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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 26, 2018 6:56:53 GMT -6
What? ? ? ย ย You want me to make my secret weapons public?? A guy's gotta have SOME secrets.... ย Let me help... MIDI. ๐๐
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Post by drbill on Apr 26, 2018 9:59:57 GMT -6
What? ? ? You want me to make my secret weapons public?? A guy's gotta have SOME secrets.... Let me help... MIDI. ๐๐ Nice try bro. I suppose if money and stray drumsticks were no problem, I'd go with U87's. But such is not the case. My personal favorites are the Joly modded Oktava219's. They have a really cool "woody" sound that I prefer - with great attack, sustain and bloom. I only have 2 of them right now though. When a more modern sound is called for, or if there's a bunch of toms, I'll switch over to CAD M179's. Cheap. Sound great. And significantly better off-axis bleed than 421's. I like the "sound" of a 421 on toms in isolation, but it's off axis bleed coloration when combined with the rest of the kit kills it for me. jcoutu1 - for your midi drums, try upgrading from your casio toms. Try some S1000/1100 - or if you can find it an SP1200.
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Post by saltyjames on Oct 28, 2019 23:14:28 GMT -6
If you stare at one hard enough it will pop off its clip and fall on the floor.
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Post by svart on Oct 29, 2019 8:05:03 GMT -6
If you stare at one hard enough it will pop off its clip and fall on the floor. True story bro. I riveted a mount to the bottom of mine after it came off and smashed the screen.
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Post by svart on Oct 29, 2019 8:09:11 GMT -6
Why would we give em away when there's so many suckers (oops, er, believers) out there who will pay good money for them? And there ARE believers who have no ears lining up to sing the 421's praises on toms. I have one client who asked for 421's on toms THREE times. I told him no all 3 times, and he still pleaded. So I put up 421's and my fav tom mics. All three times, he chose my favorites, but every time he came back he AGAIN asked for the 421's. I fully expect on visit #4 he will ask for them again. Haha! I hate having to put up 2 pairs of mics on toms just to prove an already proven point. I ended up selling two so I wouldn't have to use them on toms again. Kept 1 or 2 just for alternates on Cab's. An old post, but one worth mentioning because I recently did the same thing. I put up 421's on toms because someone used them at another studio once upon a time. I tried using them on toms a long time ago and never really got along with them and ended up collecting enough old-style ATM25's to use on toms anyway. Well, short story is that we ended up using the ATM25's after the guy heard them vs. the 421's.
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Post by nomatic on Oct 29, 2019 8:32:57 GMT -6
They are excellent for home defense.....
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Post by woofhead on Oct 29, 2019 9:56:46 GMT -6
They are excellent for home defense..... Go ahead punk make my day
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Post by jamiesego on Oct 29, 2019 10:38:55 GMT -6
Iโm also in the ATM230 or ATM25 camp for toms lately but I think the 421 is good on guitar amps and bass amps. Franz Ferdinandโs โTake Me Outโ is nothing but 421โs on drums I believe.
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Post by drbill on Oct 29, 2019 12:00:38 GMT -6
Why would we give em away when there's so many suckers (oops, er, believers) out there who will pay good money for them? And there ARE believers who have no ears lining up to sing the 421's praises on toms. I have one client who asked for 421's on toms THREE times. I told him no all 3 times, and he still pleaded. So I put up 421's and my fav tom mics. All three times, he chose my favorites, but every time he came back he AGAIN asked for the 421's. I fully expect on visit #4 he will ask for them again. Haha! I hate having to put up 2 pairs of mics on toms just to prove an already proven point. I ended up selling two so I wouldn't have to use them on toms again. Kept 1 or 2 just for alternates on Cab's. An old post, but one worth mentioning because I recently did the same thing. I put up 421's on toms because someone used them at another studio once upon a time. I tried using them on toms a long time ago and never really got along with them and ended up collecting enough old-style ATM25's to use on toms anyway. Well, short story is that we ended up using the ATM25's after the guy heard them vs. the 421's. Ha!! I've had to fight that battle many times. Client : I want to use 421's on toms. Me : Why? Client : Because CLA said they are the best, and because I've seen them in a lot of online pics. Me : OK, but why don't we shoot them out with these (219PE's.) Client : Well........OK (So I put both up & we carefully blind A/B'd between the two - solo'd and in the kit overall) Me : Whaddaya think? Client : I knew the 421's would be the best call. Me : Uh, those are the 219's that you chose. Client : Oh....well, I think we should use the 421's? Me : Why? They obviously are phase gunking up the drum sound. Client : Cause everyone uses them And on and on and on. I finally convinced him, but it was HARD. In the end he absolutely LOVED the drum sound we got, and bragged about it to all his drummer friends. And he's a BIG tom guy - lots of tom rides, fills, etc.. Fast forward 6 months to the next time that he was back in.... Client : I think we should use 421's on toms. Me : Do you remember our last session? Client : Yeah. Me : did you like the drum sounds? Client : Yeah, they were fantastic. Me : Do you remember listening to the 421's vs. 219's? Client : Uh......Yeah. Me : Then why would you want to use 421's. Client : Cause CLA and everyone on the internet uses em. Me : Sigh.... The 421 battle continues..... I'm inclined to just put em up and not use em, and the clients will love the sound of the 219's and brag about how great 421's sound.... LOL Then, all the other engineers downstream will be calling me asking how I got the 421's to sound like that. LOL LOL
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Post by swafford on Oct 29, 2019 12:01:28 GMT -6
Had a pair once. My friend John really likes them. The best thing I can say about them is I sold them to him for what I paid for them.
If life were always so easy.
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Post by svart on Oct 29, 2019 12:06:37 GMT -6
An old post, but one worth mentioning because I recently did the same thing. I put up 421's on toms because someone used them at another studio once upon a time. I tried using them on toms a long time ago and never really got along with them and ended up collecting enough old-style ATM25's to use on toms anyway. Well, short story is that we ended up using the ATM25's after the guy heard them vs. the 421's. Ha!! I've had to fight that battle many times. Client : I want to use 421's on toms. Me : Why? Client : Because CLA said they are the best, and because I've seen them in a lot of online pics. Me : OK, but why don't we shoot them out with these (219PE's.) Client : Well........OK (So I put both up & we carefully blind A/B'd between the two - solo'd and in the kit overall) Me : Whaddaya think? Client : I knew the 421's would be the best call. Me : Uh, those are the 219's that you chose. Client : Oh....well, I think we should use the 421's? Me : Why? They obviously are phase gunking up the drum sound. Client : Cause everyone uses them And on and on and on. Finally convinced him, and he absolutely LOVED the drum sound we got, and bragged about it to all his drummer friends. Fast forward 6 month to the next time EXACT same client is in.... Client : I think we should use 421's on toms. Me : Do you remember our last session. Client : Yeah. Me : did you like the drum sounds. Client : Yeah, they were fantastic. Me : Do you remember listening to the 421's vs. 219's Client : Yeah. Me : Then why would you want to use 421's. Client : Cause CLA and everyone on the internet uses em. Me : Sigh.... I'm inclined to just put em up and not use em, and the clients will love em and brag about how great 421's sound.... LOL I mean, I could use them in a pinch, but the bleed on the 421 is really strange sounding and the ATM25's had a lot more rejection and better bottom end..
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Post by drbill on Oct 29, 2019 12:09:43 GMT -6
Oh, they are useable. But it takes so much more work to get the kit right. The more toms and 421's you've got up, the more exponentially hard it becomes to keep the kit from becoming a phasey mess. I'll always end up chopping out the bleed from when they are not being used, but with other mics, I LIKE the tom bleed. 421 tom bleed is unusable for me.
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Post by soundintheround on Oct 29, 2019 12:48:49 GMT -6
Funny, I actually dont like em all that much for Toms either. I prefer a condenser instead (even the shure clip on ones work). But I do like them for most other things!
Gotta get the black ones with the silver around the end. The newer all black ones are pretty bright and not as useable.
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Post by schmalzy on Oct 29, 2019 14:52:24 GMT -6
I've used 421s on toms twice.
Once, a guy put 'em up on a drum kit live when I was playing bass. My drummer played killer drums and everything always sounded great. That night, it was pretty bad. Fault of the 421s? Maybe. Either way, I didn't like the kit that night.
...so I tried 'em in a studio situation once. Gross bleed. I couldn't pull 'em down fast enough. Toms sounded fine enough when I recorded one-shot drum samples but the bleed was too gnarly (in a bad way) for my tastes. I thought the sound would be good on a kick.
I've liked some guitar cabs I know were mic'd with 421s so I could see using 'em in that application.
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Post by christopher on Oct 29, 2019 15:16:49 GMT -6
They have an old school sound to them that does make things sound beefy and rounded, with a top end that is hazy. Some recording I love must have used them because itโs a recognizable signature. Try them as distance mics for drums and bass, roll off all the highs at 4K or even down to 150, whatever you can make work. They really transform the room sound vs room condensers that are kind of like a documentary.
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 29, 2019 16:03:11 GMT -6
I might stand alone here, but fuck it...I really like 421's...I think they're great on guitar cabs (although I've since replaced with beyer m201's), great on bass cabs, can work well on horns, and in the right context work really well on vocals. In fact I'd rather record vocals with a 421 than a sm7b. I think there are much better options for toms but for hand percussion they can work really well too.
I think they're really good workhorse mics. I fell like the hatred is something I've only encountered on the internet. I mean if you don't like them on toms, don't use them on toms...not a big deal.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 29, 2019 20:19:36 GMT -6
If you bend a paperclip through the little hole where the clip connects, you can't press the button and the mic doesn't fall off. Fantastic mod.
Mine just sit in the mic locker though. Never really happy with them.
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Post by Ward on Oct 30, 2019 6:56:33 GMT -6
They make DANDY horn mics, in both meanings. Awesome on the horns of a leslie cabinet . . . and trombones and trumpets. Not so much sax.
They also make great mics for the BOTTOMS of toms.
And yeah, when miking a Marshall or similar 4x12 cabinet.... 57 on one speaker, Royer on another, 421 on yet another.
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Post by svart on Oct 30, 2019 7:31:06 GMT -6
I might stand alone here, but fuck it...I really like 421's...I think they're great on guitar cabs (although I've since replaced with beyer m201's), great on bass cabs, can work well on horns, and in the right context work really well on vocals. In fact I'd rather record vocals with a 421 than a sm7b. I think there are much better options for toms but for hand percussion they can work really well too. I think they're really good workhorse mics. I fell like the hatred is something I've only encountered on the internet. I mean if you don't like them on toms, don't use them on toms...not a big deal. I've found that they can work good on certain guitar cabs as well. You're right, I didn't like them on Tom's so I don't use them there, but I keep them around for other things I might need extra mics for. They work good if you need a Marshall cab to cut through the mix easily.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 30, 2019 12:00:35 GMT -6
If you stare at one hard enough it will pop off its clip and fall on the floor. If you DON'T stare at one carefully enough it will jump off its clip and hit the floor.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 30, 2019 12:02:43 GMT -6
They are excellent for home defense..... Nah, they break much too easily. EV 664.
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Post by nomatic on Oct 31, 2019 9:22:41 GMT -6
They are excellent for home defense..... Nah, they break much too easily. EV 664. But when intruders hear the ugly bleed they flee.....
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Post by chessparov on Nov 1, 2019 16:42:48 GMT -6
IMHO I thought the MD421 sounded very good, for my voice, when I made some demo recordings in the early 90's. Chris
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Post by trakworxmastering on Nov 2, 2019 1:27:37 GMT -6
'Have had GREAT results using 421s on: Congas. Bongos. Timbales. Tom toms. Kick drum (inside or beater) Gtr cabs (paired with R-121 and/or 57) Leslie speaker horn (stereo)
Classic studio staple mic. Just gotta place them right and they shine!
(Don't let your intern handle them unless you want them to hit the floor - damn mic lips - LOL)
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Post by bluegrassdan on Nov 2, 2019 13:31:02 GMT -6
Uses for a 421...hmmm...
Hammer Doorstop Whisking cake batter
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