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Post by klauth on Apr 5, 2018 10:23:21 GMT -6
When you turn to a big commercial studio for your drum tracking duties/needs. Do you have specific mic model desiers/expectations in mind or do you just go with what's available in their mic locker?
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Post by notneeson on Apr 5, 2018 11:02:09 GMT -6
When you turn to a big commercial studio for your drum tracking duties/needs. Do you have specific mic model desiers/expectations in mind or do you just go with what's available in their mic locker? I know peeps who will rent specific vocal mics to augment what’s there. But for drum tracking it would be a shame for any commercial room not to have that more or less covered. I used to bring my own overheads to one place until I discovered their SF12.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 5, 2018 11:27:26 GMT -6
I just booked time at a local studio because they have coles 4038's, and those are exactly what I want on OH for this upcoming album. Other than that I expect some nice LDC to use as room mics. I find that most studios have a pretty regular assortment of dynamics to use on drums (57's, 421's, re20 etc) so I'm not so concerned about that element.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Apr 5, 2018 11:57:08 GMT -6
I expect the usual dynamic suspects at any “ commercial studio” If they don’t have at least a real 87 some respected SDC’s , a 414 and some interesting LDC and some respected ribbons! If you want to be considered high end a decent well known 251, C12 and U47 clone, no Chinese Capsules!
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Post by drbill on Apr 5, 2018 13:53:21 GMT -6
YES! I have expectations. Otherwise, why rent the room?
Of course, the #1 importance factor is the room itself, and beyond that mics, and finally, pre's. Of course, the choices would be determined by the style of music, player, drums, and most importantly, the room itself.
What I would expect :
(2) C12's - OH (2) 4038's - OH (2) UM70's - OH option (3-4) Vintage 87's - OH or toms (4-5) KM84's / 86's - OH, toms, snare (1) 47FET - Outside Kick (1) Dynamic kick Mic. Could be one of the 4-5 popular variants. I prefer the Audix (3) 421's (although I prefer not to use em) - toms, kick (4) SM57's or better, the older Unidynes. - toms, snare (1) M201 - snare (1-5) Audix i5's, toms, snare (1-2) 441's - snare or ? (1-2) U47's - room (2) 77DX - room (2) Vintage 451's - hat or spot cymbals A bunch of additional Gefells would be a wonderful bonus for me.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 5, 2018 16:00:42 GMT -6
When you turn to a big commercial studio for your drum tracking duties/needs. Do you have specific mic model desiers/expectations in mind or do you just go with what's available in their mic locker? Were I to rent time at a "big" studio, the contents of the mic locker would definitely be one of my primary concerns. And yes, I would have expectations.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 5, 2018 16:12:58 GMT -6
I expect the usual dynamic suspects at any “ commercial studio” If they don’t have at least a real 87 some respected SDC’s , a 414 and some interesting LDC and some respected ribbons! If you want to be considered high end a decent well known 251, C12 and U47 clone, no Chinese Capsules! to start with, I would expect them to have mics I don't already own, which I would also bring. or in some cases more of certain models than I have. Mics I don't own I'd want for drums - at least 2 U67s; at least 2 4038s, a 47 fet, 2 if double kick. With most kits I woudn't use more than 7 mics total, including rooms. And that's using kick in and out mics. With a monster kit I might want some spot mics (or not?)
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Post by sean on Apr 5, 2018 18:53:04 GMT -6
Whenever I book an outside studio it’s usually for their grand piano, or the space. I don’t have a large tracking room or a grand piano, so if it’s a client where they need that I’ll book an outside studio...most always Sound Emporium. There are studios that have a more impressive gear list and microphone selection, but I like the way their rooms sound and they have a great staff. I’ve never booked a place because they had a particular microphone. Maybe I’m spoiled here in Nashville because if someone really wanted a 251 or something like that I’d go rent it. But, I worked at a rental company for a few years and could borrow 251s, C12s, U67s, 47s, and a large assortment of outboard and I rarely did because I never thought “oh, I need that to make this sound good”
So, in short, for me, a commercial studio should have a nice grand piano, ample space for a 5 or 6 piece band and a singer, and good assistant engineers. Everything else is a bonus
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Post by bradd on Apr 5, 2018 19:22:55 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list.
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Post by klauth on Apr 5, 2018 19:36:37 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. I'm getting there, haha
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Post by m03 on Apr 5, 2018 19:37:03 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. I'd bet that number is considerably higher, but I'm no expert. The only real standouts appear to be the pair of C12s, a U47, and a pair of 77DXs.
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Post by c0rtland on Apr 5, 2018 19:47:11 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. I'd bet that number is considerably higher, but I'm no expert. The only real standouts appear to be the pair of C12s, a U47, and a pair of 77DXs. and the room. I bet the c12's are rarer than 47's at this point especially if you consider clones viable options. And I've never heard a c12, but if they somehow sound better than redds as oh's (which I'm sure they very well may) I never want to hear them.
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Post by drbill on Apr 5, 2018 20:17:47 GMT -6
Haha!! There's probably not a lot of studio's that have EVERYthing on my list, but there's a lot that get close enough. I know even Capitol couldn't meet every mic on my list. Maybe Conway could.... Certainly many that could with a couple of rentals. Aside from the C12's and maybe the 47's....it's really not that exotic of a list. The Gefell's are not rare or uber valuable, but not real widespread either. I'd be OK with 44's instead of 77's, a Flea or other high end clone instead of the 47's, more UM70's instead of the 87's, etc.. But the question was asked what my desire / expectation would be, and that's what it would be. I've got a pretty respectable mic locker here, and a great sounding "smallish" room, so to lure me out.....you gots ta have da goods. I wouldn't use EVERYthing on the list, but that's a list that would make me feel comfortable recording pretty much any sort of "normal" drum set - no matter the style, drummer, kit size or room. All bets are off with uber insane mega kits.
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Post by EmRR on Apr 5, 2018 20:19:25 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. I'm getting there, haha But do you have a big commercial room? That list IN a big commercial room is the rarity. Lots of impressive mic collections out there NOT in commercial studios.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 5, 2018 20:27:14 GMT -6
Pair of 4038’s Pair of 67’s A stereo ribbon (sf12 or the AEA stereo guy) FET 47 Pair m160’s Pair of 77’s or 44’s Pair of 84’s
I think the most enjoyable thing about drum tracking is picking the mics and drums and pairing them to the room and player in a way that works for the song. In order for that to work, I like having some choices to pick from. I’ve been very Lucky to work in a room where I can basically pick anything I want with the exception of a 251. The above are my go to’s aside from all the usual dynamic suspects.
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Post by jamiesego on Apr 5, 2018 20:46:49 GMT -6
Damn, I've got a long way to go to complete a "big studio" mic locker.
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Post by Quint on Apr 5, 2018 21:56:14 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. Sear Sound is probably one of them. I would just set up a bed in the storage closet and live there if they would let me.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 5, 2018 22:04:56 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. There are probably close to 10 in NYC alone.
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Post by rowmat on Apr 5, 2018 23:39:20 GMT -6
So far we haven't found either the need or been requested to track drums etc. at other studios.
Of course if you don't have a suitable space at all to record live drums then obviously you'll want a choice of decent mics if you're going to the expense and trouble of tracking in a decent room.
Personally I like to see things like Coles 4038's, KM84's, U47 FET, U67's, AKG451's, Beyer M88, most of the Heil range and some other decent ribbons. SM57's and 421's are common as mud on snare and toms but I'd rather stick a KM84 or Beyer M201 on a snare and Heil PR30's on toms are pretty nice.
I'd also consider what pre/EQ's you're getting (Neve/API etc?) and definitely use the EQ's when tracking as they will give you tone most plugins won't and I'd be aiming to get 90% finished drum sounds during tracking. I'd be careful about using too much compression/limiting during tracking.
We don't have a big studio and our main room is definitely not very live but is quite neutral and doesn't imprint anything nasty on our drum tracks.
I've concentrated on building our own reasonably decent mic collection over the past few years.
With some recent projects we are mixing (but didn't track) I've had drums tracks recorded elsewhere with some pretty significant room signatures especially in the O/H's.
This sometimes is fine but other times not so much.
As long as the drums are well recorded I'd rather not be stuck with a specific room tone that may not suit the track.
We don't do mega 80's style rock bands so big drum rooms aren't something we worry about.
However looking at other studio's mic lists ours is probably more comprehensive (see below) than most of the mid-range inner city Melbourne studios with maybe the exception of a U47 FET and something like U67's.
I'm still on the lookout for a couple of Neumann KM86's and Gefell UM70’s (and maybe a U47 FET) but overall I'm pretty much done looking for mics.
This is not everything, we have a few vintage EV's an STC Cricketball plus other odd bits and pieces.
LARGE DIAPHRAGM CONDENSER MICROPHONES
Bock 251 – Tube Flea 47 – Tube Neumann U77 – FET Custom C12 Tube – (Tim Campbell Capsule) Rode NT2000 – FET
SMALL DIAPHRAGM CONDENSER MICROPHONES
AKG 451EB (Vintage) – FET x2 AKG C60 – Tube Audio Technica AT871 PZM x 2 Josephson C42 FET x 2 Neumann KMS84i – FET Neumann KM84 – FET x 3 (inc. 3 x KK85 capsules) Neumann KM184 – FET x 2 Neumann KM54 – Tube (Nickel Capsule) Oktava MK-012 FET (Inc. Cardioid, Hyper-Cardioid, Omni Capsules) x 2
RIBBON MICROPHONES
AEA R84 AEA N22 x 2 (Modified as N8's) Beyer Dynamic M160 x 2 Beyer Dynamic M-360 Coles 4038 x 2 Cascade Fathead II (Lundahl Transformers) x 2 Cascade Vinjet Cascade X15 Stereo (Lundahl Transformers) Rode NTR x 2
DYNAMIC MICROPHONES
Audio Technica ATM25 Audio Technica Pro9D x 3 Beyer Dynamic M88 Beyer Dynamic M201 Beyer Dynamic M69 Heil PR22 Heil PR31Bw x 3 Heil PR40 Heil PR48 Shure SM57 x 3 Shure SM58 x 2 Subkick Mic (Custom)
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 5, 2018 23:51:36 GMT -6
I like Dr. Bill’s list, but I’ll bet there aren’t ten studios in the US that have everything on that list. I'd bet that number is considerably higher, but I'm no expert. The only real standouts appear to be the pair of C12s, a U47, and a pair of 77DXs. I'd agree with that. There have got to be a fair number that could meet that list, or come close enough. I can think of at least two or three in SF alone, maybe more. And that's not counting Fantasy in Berkeley. Or the North Bay.
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Post by EmRR on Apr 6, 2018 6:32:51 GMT -6
I took drbill's list to mean ACTUAL C12's, whereas many have interpreted that as 'C12 clone or style'. Actual U47's, etc.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Apr 6, 2018 6:52:54 GMT -6
If your a freelancer outside of Nashville or the West Coast first lesson if you have to have it you better bring it! Outside of the world class rooms I remember almost every time I would walk into a studio it always seamed that something I wanted was broken. So make the gear list 3rd priority get a great room and a great tech and tech budget, there is a huge difference between what I want and what I need! It also is going to be easier to get the sound I want in a great room where everything works than an OK room where stuff needs work!
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Post by happychap on Apr 6, 2018 7:11:36 GMT -6
Whenever I book an outside studio it’s usually for their grand piano, or the space. I don’t have a large tracking room or a grand piano, so if it’s a client where they need that I’ll book an outside studio...most always Sound Emporium. There are studios that have a more impressive gear list and microphone selection, but I like the way their rooms sound and they have a great staff. I’ve never booked a place because they had a particular microphone. Maybe I’m spoiled here in Nashville because if someone really wanted a 251 or something like that I’d go rent it. But, I worked at a rental company for a few years and could borrow 251s, C12s, U67s, 47s, and a large assortment of outboard and I rarely did because I never thought “oh, I need that to make this sound good” So, in short, for me, a commercial studio should have a nice grand piano, ample space for a 5 or 6 piece band and a singer, and good assistant engineers. Everything else is a bonus Just wanted to give a shout out to Sean, who has helped make MANY great records- from Tim O'brien and The Devil Makes Three, to Jake Bugg and Mac Wiseman (and the list goes on). Way to go, Sean!
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Post by EmRR on Apr 6, 2018 8:09:09 GMT -6
If your a freelancer outside of Nashville or the West Coast first lesson if you have to have it you better bring it! Outside of the world class rooms I remember almost every time I would walk into a studio it always seamed that something I wanted was broken. So make the gear list 3rd priority get a great room and a great tech and tech budget, there is a huge difference between what I want and what I need! It also is going to be easier to get the sound I want in a great room where everything works than an OK room where stuff needs work! Yes, I've mentioned going to a 'large commercial music studio' before and taking many mics, stands, cables, headphone amps, and headphones, because I already had as much or more than they did. Pretty much like doing a remote job. Did I mention really starting into this primarily because at the time I could not reliably rent a good room with any decent availability?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 6, 2018 8:23:48 GMT -6
If your a freelancer outside of Nashville or the West Coast first lesson if you have to have it you better bring it! Outside of the world class rooms I remember almost every time I would walk into a studio it always seamed that something I wanted was broken. So make the gear list 3rd priority get a great room and a great tech and tech budget, there is a huge difference between what I want and what I need! It also is going to be easier to get the sound I want in a great room where everything works than an OK room where stuff needs work! Yes, I've mentioned going to a 'large commercial music studio' before and taking many mics, stands, cables, headphone amps, and headphones, because I already had as much or more than they did. Pretty much like doing a remote job. Did I mention really starting into this primarily because at the time I could not reliably rent a good room with any decent availability? That and you quickly realized how much someone had spent on that room! It was always great to find somebody who was nuts enough to put every penny on a room and have the convtthat begins you have the room I’ve got the gear...
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