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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2018 8:13:30 GMT -6
I know we’ve been over clean pres before, but it escapes me. What’s the pre with the highest cleanest headroom that you have (or want). Cheap is good too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2018 8:14:26 GMT -6
Maybe I’m describing the GR. Lol
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Post by svart on Apr 26, 2018 8:16:44 GMT -6
For me it's the SSL9000 clone.
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 26, 2018 8:37:29 GMT -6
My Greg Hanks BA-660 has the most headroom of any microphone preamp on earth. It doesn't distort until +56db. Which is beyond any commercial application. It can handle a +14 mic level. I put loud singers through hot condensers into that box and turn my back with a smile. The Second best in my rack, are my Fearns which have +30 over 0VU. The Great River is +24 over 0VU.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2018 8:48:03 GMT -6
My Greg Hanks BA-660 has the most headroom of any microphone preamp on earth. It doesn't distort until +56db. Which is beyond any commercial application. It can handle a +14 mic level. I put loud singers through hot condensers into that box and turn my back with a smile. The Second best in my rack, are my Fearns which have +30 over 0VU. The Great River is +24 over 0VU. Adam did you ever use The Dick Sequrra Pre that Brad Lundy carried a while ago ? The Prototype Dick loaned a friend had headroom for miles! |
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 26, 2018 8:49:03 GMT -6
My Greg Hanks BA-660 has the most headroom of any microphone preamp on earth. It doesn't distort until +56db. Which is beyond any commercial application. It can handle a +14 mic level. I put loud singers through hot condensers into that box and turn my back with a smile. The Second best in my rack, are my Fearns which have +30 over 0VU. The Great River is +24 over 0VU. Adam did you ever use The Dick Sequrra Pre that Brad Lundy carried a while ago ? The Prototype Dick loaned a friend had headroom for miles! Never heard of it. But I do know that Brad never shows me anything. |
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 26, 2018 8:50:52 GMT -6
Looks like a $30,000 phono preamp. He was showing this off, for use with Microphones?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 26, 2018 8:55:36 GMT -6
Adam did you ever use The Dick Sequrra Pre that Brad Lundy carried a while ago ? The Prototype Dick loaned a friend had headroom for miles! Never heard of it. But I do know that Brad never shows me anything. Yeah I only got to hear the prototype because a Friend was a dealer for Dick’s highend consumer stuff and he told Dick I was using his little Metronome 7’s as remote and near field’s at the time! Wish I had the cash at the time, but even Gear pimps need to eat and the Audi I had at the time wouldn’t have had enough room to sleep in filled with gear! So many obscure pre’s so little time! |
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Post by jtc111 on Apr 26, 2018 9:04:21 GMT -6
The Hardy M1 will give you 60db of gain and is very clean. I think the two channel unit sells for around $1650-1700.
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Post by EmRR on Apr 26, 2018 9:49:22 GMT -6
My Greg Hanks BA-660 has the most headroom of any microphone preamp on earth. It doesn't distort until +56db. Which is beyond any commercial application. It can handle a +14 mic level. That's a power amp. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Apr 26, 2018 9:50:02 GMT -6
You don't need "headroom", you need dynamic range and a lot of it. -129.6 db EIN at 150 ohms is about the limit. At 50 ohms you can better that to -132 db EIN. That's a 72 db S/N ratio IF the mics are as quiet. Transformer coupled mic pre designs are limited to -128 db EIN at 150 ohms.
Headroom is not an issue with modern ADC's or analog tape. Modern ADC's clip at around +20 dbu, far below the average balanced output levels of +27 dbu with standard + - 15 volt power supplies. Analog tape saturates at +13 dbu.
Proper gain staging will avoid any issues with modern recording gear. No one needs +30 db audio levels unless you are driving a speaker. Gear with those elevated output levels can easily damage other gear that runs on standard voltage rails. There is no practical benefit to that sort of design unless it's a weiner measuring contest.
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 26, 2018 9:55:35 GMT -6
My Greg Hanks BA-660 has the most headroom of any microphone preamp on earth. It doesn't distort until +56db. Which is beyond any commercial application. It can handle a +14 mic level. That's a power amp. It can swing 100volts peak to peak. But yea, its a highly overbuilt vacuum tube Mic preamp, MU shunt Compressor/Limiter, and ADC converter |
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 26, 2018 9:59:02 GMT -6
Grace Mic pres all day.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 26, 2018 10:29:40 GMT -6
I believe the Pacifica should have good headroom with those +\- 28v rails.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2018 16:17:31 GMT -6
You don't need "headroom", you need dynamic range and a lot of it. -129.6 db EIN at 150 ohms is about the limit. At 50 ohms you can better that to -132 db EIN. That's a 72 db S/N ratio IF the mics are as quiet. Transformer coupled mic pre designs are limited to -128 db EIN at 150 ohms. Headroom is not an issue with modern ADC's or analog tape. Modern ADC's clip at around +20 dbu, far below the average balanced output levels of +27 dbu with standard + - 15 volt power supplies. Analog tape saturates at +13 dbu. Proper gain staging will avoid any issues with modern recording gear. No one needs +30 db audio levels unless you are driving a speaker. Gear with those elevated output levels can easily damage other gear that runs on standard voltage rails. There is no practical benefit to that sort of design unless it's a weiner measuring contest. Well whatever it’s called. Something that doesn’t saturate when pushed. |
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Post by EmRR on Apr 26, 2018 17:31:52 GMT -6
I think this conversation is really about max input w/o a pad. I’ve got some RCA bridging amps with input transformers that can take +40dBm directly but the amp itself does +27dBm max. The gain control pot is between the input trans and the amp.
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Post by yotonic on Apr 26, 2018 17:37:28 GMT -6
I love this preamp on vocals and acoustics. It's clean but vibey and forward. One of my favorites and a steal on the used market, Avalon. Sony c800 into Avalon M5 into Summit TLA100
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2018 18:50:13 GMT -6
I love this preamp on vocals and acoustics. It's clean but vibey and forward. One of my favorites and a steal on the used market, Avalon. The Colby Calait? |
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 27, 2018 0:05:22 GMT -6
I think AEA makes a pre that can get hot as hell and stays clean.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 27, 2018 6:35:01 GMT -6
I think AEA makes a pre that can get hot as hell and stays clean. Yeah Roundbadge reminded me of that. I thdon’t no I remember being pleasantly surprised using cowboycoalminer s |
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Post by svart on Apr 27, 2018 7:34:57 GMT -6
You don't need "headroom", you need dynamic range and a lot of it. -129.6 db EIN at 150 ohms is about the limit. At 50 ohms you can better that to -132 db EIN. That's a 72 db S/N ratio IF the mics are as quiet. Transformer coupled mic pre designs are limited to -128 db EIN at 150 ohms. Headroom is not an issue with modern ADC's or analog tape. Modern ADC's clip at around +20 dbu, far below the average balanced output levels of +27 dbu with standard + - 15 volt power supplies. Analog tape saturates at +13 dbu. Proper gain staging will avoid any issues with modern recording gear. No one needs +30 db audio levels unless you are driving a speaker. Gear with those elevated output levels can easily damage other gear that runs on standard voltage rails. There is no practical benefit to that sort of design unless it's a weiner measuring contest. Well whatever it’s called. Something that doesn’t saturate when pushed. Actually John, you are right. Headroom IS the right term for what you want. You want to be able to have "proper signal handling above a designated level" which is the definition of headroom. Whether or not you can achieve this is then defined as/by dynamic range. You can pad down your inputs and move the hot input signal into a more "happy" range that would satisfy the headroom requirements while also fitting within the dynamic range, but amplification after attenuation creates Noise Figure, which subtracts that loss from the total dynamic range. You'll still have plenty of headroom though, because NF only ruins the noise floor, not the headroom. |
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Post by drsax on Apr 27, 2018 9:22:19 GMT -6
Johnkenn - if the AEA is not your cup of tea, you might want to try and demo a GR at someone’s studio, it might be just what you’re looking for. Lots of headroom without sounding too saturated. And with the adjustments it has you can get customize it even more for what you want.
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2018 11:06:24 GMT -6
Um, Johnkenn, don't forget about the Grace M101/201/801 - it's about as clean as it gets with gain and headroom. Ribbon mode is something else. If you can stand a TINY bit of dirt, the Focusrite Red series (original 1/6/7/8) is pure luxury and the ƒ428 Mark 1 has a lot of headroom too... |
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 27, 2018 12:14:18 GMT -6
I really wanna try an NPNG.
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 27, 2018 12:19:00 GMT -6
Um, Johnkenn , don't forget about the Grace M101/201/801 - it's about as clean as it gets with gain and headroom. Ribbon mode is something else. If you can stand a TINY bit of dirt, the Focusrite Red series (original 1/6/7/8) is pure luxury and the ƒ428 Mark 1 has a lot of headroom too... That's the one I was thinking of..... The Grace pre's that are for Ribbons have piles of gain and are extremely clean. Randy has one and it's really insane how much juice those pre's have while being very quiet. They impart nothing on the sound, it's what I'd call a straight wire pre, but it has a pile of gain. |
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