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Post by bram on Jun 11, 2018 14:18:13 GMT -6
Seeing all of these veterans in interviews and magazine promo shots with dozens of compressors, EQ's, and outboard processors lining their studio walls got me wondering - how does one practically make use of all that gear? I would imagine many of those guys have assistants that they call out the instructions to, "Go up to the Pultec and give me a 2dB boost at 100Hz."
To those of you mixing/mastering with outboard gear in your studio without an assistant, how do you make informed EQ and compressor adjustments when your gear isn't at the desk? I've resorted to throwing a pair of headphones on and making adjustments from there, but when my ears have been adjusted to the mains and I switch over briefly to headphones, my perception is totally skewed.
(PS - I just hit 100 posts! First time I've ever felt inspired enough to actually participate and contribute regularly to an online community. Y'all are awesome!)
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 11, 2018 14:31:50 GMT -6
When I was assisting full time it just depended on the engineer. Some would ask me to change gear while they sat at the console, others would just get up and do it themselves, sit down and listen, get up and tweak a bit more, etc. I think it’s all down to who is using the gear and how comfortable they are in the room.
Other times the engineer would expect a pretty decent mix going before they walked into the room and they would tweak from there. If I had a good relationship with them I knew what their go to gear was for certain things. I’d have their 2 bus all set up and the Settings they usually had going.
I assisted (and still do from time to time for certain engineers) for about 8 years. Thinking about the other topic of 2 bus eq, it’s funny to me as EVERY engineer had some form of compression or Eq on the 2 mix. It was a part of their sound.
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Post by drbill on Jun 11, 2018 15:26:19 GMT -6
My (important gear) IS in the desk. (Sterling Modular mastering style desk) It's one of the main reasons I sold the console. I like having my constantly used outboard right in front of me more than I like having a console in front of me. If it's sensitive or needs constant tweaking, it's in the desk. Right at my fingertips. Second, I gravitate to gear with switched pots, detented pots, wide sweet spots, etc. so that I rarely have to "move settings" - I just use an input trim in front of the insert in PTHD to drive it how I like. My Splice 1176's, Serpent 3a's, LA2a's, Weight tanks, and most of my other comps are this way. I have the sweet spot I like pre-set, and I leave em there unless it's absolutely necessary to change them. The piece I'll insert either works, or it doesn't - and I move on to something else that does. 96 channels of DA/AD and lots of outboard helps with this quite a bit.  But there are times I'm forced back into the Box to use a plugin. Still. there is always going to be stuff that NEEDS adjusting / tweaking, and hopefully it's easily recallable and in my desk. But at this point in time, I pretty much won't buy : 1.) any mixing device - such as a console or summing box. They are a don't go there for me..... or, 2.) anything that is not easily recallable. Although I might like a mixer or something that's extremely fiddly, either of those completely breaks my mixing groove. It's a choice that disappoints me sometimes, but I have to work for a living, and having a studio that's close to 100% analogized, yet still ITB - i.e.: hybrid - is super important to earning a living for me. All I can say is that it's WAAAAAAAY better than mixing ITB for me. To accommodate this style of working, I start with a master document that shows ALL the settings on ALL my gear. That master document may change depending on whether I'm mixing an Orchestral score vs. an americana album. The master settings document always gets visited before I start a big mix project. During the mixing part of the gig, if something needs changing (and there's usually SOMEthing that does) then it gets notated in pro tools comment section. Completely recalling my 96i/o system rarely takes me more than 5 minutes. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 11, 2018 15:30:34 GMT -6
Seeing all of these veterans in interviews and magazine promo shots with dozens of compressors, EQ's, and outboard processors lining their studio walls got me wondering - how does one practically make use of all that gear? I would imagine many of those guys have assistants that they call out the instructions to, "Go up to the Pultec and give me a 2dB boost at 100Hz." To those of you mixing/mastering with outboard gear in your studio without an assistant, how do you make informed EQ and compressor adjustments when your gear isn't at the desk? I've resorted to throwing a pair of headphones on and making adjustments from there, but when my ears have been adjusted to the mains and I switch over briefly to headphones, my perception is totally skewed. (PS - I just hit 100 posts! First time I've ever felt inspired enough to actually participate and contribute regularly to an online community. Y'all are awesome!) How?
With patch cords, usually.
Ergonomically? Most of my gear is quite near the desk, as it has been at the better studios I've been at, although they have even more of it.
I've seen a lot of photos of newer studios that did not appear to me to have been set up by experienced people. Like maybe they had been set up to look cool in website photos, but not so ergonomically for work. A line of waist-high racks set up behind the console doesn't photograph all that well. In my case, my rack of comps, etc is to one side of the desk.
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Post by christopher on Jun 11, 2018 18:52:26 GMT -6
One cure that isn't too expensive, a cheap self powered monitor or two that can be placed wherever you need it. One studio I went to in the 90s even put a car stereo with 6x9's on a panel, store demo style, into the rack on the back wall, that was awesome. For me usually I appreciate the opportunity to get up and walk out of the sweet spot and adjust from a distance, in my space anyway. It took me a long time to learn that I'm just not that great in the sweet spot anyway. So I do probably 70%-90% of all work from off axis, then when it's final mixing I'll get in the sweet spot and make sure I didn't screw up. Not that I'm totally happy with my mixes, but I feel much less surprised working this way.
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Post by popmann on Jun 11, 2018 19:50:20 GMT -6
I think you probably overestimate the amount of "tweak time" based on having used plug ins and "unlimited everything" in a DAW.
When you grow up tracking through hardware to....X multitrack....you get good at setting things on the fly quickly--and that was ALWAYS a prerequisite for mixing anything. So, when I had racks, I can't say there was ever a ton of tweaking....but, I also had mine built on rollers....snake to/fro....so, I had the racks built into the desk....and the the rolling rack that was tucked away to the side until mix time, when I'd pull it out beside the chair.
expensive hardware rarely sounds "better"....so much as it sounds "better quicker"....or "better in a wider range of settings" or....I'm trying not to get into semantics--but, it really isn't much about the end result, as much as the road to getting there.
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Post by drbill on Jun 11, 2018 20:08:49 GMT -6
Seeing all of these veterans in interviews and magazine promo shots with dozens of compressors, EQ's, and outboard processors lining their studio walls got me wondering - how does one practically make use of all that gear? I would imagine many of those guys have assistants that they call out the instructions to, "Go up to the Pultec and give me a 2dB boost at 100Hz." To those of you mixing/mastering with outboard gear in your studio without an assistant, how do you make informed EQ and compressor adjustments when your gear isn't at the desk? I've resorted to throwing a pair of headphones on and making adjustments from there, but when my ears have been adjusted to the mains and I switch over briefly to headphones, my perception is totally skewed. (PS - I just hit 100 posts! First time I've ever felt inspired enough to actually participate and contribute regularly to an online community. Y'all are awesome!) How?
With patch cords, usually.. John - at this point I don't think so. Tracking, yes, absolutely, but most guys I know who are mixing with lots of gear have their bays half-normaled / normaled so that they can insert the outboard right into PT with zero cable changes or patching. It makes things 1000X's quicker, and recall is as easy as opening your PT session. Using patch cables is of course a nightmare for recall..... |
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 11, 2018 20:24:26 GMT -6
How?
With patch cords, usually.. John - at this point I don't think so. Tracking, yes, absolutely, but most guys I know who are mixing with lots of gear have their bays half-normaled / normaled so that they can insert the outboard right into PT with zero cable changes or patching. It makes things 1000X's quicker, and recall is as easy as opening your PT session. Using patch cables is of course a nightmare for recall..... Mixing stuff you didn't track is a somewhat different animal. And we don't have stuff normalled because we don't have "default processing". Some instruments, sure, to some degree, but not everything by any means. And our mixing is not ITB. Don't much like boxes. |
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Post by drbill on Jun 11, 2018 20:43:11 GMT -6
This has nothing to do with whether I tracked it or not. I'm not sure what your comment means....unless you are talking about mixing with a console. Which I don't think this thread is about.
I don't mix ITB, and I don't mix OTB (console) anymore. I mix Hybrid.
Here (and at a lot of hybrid oriented mix studio's) - EVERY single piece of gear is brought into the bay as is every PT i/o. Each piece of gear IS in fact normaled to a PT i/o. Inserting hardware into my DAW session is actually faster and easier than a plugin, and WAY faster than patching it in with cables. (no wait time for a plugin to instantiate, and no reaching for a patch cord.) Every piece of gear comes up named, and is ready to be inserted into my DAW by default in my i/o matrix. It's a sweet way to work. Chaining is decided INSIDE PT and a piece of cake. If I want I can get down on my knees and patch a few cables....well....I still can. But it's been a couple months since I did that. I could never go back to how you're doing it - console or no console.
My personal opinion and $0.02 devalued to $0.00025634 for streaming payouts.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 12, 2018 8:50:59 GMT -6
How?
With patch cords, usually.. John - at this point I don't think so. Tracking, yes, absolutely, but most guys I know who are mixing with lots of gear have their bays half-normaled / normaled so that they can insert the outboard right into PT with zero cable changes or patching. It makes things 1000X's quicker, and recall is as easy as opening your PT session. Using patch cables is of course a nightmare for recall..... I use both. My hardware is patched via the a/d/d/a so that I can use them as inserts, but when I track I can patch the preamp out to my hardware and then patch back into the a-d of the recorded channel.  My desk  |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 8:57:41 GMT -6
My (important gear) IS in the desk. (Sterling Modular mastering style desk) It's one of the main reasons I sold the console. I like having my constantly used outboard right in front of me more than I like having a console in front of me. If it's sensitive or needs constant tweaking, it's in the desk. Right at my fingertips. Second, I gravitate to gear with switched pots, detented pots, wide sweet spots, etc. so that I rarely have to "move settings" - I just use an input trim in front of the insert in PTHD to drive it how I like. My Splice 1176's, Serpent 3a's, LA2a's, Weight tanks, and most of my other comps are this way. I have the sweet spot I like pre-set, and I leave em there unless it's absolutely necessary to change them. The piece I'll insert either works, or it doesn't - and I move on to something else that does. 96 channels of DA/AD and lots of outboard helps with this quite a bit. But there are times I'm forced back into the Box to use a plugin. Still. there is always going to be stuff that NEEDS adjusting / tweaking, and hopefully it's easily recallable and in my desk. But at this point in time, I pretty much won't buy : 1.) any mixing device - such as a console or summing box. They are a don't go there for me..... or, 2.) anything that is not easily recallable. Although I might like a mixer or something that's extremely fiddly, either of those completely breaks my mixing groove. It's a choice that disappoints me sometimes, but I have to work for a living, and having a studio that's close to 100% analogized, yet still ITB - i.e.: hybrid - is super important to earning a living for me. All I can say is that it's WAAAAAAAY better than mixing ITB for me. To accommodate this style of working, I start with a master document that shows ALL the settings on ALL my gear. That master document may change depending on whether I'm mixing an Orchestral score vs. an americana album. The master settings document always gets visited before I start a big mix project. During the mixing part of the gig, if something needs changing (and there's usually SOMEthing that does) then it gets notated in pro tools comment section. Completely recalling my 96i/o system rarely takes me more than 5 minutes. Man you work EXACTLY how I want to setup my own system. Except im gonna go for the CAPI summing box as thats hardly any recall other than pushing a few buttons. Even then, I bet i'll start working in a format that I'll rarely have to change that either. |
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Post by svart on Jun 12, 2018 9:07:27 GMT -6
Most of my outboard is set up for a "sound".. Like if I want more crack of the snare, I patch in 1176 #1 into the insert and maybe tweak a little level. At this point, I don't try to use outboard for "fixing" things, I use it for a specific tone or character it gives me.
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2018 9:21:46 GMT -6
John - at this point I don't think so. Tracking, yes, absolutely, but most guys I know who are mixing with lots of gear have their bays half-normaled / normaled so that they can insert the outboard right into PT with zero cable changes or patching. It makes things 1000X's quicker, and recall is as easy as opening your PT session. Using patch cables is of course a nightmare for recall..... I use both. My hardware is patched via the a/d/d/a so that I can use them as inserts, but when I can track I can track the preamp out to my hardware and then back into the a-d of the recorded channel. My deskYes. Exactly the same here. When tracking, the patch cables come out - although I've finally got my tracking rig pretty streamlined. For mixing - it's all patched and inserted inside PTHDX. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 12, 2018 9:24:04 GMT -6
drbill I hadn't thought about half normalling and not using cables Right now I am mixing 14 songs for my first album and I have ended up creating a sort of default set up,specific i/o to specific OB comps I use logic i/o utility to send/receive daw channels to my OB/delta eq. So, for efficiency's sake I could set up dedicated i/o: right and not use the cables? I have the samsung pathcbays with the normaling switches on the front, so easy to change. thx !
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2018 9:29:55 GMT -6
My (important gear) IS in the desk. (Sterling Modular mastering style desk) It's one of the main reasons I sold the console. I like having my constantly used outboard right in front of me more than I like having a console in front of me. If it's sensitive or needs constant tweaking, it's in the desk. Right at my fingertips. Second, I gravitate to gear with switched pots, detented pots, wide sweet spots, etc. so that I rarely have to "move settings" - I just use an input trim in front of the insert in PTHD to drive it how I like. My Splice 1176's, Serpent 3a's, LA2a's, Weight tanks, and most of my other comps are this way. I have the sweet spot I like pre-set, and I leave em there unless it's absolutely necessary to change them. The piece I'll insert either works, or it doesn't - and I move on to something else that does. 96 channels of DA/AD and lots of outboard helps with this quite a bit. But there are times I'm forced back into the Box to use a plugin. Still. there is always going to be stuff that NEEDS adjusting / tweaking, and hopefully it's easily recallable and in my desk. But at this point in time, I pretty much won't buy : 1.) any mixing device - such as a console or summing box. They are a don't go there for me..... or, 2.) anything that is not easily recallable. Although I might like a mixer or something that's extremely fiddly, either of those completely breaks my mixing groove. It's a choice that disappoints me sometimes, but I have to work for a living, and having a studio that's close to 100% analogized, yet still ITB - i.e.: hybrid - is super important to earning a living for me. All I can say is that it's WAAAAAAAY better than mixing ITB for me. To accommodate this style of working, I start with a master document that shows ALL the settings on ALL my gear. That master document may change depending on whether I'm mixing an Orchestral score vs. an americana album. The master settings document always gets visited before I start a big mix project. During the mixing part of the gig, if something needs changing (and there's usually SOMEthing that does) then it gets notated in pro tools comment section. Completely recalling my 96i/o system rarely takes me more than 5 minutes. Man you work EXACTLY how I want to setup my own system. Except im gonna go for the CAPI summing box as thats hardly any recall other than pushing a few buttons. Even then, I bet i'll start working in a format that I'll rarely have to change that either. I'm sure Jeff's box is awesome. As a disclaimer, I have never used it - but I have used his vp28's on mix buss and also the missing links. Both did a good job. I've got a pretty good handle on the CAPI sound. But with the state of DAW's in 2018, do you really need an OTB summing box to do the summing and get the sound you want? In my travels, I've been able to achieve virtually the same sonics with 2 analog channel chains on the 2 buss as opposed to 16-24+ channels "summed" OTB and back in. Then adding individual inserts of analog gear takes it WAY over the top for me. Just my personal experience. Although I had an emotional connection with my console and worked that way for decades, I waited way to long to sell it. My mixes honestly sound better mixing hybrid on inserts - without the console. If I had another room, it would have the console in it for tracking and emotional vibe, but for mixing....it's a hybrid approach all the way for me. My $0.02 |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 9:31:19 GMT -6
drbill I hadn't thought about half normalling and not using cables Right now I am mixing 14 songs for my first album and I have ended up creating a sort of default set up,specific i/o to specific OB comps I use logic i/o utility to send/receive daw channels to my OB/delta eq. So, for efficiency's sake I could set up dedicated i/o: right and not use the cables? I have the samsung pathcbays with the normaling switches on the front, so easy to change. thx ! Yeah be much more efficient to setup so your D/A output go to a patch bay, then the patch bay is half normaled to inputs of gear. Outputs of gear are then half normaled to the same A/D channel and you just setup in the DAW a hardware insert. No patch cables required. But you still have the ability to float the insert or patch into gear for other purposes if needed. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 9:33:46 GMT -6
Man you work EXACTLY how I want to setup my own system. Except im gonna go for the CAPI summing box as thats hardly any recall other than pushing a few buttons. Even then, I bet i'll start working in a format that I'll rarely have to change that either. I'm sure Jeff's box is awesome. As a disclaimer, I have never used it - but I have used his vp28's on mix buss and also the missing links. Both did a good job. I've got a pretty good handle on the CAPI sound. But with the state of DAW's in 2018, do you really need an OTB summing box to do the summing and get the sound you want? In my travels, I've been able to achieve virtually the same sonics with 2 analog channel chains on the 2 buss as opposed to 16-24+ channels "summed" OTB and back in. Then adding individual inserts of analog gear takes it WAY over the top for me. Just my personal experience. Although I had an emotional connection with my console and worked that way for decades, I waited way to long to sell it. My mixes honestly sound better mixing hybrid on inserts - without the console. If I had another room, it would have the console in it for tracking and emotional vibe, but for mixing....it's a hybrid approach all the way for me. My $0.02 Totally understand. In a way. I still think doing OTB summing can do some great things ITB can't do. But you're right you can add some great voodoo just on the 2 bus and get very similar results. Jealous of your setup. I'd like to get to where your at someday, one piece of gear at a time.. |
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2018 10:13:33 GMT -6
drbill I hadn't thought about half normalling and not using cables Right now I am mixing 14 songs for my first album and I have ended up creating a sort of default set up,specific i/o to specific OB comps I use logic i/o utility to send/receive daw channels to my OB/delta eq. So, for efficiency's sake I could set up dedicated i/o: right and not use the cables?I have the samsung pathcbays with the normaling switches on the front, so easy to change. thx ! I don't know Logic, but yes I would assume so. You certainly can in PT, and have the ability to save / set up multiple i/o configurations for flexibility or different projects, etc.. This is my compact bay setup below..... Picture 1 - before I half-normalled everything - back when I was thinking traditionally......"Oh, this is outboard gear. I should set it up like tie lines.....non-normalled". 200+ patch cables at any one point in time, and so congested that nothing got re-patched unless it was extremely urgent. Picture 2 - after, when I realized how short sighted I was initially. This is a hybrid approach, and should be treated as such. Different than traditional, but in practice, extremely flexible and clean. Bay1 Row 1 - PT 1-48 Out Row 2 - Outboard 1-48 In Bay2 Row 3 - Outboard 1-48 Out Row 4 - PT 1-48 In Bay3 Row 5 - PT 49-96 Out Row 6 - Outboard 49-96 In Bay4 Row 7 - Outboard 49-96 Out Row 8 - PT 49-96 In Bay5 Misc Vision Mixers (2) Stuff, Keyboards, etc.. Bay 6 Ready for expansion BTW, anyone -- I've got a bunch of wire and patch bays I'm selling soon. Mostly TT/Elco Bays and Mogami Multipair. Great for setting up a hybrid system. If this can help anyone else, feel free to PM me. Attachments:
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Post by stormymondays on Jun 12, 2018 10:56:41 GMT -6
My setup is: patchbay normalled for tracking (mic pres into interface inputs) with zero cables, outboard gear available for patching. For mixing, I patch 8 cables and my Logic I/O plugin presets do the rest.
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2018 11:07:39 GMT -6
I'm sure Jeff's box is awesome. As a disclaimer, I have never used it - but I have used his vp28's on mix buss and also the missing links. Both did a good job. I've got a pretty good handle on the CAPI sound. But with the state of DAW's in 2018, do you really need an OTB summing box to do the summing and get the sound you want? In my travels, I've been able to achieve virtually the same sonics with 2 analog channel chains on the 2 buss as opposed to 16-24+ channels "summed" OTB and back in. Then adding individual inserts of analog gear takes it WAY over the top for me. Just my personal experience. Although I had an emotional connection with my console and worked that way for decades, I waited way to long to sell it. My mixes honestly sound better mixing hybrid on inserts - without the console. If I had another room, it would have the console in it for tracking and emotional vibe, but for mixing....it's a hybrid approach all the way for me. My $0.02 Totally understand. In a way. I still think doing OTB summing can do some great things ITB can't do. But you're right you can add some great voodoo just on the 2 bus and get very similar results. Jealous of your setup. I'd like to get to where your at someday, one piece of gear at a time.. Don't be jealous. Just be smart in your acquisitions. As for the gear I have, it's been a "gradual" process of buying and holding - not selling over the years. It takes time. I feel blessed and lucky. It's taken quite awhile..... As for the summing OTB vs. ITB thing : I did a LOT of OTB summing vs. 2 Buss processing comparisons over the years. Initial journeys were with nice, high end consoles that were "colored" (80 series and API's), then high end consoles that were "transparent" (mostly Soundcrafts & D&R's), then (when I still had a console) with a 2 Buss chain and ITB summing. For the 2 Buss chain approach, I started with Jeff's Missing Link's in front of vp26's ( I was told a few times that was the wrong way to do it, LOL), then I quickly moved to vp28's when Jeff added the line in, eventually added AML1073's into the fray, and ended up pretty frustrated and slowed down with a convoluted (and yes, with copious patch cables...LOL) setup. For me, the 2 Buss processing approach with API/1073 line amps sounded great and was better sonically than either the consoles or external summing boxes - when I got the gain staging right. (That was the tricky part with a bunch of mic pre's that were patched together - not really meant to be used how I was using them.) But it was a groove killer for me - ergonomically. When I did get it right, it was RIGHT! But convoluted enough that I never experimented with things, and lost the creative spark of it all. Sonically however, the 2 Buss approach - w/ vp28's / 1073's - got me further down the road than either a transparent console with outboard, or a "colored" console (Neve or API) could get me. (I attribute this to the ability to chain API into Neve and vice versa and drive each separately - something not really doable on a real console or summer) Ironically, this is right about when I met Brad McGowan, and found out that both our perspectives were very similar, and we were both looking for similar solutions to working in a digital world in a quick, ergonomically creative way. That is what started the Silver Bullet design arc. I have to work fast, and the ability to "drive" the "console" - or in my case the 2 Buss chain - into it's sweet spot is mandatory. I mostly do films, TV, production music and am often dealing with dozens and dozens of tracks in a mix. There is no time - it's always the "we needed it yesterday" syndrome. So moving away from LFAC's / Summers and convoluted mic preamp 2 Buss chains towards a Silver Bullet alongside an SSL or Varimu Comp on the 2 buss chain was IT for me. Super fast, easily recallable, reliable, and with no OTB summing (consoles or boxes) to slow me down - all the while being easily drivable to the sweet spot. Heaven for me, and IMO, sonically superior to everything I'd done in the past. That's kinda how I ended up where I ended up. And for me, the new studio today is working better than anything I've ever had in the past. And I've done the whole tape, LFAC traditional and new skool studio thing over the last 30 years. My $0.02, devalued to $0.0002365 for streaming services.... |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 11:31:18 GMT -6
Totally understand. In a way. I still think doing OTB summing can do some great things ITB can't do. But you're right you can add some great voodoo just on the 2 bus and get very similar results. Jealous of your setup. I'd like to get to where your at someday, one piece of gear at a time.. Don't be jealous. Just be smart in your acquisitions. As for the gear I have, it's been a "gradual" process of buying and holding - not selling over the years. It takes time. I feel blessed and lucky. It's taken quite awhile..... As for the summing OTB vs. ITB thing : I did a LOT of OTB summing vs. 2 Buss processing comparisons over the years. Initial journeys were with nice, high end consoles that were "colored" (80 series and API's), then high end consoles that were "transparent" (mostly Soundcrafts & D&R's), then (when I still had a console) with a 2 Buss chain and ITB summing. For the 2 Buss chain approach, I started with Jeff's Missing Link's in front of vp26's ( I was told a few times that was the wrong way to do it, LOL), then I quickly moved to vp28's when Jeff added the line in, eventually added AML1073's into the fray, and ended up pretty frustrated and slowed down with a convoluted (and yes, with copious patch cables...LOL) setup. For me, the 2 Buss processing approach with API/1073 line amps sounded great and was better sonically than either the consoles or external summing boxes - when I got the gain staging right. (That was the tricky part with a bunch of mic pre's that were patched together - not really meant to be used how I was using them.) But it was a groove killer for me - ergonomically. When I did get it right, it was RIGHT! But convoluted enough that I never experimented with things, and lost the creative spark of it all. Sonically however, the 2 Buss approach - w/ vp28's / 1073's - got me further down the road than either a transparent console with outboard, or a "colored" console (Neve or API) could get me. (I attribute this to the ability to chain API into Neve and vice versa and drive each separately - something not really doable on a real console or summer) Ironically, this is right about when I met Brad McGowan, and found out that both our perspectives were very similar, and we were both looking for similar solutions to working in a digital world in a quick, ergonomically creative way. That is what started the Silver Bullet design arc. I have to work fast, and the ability to "drive" the "console" - or in my case the 2 Buss chain - into it's sweet spot is mandatory. I mostly do films, TV, production music and am often dealing with dozens and dozens of tracks in a mix. There is no time - it's always the "we needed it yesterday" syndrome. So moving away from LFAC's / Summers and convoluted mic preamp 2 Buss chains towards a Silver Bullet alongside an SSL or Varimu Comp on the 2 buss chain was IT for me. Super fast, easily recallable, reliable, and with no OTB summing (consoles or boxes) to slow me down - all the while being easily drivable to the sweet spot. Heaven for me, and IMO, sonically superior to everything I'd done in the past. That's kinda how I ended up where I ended up. And for me, the new studio today is working better than anything I've ever had in the past. And I've done the whole tape, LFAC traditional and new skool studio thing over the last 30 years. My $0.02, devalued to $0.0002365 for streaming services.... The silver Bullet is on my list for that reason. And others. Very cool box. I really like Brad's work. Cool to hear your back story in more detail on how you ended up with that unit. I still really like what Jeff has done with the SumBus. No other summing box out there like it, really to me its a mini console with all the op amps and transformers things go through. Plus with the SB2 design, there isn't a lot to be messed with so recall is simple. The other part is he requres 6dB of make up gain on his. I think a silver bullet might work great on the back side of the SumBus for this. But no idea really. Still, I really want a hybrid setup just like what you're talking about or similar. Kind of a master desk with gear in front of me and a few avid artist controllers or an s3 for Daw stuff. Fast recall but plenty of analog flavor. Thats the dream! My list of things to acquire is quite long..I don't really want to do a lot of tracking mostly just mixing and mastering..but got a long ways to go to get the gear setup and long road to good clients to keep it going. Also HAHA! at your streaming comment  |
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2018 11:54:26 GMT -6
Cool. All good reasons. No one size fits all.
For summing box make up gain, the Silver Bullet has a "Folcrom" mode. Sounds like those two together might be an awesome combo for you.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 12:10:16 GMT -6
Cool. All good reasons. No one size fits all. For summing box make up gain, the Silver Bullet has a "Folcrom" mode. Sounds like those two together might be an awesome combo for you. You're talking about the Mic pre to a mix input yes? I figure I can use the SB as the makeup gain from the SB2 using the mic pre inputs. Then for mastering, just switch to Mix on the SB. No patching needed. I'll use the insert on the SB for other gear as needed or just inline for mastering. Super handy. As my Dad says..1000 ways to skin a cat. Will see how it evolves for me over time. For all i know i'll end up in the same place as you just using inserts in PTHD instead of breaking things out like how you have it setup. Which I know is a super awesome fast way to work. Kind of what I do here at work, we just don't have that much outboard gear. None actually other than my own stuff I've brought in. But Im a little young and dumb so we will see haha |
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2018 12:32:28 GMT -6
Ehhhhhh.....you don't seem too dumb to me. LOL Yes. Folcrom mode takes the "mic inputs" and routes them through all the circuitry to the Mix outputs - so you'd take the sum buss and route it to the mic inputs. (Normal routing has the mic inputs going to the tracking outputs.) Either works, but Folcrom mode sounds like what you'd want - i.e.: extra gain from the mic level inputs of the Silver Bullet into the MIX outputs. You can still have your line inputs patched into the Mix inputs for mastering or other duties. You can also use the tracking i/o for re-amping mix elements during your mix, etc.. Pretty flexible - 3 sets of inputs with no patching. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 12, 2018 12:48:50 GMT -6
Experience.
Years and years or hit and miss, mistakes, errors, happy accidents, hours spent with each piece, tips from others, ignoring tips, trying again and again, stealing from others, forgetting everything, zeroing every EQ and comp when you can't get what you want and starting over
You know ,
Experience
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But there are times I'm forced back into the Box to use a plugin.
