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Post by strictlyanalog on May 16, 2019 22:12:55 GMT -6
That dipp is ODD and I don't think it should be brushed over. These 1073eq's while a good value, certainly aren't cheap. We are paying professional level money and should expect professional level results. This is starting to remind me of stockholm syndrome. I would not accept that problem with my unit. If I want to add a sharp cut to a bell boost, I would do that specifically on my own volition. I don't want that automatically built in. Maybe it is caused by some type of ringing or oscillation in the circuit. I also wonder about those capacitors in the eq circuit although I don't think that is the cause of that particular issue. I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 16, 2019 22:30:53 GMT -6
That dipp is ODD and I don't think it should be brushed over. These 1073eq's while a good value, certainly aren't cheap. We are paying professional level money and should expect professional level results. This is starting to remind me of stockholm syndrome. I would not accept that problem with my unit. If I want to add a sharp cut to a bell boost, I would do that specifically on my own volition. I don't want that automatically built in. Maybe it is caused by some type of ringing or oscillation in the circuit. I also wonder about those capacitors in the eq circuit although I don't think that is the cause of that particular issue. I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me. Welcome to RGO, strictlyanalog! Nice to meet you.
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Post by strictlyanalog on May 16, 2019 22:58:02 GMT -6
Hello Mr. Williams! Thank you. I'm excited to be here. There's a lot of vibrant discussion.
Josh,
I have some more questions. Could you please point out the polystyrene and tantalum capacitors in those pictures of your unit? In my opinion those two components have a significant effect on the sound. I want to say the manufacturer of the 2n3055 is less important than how it measures. Did you guys screen these transistors and if so, which properties?
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on May 17, 2019 1:18:50 GMT -6
Could anyone with Plugindoctor or RoomEQwizard check their eq graphs at 3.2k / 4.8k / 7.2k? Putting the unit between a test oscillator (white noise) and a spectrum analyzer would work too right? Still waiting for a tracking number, but will report back when I have the unit
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Post by askomiko on May 17, 2019 3:05:52 GMT -6
That doesn't give very clear results. I made a batch of tests with REW, I'll post them later.
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Derek Reese
Junior Member
Singer/Songwriter NYC
Posts: 90
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Post by Derek Reese on May 17, 2019 7:21:48 GMT -6
That dipp is ODD and I don't think it should be brushed over. These 1073eq's while a good value, certainly aren't cheap. We are paying professional level money and should expect professional level results. This is starting to remind me of stockholm syndrome. I would not accept that problem with my unit. If I want to add a sharp cut to a bell boost, I would do that specifically on my own volition. I don't want that automatically built in. Maybe it is caused by some type of ringing or oscillation in the circuit. I also wonder about those capacitors in the eq circuit although I don't think that is the cause of that particular issue. I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me. Welcome to RGO, strictlyanalog! Nice to meet you. Uh oh !!!! Josh made a very big point by saying they do Not use any Chinese parts of any kind. This is starting to make me worry now :-( I can overlook certain things, but not cheap parts, otherwise I would’ve just spent the money of BAE’s.
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Post by notneeson on May 17, 2019 10:25:40 GMT -6
I've seen/heard insertion loss when engaging the EQ on one specific TNC 1073 clone. Can't speak to real Neve's other than the class AB stuff (no insertion loss).
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Post by forgotteng on May 17, 2019 10:46:18 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be great if forum posts worked like a flow chart? If you care about the toshiba Wc234xniner56b as it compares to the vishay z7 than the thread goes this way. If you don't it goes this way. Kinda of like a choose your own adventure.
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Post by drbill on May 17, 2019 11:41:11 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be great if forum posts worked like a flow chart? If you care about the toshiba Wc234xniner56b as it compares to the vishay z7 than the thread goes this way. If you don't it goes this way. Kinda of like a choose your own adventure. Web 3.0. When AI hits, we'll be there!! I've got a buddy who's a CEO of a very cutting edge hi tech AI company, and that's pretty much exactly where they are headed.....
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on May 17, 2019 11:56:43 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be great if forum posts worked like a flow chart? If you care about the toshiba Wc234xniner56b as it compares to the vishay z7 than the thread goes this way. If you don't it goes this way. Kinda of like a choose your own adventure. It would be amazing to see how often the pattern repeated from thread to thread.
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Derek Reese
Junior Member
Singer/Songwriter NYC
Posts: 90
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Post by Derek Reese on May 17, 2019 12:14:27 GMT -6
I am trying to stay positive while waiting for Joshua's response on these capacitors... please say it aint so !!!!!
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on May 17, 2019 14:48:22 GMT -6
I am trying to stay positive while waiting for Joshua's response on these capacitors... please say it aint so !!!!! Yea I was expecting a tracking number on Wednesday (haven't received it, no response from Camila... I digress) and am now hoping he holds onto everything to fix these component discrepancies. This is one of the headiest gear forums I've ever come across, so I'm pretty amazed he wouldn't assume people were gonna open it up and call bullshit on Chinese parts
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Derek Reese
Junior Member
Singer/Songwriter NYC
Posts: 90
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Post by Derek Reese on May 17, 2019 15:13:01 GMT -6
I am trying to stay positive while waiting for Joshua's response on these capacitors... please say it aint so !!!!! Yea I was expecting a tracking number on Wednesday (haven't received it, no response from Camila... I digress) and am now hoping he holds onto everything to fix these component discrepancies. This is one of the headiest gear forums I've ever come across, so I'm pretty damn amazed he didn't assume people were gonna open it up and call bullshit on Chinese parts... Yeah man, i don't want those parts in my unit. After the waiting and spending money, we all want what we were told we would get period.
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Post by stam on May 17, 2019 15:17:11 GMT -6
That dipp is ODD and I don't think it should be brushed over. These 1073eq's while a good value, certainly aren't cheap. We are paying professional level money and should expect professional level results. This is starting to remind me of stockholm syndrome. I would not accept that problem with my unit. If I want to add a sharp cut to a bell boost, I would do that specifically on my own volition. I don't want that automatically built in. Maybe it is caused by some type of ringing or oscillation in the circuit. I also wonder about those capacitors in the eq circuit although I don't think that is the cause of that particular issue. I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me. Which capacitors on the EQ circuit? Which Chinese parts?
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Post by stam on May 17, 2019 15:19:31 GMT -6
I am trying to stay positive while waiting for Joshua's response on these capacitors... please say it aint so !!!!! Yea I was expecting a tracking number on Wednesday (haven't received it, no response from Camila... I digress) and am now hoping he holds onto everything to fix these component discrepancies. This is one of the headiest gear forums I've ever come across, so I'm pretty damn amazed he didn't assume people were gonna open it up and call bullshit on Chinese parts... What is your PayPal email? PM please so I can have a look Which components do you believe we should fix? We are not going to do that. The unit is perfect as it is. It is the only accurate 1073 sounding replica I have tested in the market. Every component in there is meant to be there and was chosen to be there. We are not going to worsen the unit. I still don't know by what you mean by Chinese bullshit If you could be more clear that would help.
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Post by stam on May 17, 2019 15:44:13 GMT -6
That dipp is ODD and I don't think it should be brushed over. These 1073eq's while a good value, certainly aren't cheap. We are paying professional level money and should expect professional level results. This is starting to remind me of stockholm syndrome. I would not accept that problem with my unit. If I want to add a sharp cut to a bell boost, I would do that specifically on my own volition. I don't want that automatically built in. Maybe it is caused by some type of ringing or oscillation in the circuit. I also wonder about those capacitors in the eq circuit although I don't think that is the cause of that particular issue. I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me. The dip is there on purpose. The original schematic has been respected 100% and there is a dip when engaging the EQ. We have removed these 2 resistors now from the original schematic and are shipping all units without a dip. IC have no bad reputation at all when it comes to using them on filters. These are film capacitors, like the original, not electrolytic non polarized. These actually work as a direct replacement to the Mallory. In fact IC is now Mallory as they were bought by Cornen Dubilier. Everything on the audio path is Vishay capacitors, Tantalum and Polystyrene capacitors. IC is not a Chinese company. (Illinois capacitors) and these filters sound perform the same job the same as the original. I would highly recommend you DO NOT swap them out. Their website states that they are a Chicago based company. They have factories in Europe, Mexico, China, etc.. as most manufacturers these days. Please do not put BC184 transistors on the unit. They will give you a nightmare with the HF figures being everywhere and not being reliable as the BC550. You do not need it and the 550 is a direct and identical replacement of the 184 If you change these parts you will undo all the work I did to provide you with an accurate, stable and wonderful sounding 1073 replica and create all sort of problems. You should not be disappointed, you should be happy we took these measures to give you this unit. You will have no sonic difference if you change something, not even a 0.1% improvement (or I would have done it) and cause instability for sure. The entire audio path is identical to the original. Aside from the BC550 which are direct replacements.
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Post by stam on May 17, 2019 15:44:59 GMT -6
Once again, Stam can’t seem to get out of their own way. Just be direct and honest from the start. What are you talking about? You should wait for a response before being so fast to pass judgment to another person.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2019 15:59:28 GMT -6
Uh oh !!!! Josh made a very big point by saying they do Not use any Chinese parts of any kind. This is starting to make me worry now :-( I can overlook certain things, but not cheap parts, otherwise I would’ve just spent the money of BAE’s. You should get the refund and then save up another $2000 for the BAE.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 17, 2019 16:02:50 GMT -6
That dipp is ODD and I don't think it should be brushed over. These 1073eq's while a good value, certainly aren't cheap. We are paying professional level money and should expect professional level results. This is starting to remind me of stockholm syndrome. I would not accept that problem with my unit. If I want to add a sharp cut to a bell boost, I would do that specifically on my own volition. I don't want that automatically built in. Maybe it is caused by some type of ringing or oscillation in the circuit. I also wonder about those capacitors in the eq circuit although I don't think that is the cause of that particular issue. I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me. The dip is there on purpose. The original schematic has been respected 100% and there is a dip when engaging the EQ. We have removed these 2 resistors now from the original schematic and are shipping all units without a dip. The IC has no bad reputation at all when it comes to using them on filters. These are film capacitors, like the original, not electrolytic non polarized. These actually work as a direct replacement to the Mallory. In fact IC is now Mallory as they ere bought by Cornen Dubilier. Everything on the audio path is Vishay capacitors, Tantalum and Polystyrene capacitors. IC is not a Chinese company. (Illinois capacitors) and these filters sound perform the same job the same as the original. I would highly recommend you DO NOT swap them out. Their website states that they are a Chicago based company. Please do not put BC184 transistors on the unit. They will give you a nightmare with the HF figures being everywhere and not being reliable as the BC550. You do not need it and the 550 is a direct and identical replacement of the 184 If you change these parts you will undo all the work I did to provide you with an accurate, stable and wonderful sounding 1073 replica and create all sort of problems. You should not be disappointed, you should be happy we took these measures to give you this unit. You will have no sonic difference if you change something, not even a 0.1% improvement (or I would have done it) and cause instability for sure. The entire audio path is identical to the original. Aside from the BC550 which are direct replacements. Don’t believe he’s referring to the volume dip, he’s referring to this realgearonline.com/post/197125/thread
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Post by kcatthedog on May 17, 2019 16:05:14 GMT -6
strictlyanalog Speaking of answers and as someone interested in this unit, could you please specify the exact parts you are claiming are cheap Chinese parts by their board placement number and their specific part number? Thx.
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Post by stam on May 17, 2019 16:20:29 GMT -6
Uh oh !!!! Josh made a very big point by saying they do Not use any Chinese parts of any kind. This is starting to make me worry now :-( I can overlook certain things, but not cheap parts, otherwise I would’ve just spent the money of BAE’s. You should get the refund and then save up another $2000 for the BAE. It will not sound closer to a real Neve. It's all on the LO116 replica
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Derek Reese
Junior Member
Singer/Songwriter NYC
Posts: 90
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Post by Derek Reese on May 17, 2019 17:12:44 GMT -6
Once i saw someone doubt something in the 1073eq, it made me worry a little. But this was before Joshua was able to respond. After his response i feel good again. But it makes me also realize that i shouldn't let anyone ruffle my feathers before knowing what the deal is. My apologies Joshua
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on May 17, 2019 17:47:13 GMT -6
PM please so I can have a look Which components do you believe we should fix? We are not going to do that. The unit is perfect as it is. It is the only accurate 1073 sounding replica I have tested in the market. Every component in there is meant to be there and was chosen to be there. We are not going to worsen the unit. I still don't know by what you mean by Chinese bullshit If you could be more clear that would help. I'm not the one that's accused you of anything. I just said that if people on here are upset about parts, I'd want my unit to come after the concerns have been dealt with. Also, I didn't say that you use "Chinese bullshit." I said that people would "call bullshit" on the use of Chinese parts. This is an American expression for "saying that something isn't as advertised." My comment about "Chinese parts" was a reaction to reading: I thought those were supposed to be polystyrene? The ones I saw in the pictures a couple posts ago in the eq section were IC MWR which are run of the mill (and chinese) metalized polyster film capacitors. IC actually has a pretty bad rep as far as capacitor quality. Their electrolytic caps were notorious for failing in cheap fender tube amps. I'm definitely going to swap those things out in mine! I'll get original transistors as well and will only install after making sure the critical measured properties are met. I'm disappointed by those changes made by Stam. Of course, I haven't heard my unit yet but I really don't want to have the issue in frequency response. Unacceptable to me. I'm not critiquing you. I'm a customer that wouldn't be able to identify these things on his own. When I see someone in a respected DIY community claim that they visibly see Chinese parts, it seems reasonable to raise a concern after putting $1000 in and reading the recent pages confirming that parts were, in fact, swapped from the announced design. If my unit wasn't gonna sound great, I would have heard about it from John already. I want to assure you that we are on the same team, I have great confidence in the unit, and I meant no offense. I apologize if any was taken.
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Post by 000 on May 17, 2019 19:29:46 GMT -6
Once i saw someone doubt something in the 1073eq, it made me worry a little. But this was before Joshua was able to respond. After his response i feel good again. But it makes me also realize that i shouldn't let anyone ruffle my feathers before knowing what the deal is. My apologies Joshua I would say it’s probably better practice to listen to established forum members who’ve actually used the unit and have “real gear” experience vs brand new accounts out of the blue. I’m very happy w/ my 1073MPA with sowters. Sounds thick, smooth, and classy. I’ve always wondered how many of these delays is really just Josh trying to nail the sound.
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Post by indiehouse on May 17, 2019 19:58:08 GMT -6
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