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Post by jamiesego on Jun 2, 2018 13:14:02 GMT -6
Seems like there are a lot of newer monitors on the market in $2-5k range. I figured I would see what the group thought.
I'm looking for:
- Accurate, full range, and good translation
- Inspiring for bands tracking
- Something outside producers will be comfortable with as well
I've been considering Barefoot Footprints, Focal Twins, Neumann KH310, Dynaudio LYD 48, Shape Twins, etc.
I have a decent sized, professionally designed room with a big Genelec sub and a set of NS10M's as B speakers.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 2, 2018 13:34:22 GMT -6
I’ll add to the usual suspects ATC and Quested but if your looking for best bang for buck and don’t mind used and going off the well traveled road, Nelson Reed ( no relationship) 804 the audacity Tweet in the early ATC’s ATC mid dome 2 Volt 8in think Quested, PMC in a variable port enclosure, or B&W 808 think rock and roll B&W Matrix, first time I heard a pair an idiot didn’t understand efficiency and had a wide open 500 watt per ch Macintosh Amp couldn’t hear for a week second time a little 50 watt Audio Research and Damn have always wanted a pair! These were in both rooms at SMART until they closed.
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Post by bram on Jun 3, 2018 0:36:44 GMT -6
I’m really liking the Barefoot Footprints. I’ve been using them for about 2 months now. They handle multiple genres well, they are clear, detailed, and honest without being overly clinical to the point where listening to music isn’t fun. I enjoy pumping music through them when I’m not working, they also tend to get clients moving in the studio.
The dual subs move a lot of air, so you shouldn’t have any issues with low-end if you’re working without a sub. At the same time, if you’re in a small room... well like I said they move a lot of air. Bass is easy to hear even at lower volumes. So far my mixes have been translating more or less seamlessly. And as far as inspiring clients/other producers, the brand name alone seems to carry quite the reputation.
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Post by mikec on Jun 3, 2018 12:49:49 GMT -6
I’m really liking the Barefoot Footprints. I’ve been using them for about 2 months now. They handle multiple genres well, they are clear, detailed, and honest without being overly clinical to the point where listening to music isn’t fun. I enjoy pumping music through them when I’m not working, they also tend to get clients moving in the studio. The dual subs move a lot of air, so you shouldn’t have any issues with low-end if you’re working without a sub. At the same time, if you’re in a small room... well like I said they move a lot of air. Bass is easy to hear even at lower volumes. So far my mixes have been translating more or less seamlessly. And as far as inspiring clients/other producers, the brand name alone seems to carry quite the reputation. After using my Focal Twin6 be monitors over the past few years I've been really happy with them, but that does not stop me from being very intrigued with these Barefoot Footprints. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 3, 2018 14:41:00 GMT -6
I've always wanted a pair of ATC 25 (which I think are truly stunning monitors) but at £7500 a pair they remain a dream.
As a more affordable option I bought a pair of K&H 0300's (now Neumann 0310's) which have a similar
dome mid driver to the ATC's and also the 0300's being a sealed baffle design the bass is very tight and revealing
of low end issues.
I don't monitor loudly so the 0300'a are powerful enough for me.
One thing I like about 0300's is how incredibly relaxed they are to use for very long periods, my ears never get tired
with the 0300's as the distortion is very low - I've used Focal Twins, ATC's, Tannoys, JBL's and by far my favourite
monitor are ATC's.
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Post by jamiesego on Jun 3, 2018 21:10:51 GMT -6
I am curious about ATC's and the Neumann 310's. Most ATC's are a bit out of the price range. I've been leaning towards the Footprints but there is a studio in town that has 310's and they seem to love them. There's also a studio in town that just got some Quested monitors so it's also something I would be interested in trying. I've also been seeing a lot of used Focal Twins for good prices.
Thankfully I'm not worried about the room not being able to handle bass frequencies. This room was designed for soffit mounted dual 15's. Bram do you find yourself using the MEME feature?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 3, 2018 21:33:51 GMT -6
I am curious about ATC's and the Neumann 310's. Most ATC's are a bit out of the price range. I've been leaning towards the Footprints but there is a studio in town that has 310's and they seem to love them. There's also a studio in town that just got some Quested monitors so it's also something I would be interested in trying. I've also been seeing a lot of used Focal Twins for good prices. Thankfully I'm not worried about the room not being able to handle bass frequencies. This room was designed for soffit mounted dual 15's. Bram do you find yourself using the MEME feature? Which Questeds? The mids differ depending on model, the K&H / Neumann’s use the Dynaudio dome, but can sound better than Dyns in narrow rooms because of the wave guide. If you like low distortion nothing beats ATC, but you sacrifice lowend compared to similar speakers, that said Many fine the low distortion to sound like they are going just as low. Of out of the box pro monitors ATC’s with the SL lowend new ATC Tweet and S Mid ( not the 25 and 45) are the most consistent top to bottom. The Bad besides price, if you want to use a sub few will integrate well and none of them that do are cheap. Quested uses Volt LF drivers in all their larger systems, Volt is kind of a compromise of ATC and everybody else’s lowend, almost as low Distortion as ATC but similar sized drivers will go lower. Focal twins have that magnificent fast as almost anything Berrilyum tweeter, but those cones just can’t keep up and they just are not consistent top to bottom I think the new less expensive Shapes are a far more consistent speaker, and I feel a better package but then you hear that Be dome and you get drawn in. Not a huge fan of Aluminum drivers and the Barefoots are and sound like Aluminum. |
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Post by jamiesego on Jun 3, 2018 22:07:12 GMT -6
I am curious about ATC's and the Neumann 310's. Most ATC's are a bit out of the price range. I've been leaning towards the Footprints but there is a studio in town that has 310's and they seem to love them. There's also a studio in town that just got some Quested monitors so it's also something I would be interested in trying. I've also been seeing a lot of used Focal Twins for good prices. Thankfully I'm not worried about the room not being able to handle bass frequencies. This room was designed for soffit mounted dual 15's. Bram do you find yourself using the MEME feature? Which Questeds? The mids differ depending on model, the K&H / Neumann’s use the Dynaudio dome, but can sound better than Dyns in narrow rooms because of the wave guide. If you like low distortion nothing beats ATC, but you sacrifice lowend compared to similar speakers, that said Many fine the low distortion to sound like they are going just as low. Of out of the box pro monitors ATC’s with the SL lowend new ATC Tweet and S Mid ( not the 25 and 45) are the most consistent top to bottom. The Bad besides price, if you want to use a sub few will integrate well and none of them that do are cheap. Quested uses Volt LF drivers in all their larger systems, Volt is kind of a compromise of ATC and everybody else’s lowend, almost as low Distortion as ATC but similar sized drivers will go lower. Focal twins have that magnificent fast as almost anything Berrilyum tweeter, but those cones just can’t keep up and they just are not consistent top to bottom I think the new less expensive Shapes are a far more consistent speaker, and I feel a better package but then you hear that Be dome and you get drawn in. Not a huge fan of Aluminum drivers and the Barefoots are and sound like Aluminum. I'm not sure which model it is. I haven't been over to listen to them yet. I'm not sure if I can afford any ATC models but I would love to try them out. Strangely, there are two rooms in town that have large ATC's and the people I know who have used them aren't big fans. I would definitely like to try them though. I briefly listened to Footprints and Twins side by side in Vintage King a few weeks ago. It wasn't much of a scientific test though as the Footprints were a lot louder. I thought they both sounded pretty good. |
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Post by javamad on Jun 4, 2018 2:20:48 GMT -6
I’m surprised you mention the Focal Twin but not the Trio?
I think they come in around the top of your budget and 3-way is going to give you better range and give more wow factor for tracking
Also the Trio has that footswitch tgat drops the big driver so you really have two sets of monitors in one.
They are on my list to buy as soon as I get some other more priority purchases done.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 2:34:39 GMT -6
Try the new ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros, they maybe come in under $5k? I have the older model (the Darth Vader shaped ones with metal enclosures) and love them. The 20s have the full SL spec drivers, a big part of the ATC sound, whereas AFAIK the 25 and 45 do not. I'm hoping to move up to the 50s one day.
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Post by jamiesego on Jun 4, 2018 8:10:03 GMT -6
I’m surprised you mention the Focal Twin but not the Trio? I think they come in around the top of your budget and 3-way is going to give you better range and give more wow factor for tracking Also the Trio has that footswitch tgat drops the big driver so you really have two sets of monitors in one. They are on my list to buy as soon as I get some other more priority purchases done. I am interested in those but they are a little over the budget. I guess if I thought they were enough of a step up I could stretch it. I’m also going to have to invest in some other things like stands and a monitor controller (currently using console). It’s going to be a pretty expensive upgrade (for me anyway) when it’s all added up. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 4, 2018 8:53:36 GMT -6
You can get a pair of Focal SM9s for 5k used these days. That's what I really want. Super clear sounding monitors.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 4, 2018 10:14:12 GMT -6
Seems like there are a lot of newer monitors on the market in $2-5k range. I throw again in my German monitors the Geithains 906 or 904. I couldn't be happier with investing into the 906.
It's absolutely phase accurate and the transients translate wonderful.
I even know without a subwoofer when it's too much going on in the super low end - the mix starts to sound bad. I can work much longer periods.
You don't have the wave guide thing going on like the Genelecs or KHs which hypes the high frequency and takes care for HF coloration.
Only problem is to get them in the US. But you can try to write to the factory if you're interested in it I guess you'll get a test period of two months and I think you have to deposit the cash.
If you don't like them you'll send them back but that's a little bit expensive overseas. I guess it's about 40 bucks in euro per speaker of the 906.
They are hard to fund used becasue people love them.....
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Post by adamjbrass on Jun 4, 2018 12:37:39 GMT -6
I vote for KH310's
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Post by joseph on Jun 5, 2018 10:24:49 GMT -6
I got a pair of Questeds fairly cheap. They pop up used quite a bit, see below for example. The evolution of the model was Q108 (which I have with upgraded Morel tweeters) to VS2108 (not much difference) to V2108 (more of an upgrade in bass department). They are more toward midfield than nearfield in my opinion. reverb.com/item/10131167-quested-vs2108-studio-monitors-pairI also have a pair of KH120a and they translate very well, as long as you keep volumes reasonable. The midrange is not as natural as the Questeds -- which are really unbelievably good on vocals, strings and sense of depth -- and I suspect the KH310 is similar, yet I would also suspect they have better bass translation than the ported 3 ways. |
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Post by jamiesego on Jun 5, 2018 15:03:01 GMT -6
I got a pair of Questeds fairly cheap. They pop up used quite a bit, see below for example. The evolution of the model was Q108 (which I have with upgraded Morel tweeters) to VS2108 (not much difference) to V2108 (more of an upgrade in bass department). They are more toward midfield than nearfield in my opinion. reverb.com/item/10131167-quested-vs2108-studio-monitors-pairI also have a pair of KH120a and they translate very well, as long as you keep volumes reasonable. The midrange is not as natural as the Questeds -- which are really unbelievably good on vocals, strings and sense of depth -- and I suspect the KH310 is similar, yet I would also suspect they have better bass translation than the ported 3 ways. Man that's really tempting. The options are paralyzing right now! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 5, 2018 15:20:13 GMT -6
I got a pair of Questeds fairly cheap. They pop up used quite a bit, see below for example. The evolution of the model was Q108 (which I have with upgraded Morel tweeters) to VS2108 (not much difference) to V2108 (more of an upgrade in bass department). They are more toward midfield than nearfield in my opinion. reverb.com/item/10131167-quested-vs2108-studio-monitors-pairI also have a pair of KH120a and they translate very well, as long as you keep volumes reasonable. The midrange is not as natural as the Questeds -- which are really unbelievably good on vocals, strings and sense of depth -- and I suspect the KH310 is similar, yet I would also suspect they have better bass translation than the ported 3 ways. Man that's really tempting. The options are paralyzing right now! That’s a nice price, 2108, the Hans Zimmer speaker, he liked the H108 but it didn’t go deep enough so Roger built a larger cabinet tuned lower. Simple design really Volt 8 and Morell 1in dome, dome is uses stock user replaceable $50 dia. Though not enexpensize drive the Morell has a lot of fans not bright or edgy. 2108’s can be used near or mid field so pretty versatile. Some love the mids some find it a little heavy in the lows, but I think those are petwho are putting to close to the back wall. |
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Post by joseph on Jun 6, 2018 8:32:47 GMT -6
Man that's really tempting. The options are paralyzing right now! That’s a nice price, 2108, the Hans Zimmer speaker, he liked the H108 but it didn’t go deep enough so Roger built a larger cabinet tuned lower. Simple design really Volt 8 and Morell 1in dome, dome is uses stock user replaceable $50 dia. Though not enexpensize drive the Morell has a lot of fans not bright or edgy. 2108’s can be used near or mid field so pretty versatile. Some love the mids some find it a little heavy in the lows, but I think those are petwho are putting to close to the back wall. Here are some links that might be useful Interview with Roger Quested, where he talks about evolution of 2 ways. www.audiotechnology.com.au/PDF/REGULARS/NAME_BEHIND_THE_NAME/AT56_NBN_Rogar_Quested.pdfVS2108 manual www.masteringmansion.com/common/docs_d/doc_767.pdfAlso I find the bass in particular is better from midfield position because it has a chance to propagate and the overall integration is better, and like Eric says, the room and positioning made a huge difference in my experience in terms of low mids and bass phase. |
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Post by professorplum on Jun 6, 2018 11:05:23 GMT -6
Really curious about the PMC Result6 for 3K. Wondering if anybody has anything to say about those? There's nowhere around me to demo them. Are you only looking for 3 way speakers Jamie?
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Post by jamiesego on Jun 6, 2018 13:35:30 GMT -6
Really curious about the PMC Result6 for 3K. Wondering if anybody has anything to say about those? There's nowhere around me to demo them. Are you only looking for 3 way speakers Jamie? I’ve been leaning towards three way speakers but I’m not marrried to that idea. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 6, 2018 14:40:30 GMT -6
Try the new ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros, they maybe come in under $5k? I have the older model (the Darth Vader shaped ones with metal enclosures) and love them. The 20s have the full SL spec drivers, a big part of the ATC sound, whereas AFAIK the 25 and 45 do not. I'm hoping to move up to the 50s one day. Ooh - those ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros are very nice. I'm not sure what you mean about full SL spec drivers- please explain I'm eager to learn as I'm a big ATC fan :-) They are almost affordable - if I sold my 0300's and did some saving up. I use my 0300's for tracking, mixing and home mastering, would these ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros cover those same bases? I'm used to a three way monitor which is why I'd always thought the 25's would be my dream monitor but as my project room is only 11ft by 14ft then maybe the ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros would be detailed and have enough bass and I would miss my three way 0300's. I would love to get some ATC's. |
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Post by ericn on Jun 6, 2018 16:03:09 GMT -6
Try the new ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros, they maybe come in under $5k? I have the older model (the Darth Vader shaped ones with metal enclosures) and love them. The 20s have the full SL spec drivers, a big part of the ATC sound, whereas AFAIK the 25 and 45 do not. I'm hoping to move up to the 50s one day. Ooh - those ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros are very nice. I'm not sure what you mean about full SL spec drivers- please explain I'm eager to learn as I'm a big ATC fan :-) They are almost affordable - if I sold my 0300's and did some saving up. I use my 0300's for tracking, mixing and home mastering, would these ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros cover those same bases? I'm used to a three way monitor which is why I'd always thought the 25's would be my dream monitor but as my project room is only 11ft by 14ft then maybe the ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros would be detailed and have enough bass and I would miss my three way 0300's. I would love to get some ATC's. The LF Drivers in the 20, 40, 50 and larger are ATC’s Super Linear spec, tighter tolerances and I believe bigger magnets the creame de la creame of low distortion, the 25 and 45 use the regular ATC mid vs the S spec in the other 3 ways bigger magnet and tighter tolerances probably the very best dynamic mid out there. Even when you could buy ATC drivers, without being a friend of the family S and SL were not available to the general public. |
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Post by nudwig on Jun 6, 2018 17:58:10 GMT -6
Try the new ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros, they maybe come in under $5k? I have the older model (the Darth Vader shaped ones with metal enclosures) and love them. The 20s have the full SL spec drivers, a big part of the ATC sound, whereas AFAIK the 25 and 45 do not. I'm hoping to move up to the 50s one day. Ooh - those ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros are very nice. I'm not sure what you mean about full SL spec drivers- please explain I'm eager to learn as I'm a big ATC fan :-) They are almost affordable - if I sold my 0300's and did some saving up. I use my 0300's for tracking, mixing and home mastering, would these ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros cover those same bases? I'm used to a three way monitor which is why I'd always thought the 25's would be my dream monitor but as my project room is only 11ft by 14ft then maybe the ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros would be detailed and have enough bass and I would miss my three way 0300's. I would love to get some ATC's. I love my ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros, the room I have them is just a touch smaller than yours and I preferred them to One18's in there (nothing against the Amphions, just my preference). I did add the Subwoofer Pros 12" after a year as I wanted to get more lowend. Very happy with this setup. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 3:30:26 GMT -6
Try the new ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros, they maybe come in under $5k? I have the older model (the Darth Vader shaped ones with metal enclosures) and love them. The 20s have the full SL spec drivers, a big part of the ATC sound, whereas AFAIK the 25 and 45 do not. I'm hoping to move up to the 50s one day. Ooh - those ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros are very nice. I'm not sure what you mean about full SL spec drivers- please explain I'm eager to learn as I'm a big ATC fan :-) They are almost affordable - if I sold my 0300's and did some saving up. I use my 0300's for tracking, mixing and home mastering, would these ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros cover those same bases? I'm used to a three way monitor which is why I'd always thought the 25's would be my dream monitor but as my project room is only 11ft by 14ft then maybe the ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros would be detailed and have enough bass and I would miss my three way 0300's. I would love to get some ATC's. There used to be white papers on the old ATC site but they seem to have gone now. I dug these up. The SL drivers have less distortion I think. There's no way I'd go for the 25 or 45. I heard the 25 and wasn't a fan at all, although it could have been the room they were in. Only thing I will upgrade to will be 50s or higher. www.transaudiogroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ATCWhitepaper.pdfwww.transaudiogroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ATC_Engineering_Goals_and_Approaches.pdfI love my SCM 20 ASL Pros, I have the older ones with the metal enclosures, the new ones have wooden enclosures in a completely different shape, and different tweeters, and possibly different/tweaked amps, and I haven't heard them yet so no idea if they are an upgrade or a downgrade. I have only heard great things about the new tweeters though, and I think they are possibly cheaper than the old versions were, when new. I've been using them for everything (tracking, mixing, home listening, but mostly mastering) for seven years now and am still stunned by how great they sound. Never heard such clarity or detail in any other brand of monitors, not that I have heard many, mind. Some people don't like the bass rolloff, it's quite high (in frequency) but very smooth (due to the ported design), but you won't hear much below about 35Hz. I've learned to work with it. Every time I think of adding a pair of subs, I look at the prices and think, nah, I'd be better off just saving up for the 50's. The only way to say if they are for you is to try a pair out in your studio, if you can. I know places like FunkyJunk here in Europe have been great in letting me test stuff out for a week or two. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 7, 2018 6:46:04 GMT -6
Ooh - those ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros are very nice. I'm not sure what you mean about full SL spec drivers- please explain I'm eager to learn as I'm a big ATC fan :-) They are almost affordable - if I sold my 0300's and did some saving up. I use my 0300's for tracking, mixing and home mastering, would these ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros cover those same bases? I'm used to a three way monitor which is why I'd always thought the 25's would be my dream monitor but as my project room is only 11ft by 14ft then maybe the ATC SCM 20 ASL Pros would be detailed and have enough bass and I would miss my three way 0300's. I would love to get some ATC's. There used to be white papers on the old ATC site but they seem to have gone now. I dug these up. The SL drivers have less distortion I think. There's no way I'd go for the 25 or 45. I heard the 25 and wasn't a fan at all, although it could have been the room they were in. Only thing I will upgrade to will be 50s or higher. www.transaudiogroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ATCWhitepaper.pdfwww.transaudiogroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ATC_Engineering_Goals_and_Approaches.pdfI love my SCM 20 ASL Pros, I have the older ones with the metal enclosures, the new ones have wooden enclosures in a completely different shape, and different tweeters, and possibly different/tweaked amps, and I haven't heard them yet so no idea if they are an upgrade or a downgrade. I have only heard great things about the new tweeters though, and I think they are possibly cheaper than the old versions were, when new. I've been using them for everything (tracking, mixing, home listening, but mostly mastering) for seven years now and am still stunned by how great they sound. Never heard such clarity or detail in any other brand of monitors, not that I have heard many, mind. Some people don't like the bass rolloff, it's quite high (in frequency) but very smooth (due to the ported design), but you won't hear much below about 35Hz. I've learned to work with it. Every time I think of adding a pair of subs, I look at the prices and think, nah, I'd be better off just saving up for the 50's. The only way to say if they are for you is to try a pair out in your studio, if you can. I know places like FunkyJunk here in Europe have been great in letting me test stuff out for a week or two. The old 20’s are a great speaker is something very, very special go demo a pair my friend! They grafted the silk dome from the mid on the woofer as a dust over and the new tweeter is worthy of the ATC name, much more coherent top to bottom. Probably my favorite 2 way dynamic speaker. The 20 in any form is one of the few compact 2 ways I would call a mastering grade speaker. To many ATC drivers were confusing for the woofers you had “S” short coil, “L” long coil & “SL” super linear versions of some models. If you ever heard an SL next to a non SL you instantly got it ! The 25 and 45 are very good speakers, just not great speakers, they really suffer from trying to build a compact near field 3 way. They sound great next to most of the competition, but next to the best of the best you understand. That said I don’t know of any near field 3 way at their level either. |
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