kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Mastering
Jul 5, 2018 18:31:25 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 5, 2018 18:31:25 GMT -6
I ask as ironically one of the most recommended mastering lacquer cutting shops is using apollo.
I’m using symphony mkii and the MA I am most thinking about is using burl, so am a bit non plussed about the final conversion going through apollo?
Maybe silly m, but I have spent a fair bit of dough getting out of ua so to have my lacquer cut through apollo just seems ironic ?
So, that’s why I was asking, how important are the converters in the last box before the lathe ?
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 5, 2018 18:51:35 GMT -6
Yeah, I'd think the DAC used for cutting would have to matter as much as any DAC in the process up to that point. Not as much as the lathe and the cutting engineer's skills, but it would still matter.
Do you know if it's an older Apollo or the newer with upgraded converters? If the older then that would give me pause. I haven't heard the newer, but the older ones did not impress me...
|
|
|
Mastering
Jul 5, 2018 18:53:12 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by christopher on Jul 5, 2018 18:53:12 GMT -6
That's a little bit of a letdown. Maybe they should upgrade to the Pro-Ject S2? Could they maybe play audio at 32 bit if they did?
Thanks for sharing the files. I think the loudness diff is in the bright way the MCI reels smash stuff. I do really love it, crank up the input gain and it gets all driving and glued, and funky, and the lows have this harmonic punchy tightness thing, makes me happy. I thought 2 to be MCI right away but then I thought maybe Zulu could get there. 3 it wasn't a loudness thing that turned me off, it was an instant feeling midrange thing I knew in less than a second, kind of swirly or detached or something. My ears were pretty jacked though, so who knows what I was hearing.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Mastering
Jul 5, 2018 19:19:50 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 5, 2018 19:19:50 GMT -6
It’s a bf but I had an apollo sf, had it bla modded, had a bf and in between had a 2192 and a burl b2 and a dangerous dbox.
They all sounded different and I sold the bf and got the symphony mkii which I prefer.
This house is not the only game in town and do have a really good rep and a Neumann lathe. This is a learning process for me so I want to understand it’s rlrment’s as best I can.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
|
Post by ericn on Jul 5, 2018 20:44:56 GMT -6
Years ago I learned not to judge somebody by the equipment but by their results.
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 5, 2018 22:01:29 GMT -6
Yes results are all that matters in the end.
Still it seems odd to have a Neumann lathe (high end) and pair it with an Apollo when much higher end DACs are readily available.
Who knows, maybe it's a perfect pairing like when a singer's voice clicks with a SM57 over a U87...
If I were you I'd talk to them about it before making a final decision.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Mastering
Jul 6, 2018 0:49:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 6, 2018 0:49:33 GMT -6
I just found it odd too and I have spoken to them about it and I am certainly not second guessing the engineer’s competence. I can be romantic and say, oh , full circle back to where I started or pragmatic and say , ah so why did I spend all that time and effort ditching my ua stuff going to apogee , the delta and real OB just to push my final signal through the apollo ?
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jul 6, 2018 1:23:55 GMT -6
I just found it odd too and I have spoken to them about it and I am certainly not second guessing the engineer’s competence. I can be romantic and say, oh , full circle back to where I started or pragmatic and say , ah so why did I spend all that time and effort ditching my ua stuff going to apogee , the delta and real OB just to push my final signal through the apollo ? Two masters...one for vinyl..one for CD/digital distribution ? cheers Wiz
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Mastering
Jul 6, 2018 4:30:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 6, 2018 4:30:59 GMT -6
Yes, I am to receive two mastered digital files, one for CD, one for vinyl.
The lacquering process requires the file to be played, to output to the lathe, of course, back to the apollo issue.
I know the company has a very good rep so perhaps much ado about nothing but it doesn’t sit well with me,
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 6, 2018 8:18:57 GMT -6
If it really doesn't sit well with you then you might have a feeling of doubt about the record for the rest of your life, no matter how great it sounds.
"It might have sounded better if only..."
Right or wrong, to me that's a good enough reason to look elsewhere...
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 6, 2018 12:17:57 GMT -6
Exactly, how I am feeling !!
Wiz encouraged me to remember, I’ll never have another first album and while I don’t have unlimited funds, I do want to get what I believe is my best album for me and my listeners.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 7, 2018 19:22:58 GMT -6
Btw As Justin went to a lot of trouble to send me 5 samples including going to tape and as the communications has been great: knowledgable, professional and interested, I am working with Justin from Trackworx.
I did all my final session mixes and sent off the wav files so the train has left the station !
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2018 8:22:22 GMT -6
Been exploring other cutting options and their equipment.
Another relatively local company has this:
Here is a list of equipment we have in our cutting studio:
Neumann VMS-82 cutting lathe
Neumann SAL-84 modified amplifiers
Neumann SX-84 cutting head
Neumann SP-79 mastering console with new control panels for VVM and A/B analogue signal paths JBL 4343 studio monitor system Top quality PrismSound Orpheus audio interface for DA/AD conversions Telefunken M15A tape player with playback and preview heads Tesla NC 440 direct drive turntable for playback of DMM plates and test pressings
Impressive: thoughts ?
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2018 8:28:07 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 10, 2018 9:29:16 GMT -6
DMM is said to result in tighter lows and edgier highs (I translate that as "more like digital"). Thus you MIGHT expect a more "classic vinyl sound" from a lacquer cut. Maybe. Though technically the lacquer cut will have more noise and distortion of sorts. The Wiki article you linked explains it.
The majority of my local clientele use a vinyl broker who farms production out to a DMM plant in the Czech Republic. I have never noticed any unpleasant change to the sound, though I've never been able to compare vs a lacquer cut of the same material.
The Czech plant did have a strange humming/whirring noise problem for a while but they resolved it eventually.
A few recent major label vinyl releases have amazing sounding vinyl. I can't find a DMM logo on them...
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2018 10:02:53 GMT -6
So far, my local choices are apollo and vinyl or orpheus and DMM.
|
|
|
Post by trakworxmastering on Jul 10, 2018 10:09:00 GMT -6
Been exploring other cutting options and their equipment. Another relatively local company has this: Here is a list of equipment we have in our cutting studio:
Neumann VMS-82 cutting lathe
Neumann SAL-84 modified amplifiers
Neumann SX-84 cutting head
Neumann SP-79 mastering console with new control panels for VVM and A/B analogue signal paths JBL 4343 studio monitor system Top quality PrismSound Orpheus audio interface for DA/AD conversions Telefunken M15A tape player with playback and preview heads Tesla NC 440 direct drive turntable for playback of DMM plates and test pressings
Impressive: thoughts ? They've certainly got the right gear. But do they have the right engineer?
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
|
Post by ericn on Jul 10, 2018 10:22:49 GMT -6
See again for me it’s going to come down to listening to what they have done, at the end of the day it’s results final product that matters not the gear list. It’s easy to win the gear wars just spend more, but knowing how to use what you have well that’s another strory.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 15,219
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 10, 2018 10:36:35 GMT -6
|
|