|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 10:00:08 GMT -6
Hey all.
So most my recording is done in a kind of concert hall. Due to the design of the place, I'm limited to using Remote controllable Mic pre amps.
On top of that, I record on two systems at the same time so having Analog and digital I/O with clocking is important.
I use 3 Grace m802s and I love them. They are great and the A/D conversion is awesome.
But I'm left wanting another option that is more colored. And am struggling to really find anything. Most are clean pre's and I'd like something with some attitude to tame some of the occasional harsh string players I encounter and use for spot mics as well.
Any suggestions??
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013 
|
Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2018 10:20:56 GMT -6
First though, good luck!
Second thought really it shouldn’t be hard to modify most DIY products if you find a controller and protocol.
Of course why not just run long lines? I have seen mic lines of a couple of thousand feet in remote sports broadcasts with no problems.
Last Idea mic them clean color with a line amp.
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jun 5, 2018 11:40:39 GMT -6
One thought would be to introduce input or output transformers for color in a patchable outboard box. Might not be the kind of color you want.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 12:06:57 GMT -6
First though, good luck! Second thought really it shouldn’t be hard to modify most DIY products if you find a controller and protocol. Of course why not just run long lines? I have seen mic lines of a couple of thousand feet in remote sports broadcasts with no problems. Last Idea mic them clean color with a line amp. Tell me about it.. Neve makes one and RND is coming out with one. The RND one doesn't have very good IO setup though and is mostly aimed for Dante setups. Doesn't even have analog outputs which is silly I think. The 4081 looks interesting. But am not sure it'll have as much voodoo as Id like for the cost. They make a rack to put in 1081R modules and a couple others too. RS422 protocol. But very pricey and software looks archaic. The Millennia is another option but still a pretty clean mic pre. When I was at the symphony we had a Grace and HV-3R. They do sound different, the HV-3R wasn't as crisp and fast. But I'd like something warm if possible....which seems impossible.. Cant make a super long run. Right now, the lines are hung and then run down to the basement to the mic pres. Then I take the AES output and run it up to the 2nd floor for Protools and I take the analog out to a Hapi for DXD which is then just audio over IP. They didn't really run any analog lines to the actual control room/machine room on the 2nd floor as its all digital from the basement. But the thought has crossed my mind..Biggest problem would be getting signal into both Pyramix and Protools. The Horus I have up here has little I/O left as we do 9.1 recording. One thought would be to introduce input or output transformers for color in a patchable outboard box. Might not be the kind of color you want. Not a bad idea. Not super ideal but an idea none the less! |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,013
|
Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2018 12:20:25 GMT -6
First though, good luck! Second thought really it shouldn’t be hard to modify most DIY products if you find a controller and protocol. Of course why not just run long lines? I have seen mic lines of a couple of thousand feet in remote sports broadcasts with no problems. Last Idea mic them clean color with a line amp. Tell me about it.. Neve makes one and RND is coming out with one. The RND one doesn't have very good IO setup though and is mostly aimed for Dante setups. Doesn't even have analog outputs which is silly I think. The 4081 looks interesting. But am not sure it'll have as much voodoo as Id like for the cost. They make a rack to put in 1081R modules and a couple others too. RS422 protocol. But very pricey and software looks archaic. The Millennia is another option but still a pretty clean mic pre. When I was at the symphony we had a Grace and HV-3R. They do sound different, the HV-3R wasn't as crisp and fast. But I'd like something warm if possible....which seems impossible.. Cant make a super long run. Right now, the lines are hung and then run down to the basement to the mic pres. Then I take the AES output and run it up to the 2nd floor for Protools and I take the analog out to a Hapi for DXD which is then just audio over IP. They didn't really run any analog lines to the actual control room/machine room on the 2nd floor as its all digital from the basement. But the thought has crossed my mind..Biggest problem would be getting signal into both Pyramix and Protools. The Horus I have up here has little I/O left as we do 9.1 recording. One thought would be to introduce input or output transformers for color in a patchable outboard box. Might not be the kind of color you want. Not a bad idea. Not super ideal but an idea none the less! Keep in mind AES cable will work for mic but will cut, your input count in half! I HATE HATE system designers consultants who think one dimensionally! You can’t run to many lines and always have provisions for going basic because the shit will hit the fan at some point ( learned this in high school when the dimming manufacturer went belly up 1/2 way through a retrofit and always had B phase problems and we had to light shows with no sim running cables from class rooms) ! I would have a conversation with one of the smaller builders about something custom! |
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Jun 5, 2018 13:20:06 GMT -6
What about substituting less clinical condensers for more warm sounding Ribbons, and adding another HAPI with an AKD8DP card? The only other thing I can think of would be the Apogee Symphony 8x8MP, which should be able to rock in stand alone mode, routing to the AES outs, just like your current setup. And connecting to Mac to control the preamps. These preamps are a fair measure "sweeter" than the grace. Still clean, but less clinical IME. Also, the RME OctoMic XTC might be a viable solution, as they are certainly "softer" on the attack, compared to the Grace.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 13:26:18 GMT -6
Tell me about it.. Neve makes one and RND is coming out with one. The RND one doesn't have very good IO setup though and is mostly aimed for Dante setups. Doesn't even have analog outputs which is silly I think. The 4081 looks interesting. But am not sure it'll have as much voodoo as Id like for the cost. They make a rack to put in 1081R modules and a couple others too. RS422 protocol. But very pricey and software looks archaic. The Millennia is another option but still a pretty clean mic pre. When I was at the symphony we had a Grace and HV-3R. They do sound different, the HV-3R wasn't as crisp and fast. But I'd like something warm if possible....which seems impossible.. Cant make a super long run. Right now, the lines are hung and then run down to the basement to the mic pres. Then I take the AES output and run it up to the 2nd floor for Protools and I take the analog out to a Hapi for DXD which is then just audio over IP. They didn't really run any analog lines to the actual control room/machine room on the 2nd floor as its all digital from the basement. But the thought has crossed my mind..Biggest problem would be getting signal into both Pyramix and Protools. The Horus I have up here has little I/O left as we do 9.1 recording. Not a bad idea. Not super ideal but an idea none the less! Keep in mind AES cable will work for mic but will cut, your input count in half! I HATE HATE system designers consultants who think one dimensionally! You can’t run to many lines and always have provisions for going basic because the shit will hit the fan at some point ( learned this in high school when the dimming manufacturer went belly up 1/2 way through a retrofit and always had B phase problems and we had to light shows with no sim running cables from class rooms) ! I would have a conversation with one of the smaller builders about something custom! All our AES is 1 wire. But we used DB25 to cat6 adapters to run the aes lines from the Graces to the Avid I/O. We have since run a coulple analog lines, but only 4. Might just have to do that. But still not super ideal. What about substituting less clinical condensers for more warm sounding Ribbons, and adding another HAPI with an AKD8DP card? The only other thing I can think of would be the Apogee Symphony 8x8MP, which should be able to rock in stand alone mode, routing to the AES outs, just like your current setup. And connecting to Mac to control the preamps. These preamps are a fair measure "sweeter" than the grace. Still clean, but less clinical IME. Also, the RME OctoMic XTC might be a viable solution, as they are certainly "softer" on the attack, compared to the Grace. Expanding the mic collection is happening with a lot of LDC and Ribbons. Adding another HAPI is possible I think but wouldn't have a great way to get the signal to the protools rig. Protool is running at 96k vs the 384k of the Pyramix. Part of the issue is that it was all originally designed to be a Protools rig and Pyramix was added last minute. |
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Jun 5, 2018 13:46:27 GMT -6
With the HAPI, I think you could route the AD input to both AES outputs and AES67. So the AES feed could hit your PT rig and AES67 to Pyramix. Pretty sure you can do this..But I would have to check.
|
|
|
|
Post by adamjbrass on Jun 5, 2018 13:50:07 GMT -6
But I guess since you are running different SR, that makes it harder, yea
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 13:57:05 GMT -6
Yeah thats the big issue with running all digital. I have to do a split analog to hit the Pyramix converters separately.
Im wondering if doing the RMP D8 into Dante and re doing my whole Dante network will work. I can use the CL5 we use for live sound to control the gain via my ipad remote app and then maybe just come out the rio to the Hapi. But...not super stoked on using the Rio I/O for output..
|
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Jun 5, 2018 16:06:26 GMT -6
Avedis ma5
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 16:15:23 GMT -6
Thats just a 500 series pre. I need a remote controlled pre amp. |
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Jun 5, 2018 18:11:57 GMT -6
Thats just a 500 series pre. I need a remote controlled pre amp. Ah, ok I missed that in your first post |
|
|
|
Post by timcampbell on Jun 5, 2018 18:35:30 GMT -6
The Grace has balanced lines in. Why not use a colored pre (Neve for example) into the line in on the Grace and control the output gain from the Grace?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 5, 2018 18:40:59 GMT -6
The Grace has balanced lines in. Why not use a colored pre (Neve for example) into the line in on the Grace and control the output gain from the Grace? Now we're talking! |
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 5, 2018 22:35:27 GMT -6
The Grace has balanced lines in. Why not use a colored pre (Neve for example) into the line in on the Grace and control the output gain from the Grace? That is true. But would still entail having the Neve pre in the basement which I wouldn't have control over if it was peaking. |
|
|
|
Post by timcampbell on Jun 6, 2018 0:13:40 GMT -6
Yes, that's true but perhaps during rehearsal you could find a conservative, safe operating range and use the Grace for any makeup gain.
|
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Jun 6, 2018 1:43:40 GMT -6
You don't need to worry about the ma5 peaking. It will go into full saturation and still sound sweet
That is unless you dont like saturation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 8:29:26 GMT -6
Yes, that's true but perhaps during rehearsal you could find a conservative, safe operating range and use the Grace for any makeup gain. Good point. Its definitely something I'll have to consider. I'd be lying if I said I'd never done that before in other situations. You don't need to worry about the ma5 peaking. It will go into full saturation and still sound sweet That is unless you dont like saturation. Not really opposed to it at all. Though most my work is Classical so too much could be not so good. |
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Jun 6, 2018 9:19:06 GMT -6
An uppity assistant could fit that bill.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blackdawg on Jun 6, 2018 9:29:52 GMT -6
An uppity assistant could fit that bill. haha so true! I have assistants during concert season but often during sessions I don't. But not impossible to deal with. |
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jun 7, 2018 3:38:31 GMT -6
I like the idea of a line amp. A 325 style could give you a wide range.
|
|
