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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 21:02:25 GMT -6
When did we stop having to comply with standards in video and audio for broadcast? Just a guess, but: only the final release needs to be compliant. Intermediate work, like what drbill produces, is not subject to the standard. I have no experience, only thinking about potential reasons why. Maybe I'm approaching this the wrong way: Broadcast: Stick to the standards. Streaming: Doesn't matter, it's going to get normalised. CD: Copy what you did for streaming, as long as it ain't silly crushed I think you'll be ok. ..
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Post by massivemastering on Apr 23, 2018 23:51:51 GMT -6
I am reminded to ask - at what level do Mastering Engineers prefer a mix be sent to them? Pretty much answered, but long story short, anything that "naturally" doesn't clip - as in, no limiting or excessive buss compression for the sake of non-clipping. Whether that level is at -1, -3 or -15dBFS, as long as you're in 24-bit, you're good. Averages...? I'd say that most of my clients that have properly calibrated their monitoring chain typically send in mixes between -23 and -18dB(FS)RMS that peak anywhere between -6 and -2dBFS. Several lower, some considerably lower. One I can think of swears that his mixes sound better if they peak below -18dBFS (*peak*) and I'm not gonna argue with him, as his mixes are absolutely fabulous.
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Post by trakworxmastering on May 9, 2018 9:17:39 GMT -6
I like what I get back from Justin Weiss: www.trakworx.comHe’s a purple place regular, but I started using him on my friend Jaime’s recommendation. Best I’ve found at anywhere near that rate having used some of the $100-160/song guys. Hey, thanks so much for saying so! Really gratifying to hear. Cheers, J~
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Post by trakworxmastering on May 9, 2018 9:41:03 GMT -6
Some of my music will end up on Spotify, etc., and others will end up on CD. Still others will be thrown in a bin and used by TV film editors, and never see the light of day except as used under dialog. I'm committed to mastering "semi-loud", but not crushed. BUT.....unsure of whether to aim for CD levels (-9-10-ish) or Streaming levels (-13-14-ish) with my LUFS levels. This is a tricky issue. A solution would be to make 2 different masters - one around -13LUFS (for streaming and TV) and one around -10LUFS (for CD and download). I think this would work well for you because you are savvy about digital audio. I've thought about doing this for my clients in general (send them 2 different loudnesses) but the problem is that giving the average client more than one version of their song is a recipe for confusion. They often forget/misunderstand my info on what do do with them, or simply mix up the files and use the wrong version for the wrong purpose. This happens even with labels sometimes. So I end up defaulting to my usual CD level (around -9 to -10 short term LUFS in the loud parts) unless someone specifically asks for a different level. I've focused on delivering masters that still sound punchy and dynamic at that loudness level so they can be used everywhere. I like keeping things simple and easy for my clients. Are you MEs doing it that way? Cheers, J~
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Post by trakworxmastering on May 9, 2018 9:47:20 GMT -6
The "loudness wars" are all about competing in the music meetings at CheapChannel. Unless you're going there, there's no reason to slam the levels. Likewise, if you are an established artist sure to get airplay, again there's no reason to push the level. I wish that were the case, but in my experience it's the artists themselves who want loudness. When they hear their track quieter next to someone else's track there is an emotional let down for them. It's a natural human response. I've tried to logically explain the sonic compromises but I find it very hard to reason with an emotion.
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Post by notneeson on May 9, 2018 11:53:37 GMT -6
I like what I get back from Justin Weiss: www.trakworx.comHe’s a purple place regular, but I started using him on my friend Jaime’s recommendation. Best I’ve found at anywhere near that rate having used some of the $100-160/song guys. Hey, thanks so much for saying so! Really gratifying to hear. Cheers, J~ Well, it's true! Nice work on Ashley West's EP. Hoping to send a few other things your way in the months to come.
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Post by EmRR on May 9, 2018 14:12:48 GMT -6
Sorry guys and gals, I could honestly be out of the loop.. When did we stop having to comply with standards in video and audio for broadcast? It is easily searchable www.r128audio.com/, www.soundonsound.com/techniques/end-loudness-war.. As far as I know this has been in effect since 2012 in certain countries, when it comes to music in general it seems to be a bit of a whatever train of thought but for certain industries there's a path to follow. The standard only matters for the transmitting engineer/facility, which means they mostly turn things down.....
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2019 9:57:46 GMT -6
Hey mastering guys - did we ever come to a consensus about how loud LUFS to send to streamers? I sent some -14 LUFS on a project I did and I SWEAR major label stuff is louder.
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Post by stormymondays on May 1, 2019 12:07:51 GMT -6
My own observation is that streaming services expect “CD level” loudness and are optimized to deal with it, no matter what the internet says.
FWIW, on the last mastering session I attended (at probably the top mastering studio in Europe), there was no mention of loudness at all.
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Post by trakworxmastering on May 1, 2019 20:47:49 GMT -6
Here's something that I send to my mastering clients when they inquire about targeting LUFS levels for streaming services:
Regarding mastering to streaming LUFS loudness normalization targets - I do not recommend trying to do that. I know it's discussed all over the web, but in reality very few people actually do it. To test this, try turning loudness matching off in Spotify settings, then check out the tracks listed under "New Releases" and see if you can find material that's not mastered to modern loudness for it's genre. You will probably find little to none. Here's why people aren't doing it:
1 - In the real world, loudness normalization is not always engaged. For example, Spotify Web Player and Spotify apps integrated into third-party devices (such as speakers and TVs) don’t currently use loudness normalization. And some listeners may have it switched off in their apps. If it's off then your track will sound much softer than most other tracks.
2- Even with loudness normalization turned on, many people have reported that their softer masters sound quieter than loud masters when streamed.
3 - Each streaming service has a different loudness target and there's no guarantee that they won't change their loudness targets in the future. For example, Spotify lowered their loudness target by 3dB in 2017. Also, now in Spotify Premium app settings you find 3 different loudness settings; "Quiet, Normal, and Loud". It's a moving target.
4 - Most of the streaming services don't even use LUFS to measure loudness in their algorithms. Many use "ReplayGain" or their own unique formula. Tidal is the only one that uses LUFS, so using a LUFS meter to try to match the loudness targets of most of the services is guesswork.
5 - If you happen to undershoot their loudness target, some of the streaming sites (Spotify, for one) will apply their own limiter to your track in order to raise the level without causing clipping. You might prefer to have your mastering engineer handle the limiting.
6 - Digital aggregators (CD Baby, TuneCore, etc.) generally do not allow more than one version of each song per submission, so if you want a loud master for your CD/downloads but a softer master for streaming then you have to make a separate submission altogether. If you did do that it would become confusing to keep track of the different versions (would they each need different ISRC codes?).
It has become fashionable to post online about targeting -14LUFS or so, but in my opinion, if you care about sounding approximately as loud as other artists, and until loudness normalization improves and becomes universally implemented, that is mostly well-meaning internet chatter, not good practical advice. My advice is to make one digital master that sounds good, is not overly crushed for loudness, and use it for everything. Let the various streaming sites normalize it as they wish. It will still sound just as good.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 1, 2019 22:11:57 GMT -6
Thank you for that! So much great info.
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Post by javamad on May 3, 2019 16:27:20 GMT -6
+1 thanking Justin. I am looking at setting up my room a bit better to be able to do some sort of mastering... with the sole purpose of not having the band cheap out and give it to a mate who does composition for games and have him completely f*** up the mix and then have the band release it without giving me the chance to tell them he totally over-cooked the bass. Still, its their project, their friend .. but I am a quality freak :-)
(I told them I am not set up for mastering and that I would help them find someone ... next thing I know its streaming! Ha, ha.)
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