have been recording and producing local SoCal rock bands. In general the only multi-tracking I'm doing is drums with ~8 mics. Otherwise I'm recording one or two channels at a time (vox, acoustic guitar, percussion, re-amping). I also work with indigenous populations recording Native American vocalists, Kenyan folk artists - lots of interesting human voices representing different styles and cultures coming through the studio. Overall I'm pretty happy with my collection, but it might be nice to have another solid vocal mic to choose from. My mics: Dynamics: SM57, M201, JZ H1, AKG D5 Lrg. Dyn: RE20, Heil PR40 Ribbons: DIY Austin Ribbon stereo pair SDC: Violet Gold Finger Pair LDC: Sphere L22, Charter Oak E700, Violet Amethyst Vintage, JZ V11 Pair, AT3035 The only type I don't have access to is a tube mic, so I've been eyeing the Stam SA67. The Sphere has been wonderfully versatile and sounds great, but I can't say I've had the privilege of hearing any of the vintage models it emulates, so I have no idea if it does any of them justice. Its ability to change polar patterns/proximity effect post-rec, and double as a stereo mic is super useful though. What are some mics you just couldn't live without that would offer something useful and unique from the above list? Would a mic like a U67-type get me results or flavors that the solid state variants can't touch? Thanks! The thing about the Stam stuff is that you're buying the purchasing experience as much as you're buying the product, and that will include an unkown wait time (which is often measured in months, if not years). The upside is that he's had a positive track record of delivering great sounding gear at great prices. If you can afford the wait, it's a solid choice, though I've not heard the SA67, and I'm not sure many people have. There are other solid options, and you can stretch your dollar further on the used market. Check out Blackspade's UM17(B/R) mics. Also, Dave Pearlman makes good mics that can be found within your budget on the used market. |
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Post by woofhead on Jul 3, 2018 8:06:46 GMT -6
I recently picked up a used lauten horizon cardiod tube mic and am extremely impressed by it. I tested it recording sax which is the instrument I play and as a drum mic in a few positions.It has a clear sound with some rounding but not overdone saturation wise and although I have not tried it on vocals I suspect it will be very good. When I record vocals its usually jazz or world music direction so not far from what youre doing. I had heard 1st hand from someone I respect that Lauten made good stuff and not hyped and have read many people like them for vocals.They make a newer model called Eden I believe and Im keeping an eye out for a used one to try in the future Mike
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Post by bigbone on Jul 3, 2018 8:56:30 GMT -6
The thing that i found about some of the "boutique " brand is not only, sometime,the time to get your product
could take months and months, but if you had to unfortunately have to sell it,the resell value isn't much
compare to a well know company.Myself i will get a few Gefell Bock Shure Audio -Technica .......
Best of luck
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Post by drbill on Jul 3, 2018 9:40:34 GMT -6
You can "add more" in the lower end pricing, but I've seen (and experienced personally) over and over with many engineers / studio's that eventually, these mics go bye bye, and are replaced with proven classics.
That said, you'd don't have to spend mega-bux, but buying quality and proven reputation pays off in the long run. Whatever those classic mics cost you now, they will be worth more in 5 years. You don't have to look to C12's and U47's and pay mid 5 figures. There are tons of great mics out there that used are only a bit more than buying a chinese mic.
If I had your locker, I'd stretch just a bit, and get a used pair of Gefell UM70's. Fantastic (the best short of C12's) for drum overheads, and great for female vox. Then I'd add a SM7B asap.
Beyond that, the sky's the limit....
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Post by jtc111 on Jul 3, 2018 11:07:41 GMT -6
I recently picked up a used lauten horizon cardiod tube mic and am extremely impressed by it....They make a newer model called Eden I believe and Im keeping an eye out for a used one to try in the future Mike I own a Lauten Atlantis that impresses the hell out of me. It has a 47ish vibe that I really like and if I didn't own a Flea 47, I could be very happy with the Atlantis as my vocal mic. The OP is looking for a tube mic and the Atlantis isn't that, but the Lauten Oceanus might be worth checking out. It sells for $2k new but you can come in under that buying used. That fits within the OP's price range. Judging by what I've read, I think the Oceanus has a bit of a 49ish thing going on. The more I read people's opinions about Lauten mics, the more I think they're a very safe bet. |
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Post by bram on Jul 3, 2018 11:46:55 GMT -6
The OP is looking for a tube mic and the Atlantis isn't that, but the Lauten Oceanus might be worth checking out. It sells for $2k new but you can come in under that buying used. That fits within the OP's price range. Judging by what I've read, I think the Oceanus has a bit of a 49ish thing going on. The more I read people's opinions about Lauten mics, the more I think they're a very safe bet. Some interesting suggestions here, thanks all. My curiosity is leaning towards a tube mic only because I haven't used one in person yet myself. In the interest of expanding my color palette, I'm certainly open to non-tube options. The more experienced I get, the more enjoyment I derive from capturing it right at the source with mic choice/placement/signal chain, rather than Frankensteinin' the signals in plugin-land. How does a tube mic handle sources vs its solid-state or transformer coupled brethren? More saturation? Smoothing out of transients? I'm in the process of building a STA Level and UA176, so tubes in the recording chain will be an option regardless of mic choice. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 3, 2018 11:55:35 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong, I like tube mics. I find I gravitate towards non-tube mics more often. Vocals might be the exception, but I'm OK with my non-tube mics even on vocals.
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Post by woofhead on Jul 3, 2018 13:14:25 GMT -6
The Lauten Oceanus was what I was thinking of btw not the Eden. Totally agree about sm7b reminds me I should find one.
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Post by matt on Jul 3, 2018 13:28:55 GMT -6
A U47-type would be a good option. As I've mentioned a few times, I own a Cathedral Pipes Notre Dame and still love it after 4 years. Lots of other options out there too- it's been cloned/copied a lot. And SM7 of course. I need to add one myself.
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Post by Ward on Jul 4, 2018 5:12:04 GMT -6
If you need to improve your hipster cred, then by all means get an SM7.
After all, audio is about how it looks. Music is about style.
Sound? That's for old people.
- - - - -
As far as suggestions are concerned, a tube condenser is definitely what you should add next. Either a Stam 67 or 47, or a Telefunken Copper head (CU29) - which is still one of my favorites despite having microphones that cost 10x as much
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Post by bram on Jul 4, 2018 9:22:38 GMT -6
If you need to improve your hipster cred, then by all means get an SM7. After all, audio is about how it looks. Music is about style. Sound? That's for old people. Well, in the meantime I can tell the hipsters that Thom Yorke sings through an RE20. 🙃 I'll check out the copperhead. |
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Post by matt@IAA on Jul 4, 2018 13:14:41 GMT -6
Consider a custom tube from Barbaric Amplification. He can build a circuit clone of just about anything, and then you can mix and match tubes, capsules, and transformers to get something really cool. Or, go with a normal combo.
I have a really gnarly tube mic with a Lundahl output transformer that is just warm and thick in all the right ways. His recommendation.
He recently posted a pic on his Facebook page of a pair of KM54 style SDCs that I am lusting over pretty bad.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 4, 2018 14:30:29 GMT -6
I'd like to put in a word for the Pearlman TM-1 tube mic. It's in the "47ish" family of tube mics. I got one and liked it enough to get another so I could have a pair. It's my favorite vocal recording mic, much warmer and euphonic than my Neumann U87, and I use the pair of them as the main kit mics for drums. And lots of other stuff.
Also, in the Dynamic Mic category you really should check out the Beyer M88. It's good on about 90% of everything.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 4, 2018 21:56:57 GMT -6
If you need to improve your hipster cred, then by all means get an SM7. After all, audio is about how it looks. Music is about style. Sound? That's for old people. Well, in the meantime I can tell the hipsters that Thom Yorke sings through an RE20. 🙃 I'll check out the copperhead. Except for when he sings through one of Nigel's Soyuz SU-017 LDCs. Little pricier, though. :-) |
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Post by spindrift on Jul 4, 2018 22:29:28 GMT -6
^^^ Those poolside videos of him singing into the Soyuz at La Fabrique are pretty cool.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 4, 2018 22:42:49 GMT -6
My old Blackspade UM-17R chomped the Lauten Atlantis I tested through a restored Neve console at Fab Dupont's place. The Soyuz 0-17's a monster. I'm getting the Stam 67 soon. I trust that Stam will get as close as possible to an original's tone. Lewitt's 640 is superb, but I think you need a really good tube mic to make your mic locker work best.
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Post by jtc111 on Jul 4, 2018 23:04:19 GMT -6
My old Blackspade UM-17R chomped the Lauten Atlantis I tested through a restored Neve console at Fab Dupont's place. The Soyuz 0-17's a monster. I'm getting the Stam 67 soon. I trust that Stam will get as close as possible to an original's tone. Lewitt's 640 is superb, but I think you need a really good tube mic to make your mic locker work best. Assuming the talents who designed each of are of a like level, I'd expect the Blackspade UM-17R to beat the Atlantis. The former is a tube mic and, all other things being equal, I'd expect it to get me to a level that a FET usually can't. I've never used a Blackspade but I've heard enough good things about them that the OP should certainly put it on his list of mics to check out. Wasn't that UM-17R designed to be some kind of 47/49 hybrid? I can't stand to listen to myself through a 49ish mic. What is 49ish vs 47ish on that mic? By the way, I ordered the Stam 67 with the full NOS package. I'd be interested in hearing his basic 67 up against the NOS version. I'm sure Vincent R. would be curious about that too. I think he said he's been to your place in the past. I'd be cool with lending him the mic to do that shootout if you both were into it. |
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Post by bram on Jul 4, 2018 23:29:00 GMT -6
Thanks again everyone for your input. The list for tube contenders to check out thus far are: Blackspade's UM17(B/R) Pearlman TM-1 Lauren Oceanus Cathedral Pipes Notre Dame Telefunken Copper head (CU29) Custom builds from Chris@Barbaric Stam options Price aside, I’m sure the Soyuz is fantastic, although I can’t help but think of soy sauce when I hear that name.  I’ll be driving up to LA this weekend for one of Josh’s studio tour stops so hopefully he’ll have his mics out. With any luck I can get ears on the NOS vs standard SA67. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 5, 2018 4:46:52 GMT -6
Thanks again everyone for your input. The list for tube contenders to check out thus far are: Price aside, I’m sure the Soyuz is fantastic, although I can’t help but think of soy sauce when I hear that name. You don't hear 'Soyuz Rockets' and the Clinton-Trump galactic front space force? (asking for a friend) |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014 
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Post by ericn on Jul 5, 2018 6:24:43 GMT -6
Thanks again everyone for your input. The list for tube contenders to check out thus far are: Price aside, I’m sure the Soyuz is fantastic, although I can’t help but think of soy sauce when I hear that name. You don't hear 'Soyuz Rockets' and the Clinton-Trump galactic front space force? (asking for a friend) Houston do we have a problem? If you can’t swing the big boys my go to is still a Gefell UM70, it’s all about the capsule. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Jul 5, 2018 6:39:10 GMT -6
The 67 mic has been one I’ve been chasing for a little while now. I’ve owned a custom Advanced Audio CM67LE with both a mordern and vintage mode, the Slate VMS FG67, the MK67, and most recently the TLM67 and B11 capsule for my BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II. I would say that if the Sphere’s 67 emulation gets you close to the sound you are looking for then the Stam should get you closer, particularly his NOS version. 67 style mics are great general use microphones. They sound good on a lot of voices. In fact, I didn’t find any voices they sounded bad on. Sometimes they won shoot outs. Some times they didn’t. The 47 and 49 style mics are much more specific.
I will I’ll say that in general my real Mics always beat out the emulations. Even the AA beat the VMS. The MK67 was overly dark. The TLM67 is a little brighter and of course not an actual tube mic, but I find it needs very little EQ to get me where I want to go. The B11 Cap is dark, but not as dark as the MK67. In fact, I like the BLUE system a lot. It replaced my VMS and does a better job of giving me multiple options in one mic. Particularly I enjoy the B7 (47) and B11 (67). I also enjoy the B6(C12). If I had known they were going to release a 49 (B10) I might have held off picking up my FleA 49 until I heard it. It should be said that I replaced the stock ECC88 with a PCC88 (no mod needed. It just slightly under powers the PCC88 providing a bit more headroom) and I have an in-line 12db pad on it, as it’s the hottest output mic I have and was distorting the digital preamps on my Apollo. Before I switched the tube I had an 18db pad on it. Lol. I will say that I say all this while eying the big bottle and wondering....
As you already know, Stam makes good products. So if you’re not in a rush, and don’t mind the wait and the mixed communication, you should like what comes when it finally arrives.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 5, 2018 7:06:08 GMT -6
jtc111 said, "Wasn't that UM-17R designed to be some kind of 47/49 hybrid? I can't stand to listen to myself through a 49ish mic. What is 49ish vs 47ish on that mic?"
I had 3 or 4 versions of the UM17. First the UM-17, then changed to the Thiersch capsule making it a UM17B, then upgraded UM-17B, then to the next upgraded UM-17R. The Blackspade guys were very cool and helpful. The first two versions were closer to an M49, but the later generations were closer to a U47 in tone. They weren't making a clone, and the UM-17R & B sound like their own mic, but it was actually much closer to the real deal U47 than any of the very nice clones I've heard.
I'll be getting the upgraded NOS Stam 67, so someone would have to have the basic version for me to compare.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 5, 2018 9:06:27 GMT -6
If you read a bit of the other threads you will realize it’s the old farts here me and DrBill who are pushing the Gefell UM70/71, everybody else is pushing a mic that is trying to be a classic. Well if Gefell were to ever be stupid enough to quit making the UM70/71 it would be a classic everyone would be trying to emulate! On Reverb right now you can find a couple of UM71’s for less than $1K! $1000 buys you a real M7, okay it might be a later one with the environmentally friendly diaphragm, but it’s stll as close as anything you can buy today to a classic M7, made by the people who made the classic M7!
It’s also probably the only mic anybody has mentioned that will hold its value if you don’t fall in love and want to flip it.
Look a couple of months ago the local GC was offering me a deal on a very nice 47fet, it was pretty it said Neumann, it said 47, but all I could think was I could have a nice pair of used UM70’s and some cash for something else and be much happier!
I sold as many UM70/71’s as anyone out there and I can’t think of a single person I sold one to was disipointed or who has even sold their Gefell 20 years later, they are that kind of mic!
Look they have been building these for 50+ years with the only changes being improved amplifier and a change so we can all continue breathing and using these wonderful mics.
The only other thing I can think of that for close to the same money that will put this kind of smile on your face is a used KM84 a very different beast!
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