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Post by indiehouse on Jun 21, 2018 20:47:03 GMT -6
Sounds like some of our gear purchases are going to get more expensive. Does this apply to eBay/Reverb as well?
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Post by Bender on Jun 21, 2018 21:13:17 GMT -6
I'm not sure, but certainly tagging along. Reverb doesn't send out 1099K forms unless you have over 200 Transactions a year AND 20K in gross sales...so loopholes are out there but I'm sure they'll be closing sooner than later going by how money thirsty our "representatives" for pleasing the machine & their donators.
Reverb already had an option to charge sales tax to same state buyers but with the recent supreme court decision who knows
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2018 21:31:51 GMT -6
Sounds like some of our gear purchases are going to get more expensive. Does this apply to eBay/Reverb as well? Only from dealers, technically you were always supposed to pay it on your state income taxes so we all have been breaking the law.. Now if you have all the proper papers and are set up as a production company or recording studio, your gear purchases should be sales tax exempt, and you should be deprecating your equipment. Even if you are not, if you keep all your receipts your sales tax can be deducted on your Federal Taxes. Now here is an important thing to consider, they from what I have read only addressed STATE sales taxes, not local, county, city TIF or other taxing districts, this means you could still save money buying online or out of state. Well until some mayor realizes they have a case and some precedent, BradD if you read this and think about calling Sly and have an idea, I won’t be happy😁!!!! Now, in 1992 our software at Full Compass was ready for this, we knew the tax rate for every zip code so anybody who says this going to be a problem for their company has either had their head in the sand, is stupid and shouldn’t be in business! We all knew this axe could fall at anytime, and kept it out of congress by the simple fact that almost every district has at least one major employer in the e-commerace mail order biz. It’s not a new law, or really a new interpretation, it’s simply we’re going to make the seller responsible not the buyer for collection.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2018 21:39:41 GMT -6
I'm not sure, but certainly tagging along. Reverb doesn't send out 1099K forms unless you have over 200 Transactions a year AND 20K in gross sales...so loopholes are out there but I'm sure they'll be closing sooner than later going by how money thirsty our "representatives" for pleasing the machine & their donators.
Reverb already had an option to charge sales tax to same state buyers but with the recent supreme court decision who knows
It will come down to their and the IRS interpretation of what is a “dealer” or business selling used equipment, if your buying new your going to be taxed. Not to be political but where this could get interesting is guys selling at gun shows, if the ATF adopts the same standards as the IRS for what’s a buisness a lot of guys who have a “hobby” of selling guns milking the gun show exemption could suddenly find themselves needing an ATF licenses and find themselves needing to do background checks. So the gear world is simple by comparison.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 21, 2018 22:41:09 GMT -6
This could basically shut me down on big orders.
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 6:27:12 GMT -6
This could basically shut me down on big orders. It will change the game, but consider this, everybody is in the same boat on this one and most don’t have local dealers worth a crap. It might mean an advantage to those who actually have things in stock, but I doubt anybody is suddenly going to carry ore inventory. It could mean he who drops his pants has an advantage, but they always had that advantage. All it really means is you no longer automatically beat the guy in the same state as the buyer. I would be more worried about the affects of a tit for tat trade war on goods and parts.
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Post by svart on Jun 22, 2018 6:36:17 GMT -6
I've had to pay internet sales tax for a long time now. I can't remember the last time I didn't see sales tax on an online purchase.
Remember, you're FREE.
As long as you render unto caesar.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2018 8:59:28 GMT -6
This could basically shut me down on big orders. It will change the game, but consider this, everybody is in the same boat on this one and most don’t have local dealers worth a crap. It might mean an advantage to those who actually have things in stock, but I doubt anybody is suddenly going to carry ore inventory. It could mean he who drops his pants has an advantage, but they always had that advantage. All it really means is you no longer automatically beat the guy in the same state as the buyer. I would be more worried about the affects of a tit for tat trade war on goods and parts. I’ve got two guys buying Tele 251s...the first guy is doing it here soon so I might still get that sale, but the other guy needed to wait till August...that’s like an $800 increase. Of course, he’s going to have to pay it no matter who he gets it from...Sweetwater no longer has that advantage.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 9:26:21 GMT -6
It will change the game, but consider this, everybody is in the same boat on this one and most don’t have local dealers worth a crap. It might mean an advantage to those who actually have things in stock, but I doubt anybody is suddenly going to carry ore inventory. It could mean he who drops his pants has an advantage, but they always had that advantage. All it really means is you no longer automatically beat the guy in the same state as the buyer. I would be more worried about the affects of a tit for tat trade war on goods and parts. I’ve got two guys buying Tele 251s...the first guy is doing it here soon so I might still get that sale, but the other guy needed to wait till August...that’s like an $800 increase. Of course, he’s going to have to pay it no matter who he gets it from...Sweetwater no longer has that advantage. A number of years ago Sweetwater had a guy in Chicago doing outside sales calls trying to build institutional business. He did OK, but the fact that suddenly the entire state of Illinois had to pay sales tax, Long term the lower margin high cost of building the lower margin institutional wasn’t worth it. For a short time we tried to follow suite, but we did it out of Milwaukee, so we wouldn’t take the hit but couldn’t find the right guy. Now, 95% of my personal accounts were located in WI so anybody could have beat me on sales tax (5% state at the time), but yet I was able to thrive. If I was still in the game I would sit down with my accountant and a tax lawyer to set up my personal production company and share what I learn with my clients, saving clients big money over time, not just on the one time deal will earn you more long term loyalty. The buyer you really want to do business with is going to care more about what you bring to the table than the tax.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2018 10:02:17 GMT -6
Tax in TN is almost 10%. That’s a hefty chunk for both the big time hobbiest and pro addict. While I understand what you’re saying, I think 90% of the time, people will go with the cheaper price all other things being equal.
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Post by matt on Jun 22, 2018 10:41:13 GMT -6
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Post by jsteiger on Jun 22, 2018 10:44:06 GMT -6
Currently this new law is only for South Dakota. If a business ships over 200 orders OR $100k worth of merchandise into South Dakota there must be sales tax collected and remitted to South Dakota. The problem is, this will likely open the door for all states to say "me too".
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 10:46:35 GMT -6
Tax in TN is almost 10%. That’s a hefty chunk for both the big time hobbiest and pro addict. While I understand what you’re saying, I think 90% of the time, people will go with the cheaper price all other things being equal. Yes but it will be the buyers State tax that will be changed, not the sellers. So everything is equal. Plus at this point it is only state being collected not local. So if your buyer is in TN he will pay the same tax no matter who he buys from.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2018 10:47:56 GMT -6
Currently this new law is only for South Dakota. If a business ships over 200 orders OR $100k worth of merchandise into South Dakota there must be sales tax collected and remitted to South Dakota. The problem is, this will likely open the door for all states to say "me too". Isn’t this what we threw tea off the damn boat about? Politicians that we didn’t elect from other states/countries levying taxes on my goods?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 22, 2018 10:50:51 GMT -6
Tax in TN is almost 10%. That’s a hefty chunk for both the big time hobbiest and pro addict. While I understand what you’re saying, I think 90% of the time, people will go with the cheaper price all other things being equal. Yes but it will be the buyers State tax that will be changed, not the sellers. So everything is equal. Plus at this point it is only state being collected not local. So if your buyer is in TN he will pay the same tax no matter who he buys from. Are you sure? I would think the sales tax that would be charged would be from the point of the sale. So - all sales that I make would be subject to TN state sales tax.
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 10:51:35 GMT -6
Currently this new law is only for South Dakota. If a business ships over 200 orders OR $100k worth of merchandise into South Dakota there must be sales tax collected and remitted to South Dakota. The problem is, this will likely open the door for all states to say "me too". Every state has been looking at this for years, there have been countless attempts to enforce it through legislation but they all failed, going the court route was something new. Precedent has been set, instant revenue for every state with a sales tax without raising rates. No sane state government is going to walk away from this one.
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Post by drbill on Jun 22, 2018 10:53:52 GMT -6
CA has been TRYING to get sellers from across the US to collect CA State sales tax for 20 years +. Especially LARGE ticket items like $100-300k+ consoles. Some businesses caved in and collected their tax. Most flipped CA the bird, and there was nothing that CA could do about it.
I think we all knew this was coming sooner or later. Honestly, I can't believe we've made it for as long as we have.....
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 10:57:49 GMT -6
Currently this new law is only for South Dakota. If a business ships over 200 orders OR $100k worth of merchandise into South Dakota there must be sales tax collected and remitted to South Dakota. The problem is, this will likely open the door for all states to say "me too". Isn’t this what we threw tea off the damn boat about? Politicians that we didn’t elect from other states/countries levying taxes on my goods? Again everybody was responsible for paying this on their state taxes for years, we all just got away with it because it would have been more expensive and impossible to enforce. Your parents probably voted for the guys who put these laws, ineffective as they might be in place. So this is not taxation without representation, it’s been taxation without enforcement. Think of it as that stretch of road with a 55mph speed limt where everybody goes 75 MPH because there has never been a cop, well now there is always a cop with radar.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 11:01:54 GMT -6
CA has been TRYING to get sellers from across the US to collect CA State sales tax for 20 years +. Especially LARGE ticket items like $100-300k+ consoles. Some businesses caved in and collected their tax. Most flipped CA the bird, and there was nothing that CA could do about it. I think we all knew this was coming sooner or later. Honestly, I can't believe we've made it for as long as we have..... The argument for years was how hard it would be to collect and keep track of all these different taxes, like I said at Full Co we were ready in the early 90’s. Anybody who isn’t needs better software. I’m sure accountants and tax attorneys will be very busy and happy.
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Post by jsteiger on Jun 22, 2018 11:02:27 GMT -6
Isn’t this what we threw tea off the damn boat about? Politicians that we didn’t elect from other states/countries levying taxes on my goods? Again everybody was responsible for paying this on their state taxes for years, we all just got away with it because it would have been more expensive and impossible to enforce. This is the truth and most consumers don't know they are liable to remit their own state use tax.
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 11:10:52 GMT -6
Again everybody was responsible for paying this on their state taxes for years, we all just got away with it because it would have been more expensive and impossible to enforce. This is the truth and most consumers don't know they are liable to remit their own state use tax. Yep and as it’s just state as of now TN is only 7% state that as of now is probably going to be collected the rest is local. Here in MO it’s 4.95, I pay another 5-6 percent in local sales taxes, KS a 3 min. Drive is 6.5%, I checked to see if it would make sense to set up a P.O. box 😎!
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Post by matt on Jun 22, 2018 11:16:07 GMT -6
It's yet another case of technology subverting the status quo. When you think about it, being able to instantly purchase something -anything!- from someone thousands of miles away is a game-changing shift in the retail sales paradigm and has already had a seismic impact on the business world. This latest is part of the fallout. As sellers and purchasers of expensive gear, we have enjoyed the interim period. I am sad to see it go, as is my wallet. I foresee deeper discounting to make up for the painful bump in final prices.
In one of those random connections that happens in life, I worked at Sears in the 90s and I remember the then-CEO saying that in his opinion, the Internet was a place for crackpots and would never amount to anything. The company shut down it's catalog just as online sales started taking off. The penalty has been harsh, as it always is in business- Sears has been on a death watch for years, and will no doubt disappear. The store I worked at in urban Phoenix is closing, along with 100s of others. Survival of the fittest, distilled. The American Way.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 11:20:35 GMT -6
It's yet another case of technology subverting the status quo. When you think about it, being able to instantly purchase something -anything!- from someone thousands of miles away is a game-changing shift in the retail sales paradigm and has already had a seismic impact on the business world. This latest is part of the fallout. As sellers and purchasers of expensive gear, we have enjoyed the interim period. I am sad to see it go, as is my wallet. I foresee deeper discounting to make up for the painful bump in final prices. In one of those random connections that happens in life, I worked at Sears in the 90s and I remember the then-CEO saying that in his opinion, the Internet was a place for crackpots and would never amount to anything. The company shut down it's catalog just as online sales started taking off. The penalty has been harsh, as it always is in business- Sears has been on a death watch for years, and will no doubt disappear. The store I worked at in urban Phoenix is closing, along with 100s of others. Survival of the fittest, distilled. The American way. The one thing nobody has been talking about is the fact that suddenly the penalty for setting up a distribution center in another state is gone! This might mean we all get stuff faster. Look collecting taxes in every state hasn’t hurt Amazon one bit!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 11:29:04 GMT -6
Speaking as someone whose business is nearly entirely online, I've been waiting for this for quite some time. My dread is not really based on collecting and paying the taxes--as long as it's easy to manage. The real issue is whether or not I (or my accountant) have to worry about the time administering and paying a small amount for a state where I do limited sales. In those cases, a handful of sales probably aren't worth the bother. Kansas (the original plaintiff) was trying to establish $100K in sales--for sales in the state of Kansas--as the trigger for collecting taxes. That seems pretty reasonable and I hope that other states come to similar conclusions.
This party's been nice while it lasted, but it really had to end sometime. We all like smooth roads, good schools and safe public places. Those aren't free. I don't mind paying for that and I hope it's the same for my customers. It's true that every state will spend tax money in ways we don't like. Utah, where I live, always seems to spend a few million a year on stupid moralistic message bills. But they would anyway. The slow death of brick-and-mortar meant those taxes weren't being paid. I don't think this so-called "level playing field" is going to bring them back (we all like pushing the "buy" button and having UPS show up two days later). But it's kind of hard to argue against paying for what we use.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 22, 2018 11:43:12 GMT -6
Currently this new law is only for South Dakota. If a business ships over 200 orders OR $100k worth of merchandise into South Dakota there must be sales tax collected and remitted to South Dakota. The problem is, this will likely open the door for all states to say "me too". Isn’t this what we threw tea off the damn boat about? Politicians that we didn’t elect from other states/countries levying taxes on my goods? Eh, I don't think so. The status quo was upheld once before on the basis that internet commerce needed a kickstart, and that ship has long sailed. I feel like it's about 50/50 on online retailers collecting my NC sales tax, or not, and it's been that way for awhile. The most ironic bit would probably be folks who advocate a flat tax being outraged about this. NC taxes have headed more in that direction, with more categories of sales taxes coming into effect to make up for the 'tax cuts' (in the top brackets). It used to only be goods that were taxed here, now most services are as well.
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