|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 13:45:01 GMT -6
Let's say you have $5k for gear to record acoustic guitar and vocals (yes, at the same time), what would your chain look like? Thx!
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Mar 24, 2018 14:18:05 GMT -6
Let's say you have $5k for gear to record acoustic guitar and vocals (yes, at the same time), what would your chain look like? Thx! The same person?
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 14:19:31 GMT -6
Let's say you have $5k for gear to record acoustic guitar and vocals (yes, at the same time), what would your chain look like? Thx! The same person? Indeed.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Mar 24, 2018 14:21:12 GMT -6
I would have way more questions than answers..
What is your interface? What kind of music/voice? What kind of space are your recording in? ..is it treated? I.e., should you really be spending all 5k on the chain? What's your preferred method of recording guitar? (I.e., how many mics and of what types) What's your philosophy regarding whether or not you should put any kind of processing (e.g. EQ, compression) in the chain. 500 series? Do you have any gear that you might be able to use? Might you be willing to spend all 5k on a good part of the chain (enough to get up and running), and then purchase the rest of it when you can raise the cash?
On the other hand, if your question is rhetorical, then maybe you could start things off with your dream chain?
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Mar 24, 2018 14:23:18 GMT -6
Is one mono channel OK? Or do you demand separation?
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 14:28:33 GMT -6
I would have way more questions than answers.. What is your interface? What kind of music/voice? What kind of space are your recording in? ..is it treated? I.e., should you really be spending all 5k on the chain? What's your preferred method of recording guitar? (I.e., how many mics and of what types) What's your philosophy regarding whether or not you should put any kind of processing (e.g. EQ, compression) in the chain. 500 series? Do you have any gear that you might be able to use? Might you be willing to spend all 5k on a good part of the chain (enough to get up and running), and then purchase the rest of it when you can raise the cash? On the other hand, if your question is rhetorical, then maybe you could start things off with your dream chain? Apogee Element, 2 channel Folk Blues I have a very controlled room as well as a live room Usually I like mono guitar, but I'm willing to listen to the case for a 2-mic capture of guitar (but singing too? phase issues multiply) I have no philosophy on compression during tracking, and would rather the mics/placement do the work of EQ 500 series or not This is not a rhetorical question, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 14:30:02 GMT -6
Is one mono channel OK? Or do you demand separation? I have recorded single mic capture (of guitar and vocals) and every time I do that, it sounds flat compared to separate mics. That said, I really dig singing and playing into one mic!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 24, 2018 14:34:14 GMT -6
Chandler REDD mic on vocal, Soyuz 0-13 guitar, any interface. The Chandler in Omni would fix you're single mic issue :-)
That, or...
Soyuz 0-19 FET on guitar, (20 pros chose it best acoustic guitar mic while blind in a studio shootout I attended when compared to a vintage U67, U87, Soyuz 0-17 and a KM84.
Golden Age U47 on vocal.
Heritage Audio HA73 EQ Elite or Stam SA73
Stam SA2A
Done.
Best vocal chain I know of, Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada". I wrote to Russ Kunkle, and he replied, vintage black U67 on vocal, Telefunken C-24 on guitar, with bleed from both. All through a custom Massenberg preamp and compressor.
* I'll have a Stam SA67 in a month or two, so the Golden Age mic choice could change.
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 14:50:44 GMT -6
Chandler REDD mic on vocal, Soyuz 0-13 guitar, any interface. The Chandler in Omni would fix you're single mic issue :-) That, or... Soyuz 0-19 FET on guitar, (20 pros chose it best acoustic guitar mic while blind in a studio shootout I attended when compared to a vintage U67, U87, Soyuz 0-17 and a KM84. Golden Age U47 on vocal. Heritage Audio HA73 EQ Elite or Stam SA73 Stam SA2A Done. Best vocal chain I know of, Lyle Lovette's "Road to Ensenada". I wrote to Russ Kunkle, and he replied, vintage black U67 on vocal, Telefunken C-24 on guitar, with bleed from both. All through a custom Massenberg preamp and compressor. * I'll have a Stam SA67 in a month or two, so the Golden Age mic choice could change.Thanks for the input. So is the SA2A (or equivalent) a game changer on vocals? And you'd track with it? No comp for acoustic?
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Mar 24, 2018 15:00:01 GMT -6
KM84 w/ an SM7 can be great for this. Good isolation of the vocal mic but some space offered by the guitar mic bleed.
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 15:28:10 GMT -6
KM84 w/ an SM7 can be great for this. Good isolation of the vocal mic but some space offered by the guitar mic bleed. Thx. I've had SM7's a couple of times- I keep selling them! Maybe I'll have another go... Also, if any of you folks want to share your stripped down acoustic guitar/vocal recordings, I'd love to take a listen as a point of reference.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Mar 24, 2018 16:03:42 GMT -6
I put a single U87 up and set the height off the floor, to balance the acoustic guitar (Taylor mahogany mini) and my voice.
1073 DMP into STAM SA2A , Bricasti Verb.
Thats as good as I can do
Cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Mar 24, 2018 16:35:50 GMT -6
I would spend most of the money on the guitar, and the vocal microphone.
Probably a 251 style in fig-8 to null out the guitar on the vocal track. Anywhere from $1,000-3,000. Works for my voice.
Guitar mic, I will happily use a KM184. Or a good ribbon mic. I like a modified Apex 205. A ShinyBox would be similar to mine off the shelf. Each option about $500. C-12 style is also a good sound. Another $1,000 or more.
Guitar maybe a Martin or a Taylor USA. Maybe $700-2,000.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Mar 24, 2018 16:54:32 GMT -6
I would spend most of the money on the guitar, and the vocal microphone. Probably a 251 style in fig-8 to null out the guitar on the vocal track. Anywhere from $1,000-3,000. Works for my voice. Guitar mic, I will happily use a KM184. Or a good ribbon mic. I like a modified Apex 205. A ShinyBox would be similar to mine off the shelf. Each option about $500. C-12 style is also a good sound. Another $1,000 or more. Guitar maybe a Martin or a Taylor USA. Maybe $700-2,000. Yes, the guitar is part of the chain, but I'm assuming that isn't what he's talking about spending the 5k on. Otherwise, it begs the question, "What does the voice cost?"
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 16:55:15 GMT -6
I put a single U87 up and set the height off the floor, to balance the acoustic guitar (Taylor mahogany mini) and my voice. 1073 DMP into STAM SA2A , Bricasti Verb. Thats as good as I can do Cheers Wiz Nice! Makes me think about giving the single mic technique another shot.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Mar 24, 2018 16:57:34 GMT -6
I would spend most of the money on the guitar, and the vocal microphone. Probably a 251 style in fig-8 to null out the guitar on the vocal track. Anywhere from $1,000-3,000. Works for my voice. Guitar mic, I will happily use a KM184. Or a good ribbon mic. I like a modified Apex 205. A ShinyBox would be similar to mine off the shelf. Each option about $500. C-12 style is also a good sound. Another $1,000 or more. Guitar maybe a Martin or a Taylor USA. Maybe $700-2,000. Yes, the guitar is part of the chain, but I'm assuming that isn't what he's talking about spending the 5k on. Otherwise, it begs the question, "What does the voice cost?" In my world, $5K is a huge amount of money. And if someone asked me this question, even owning what I do, I'd be looking at the guitar big time. Even If I had a nice guitar I'd still be looking at the guitar as a place to spend a few thousand. It's not a small concern. Say what you will about my voice or his voice ;-P I got it for free, by the way.
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Mar 24, 2018 16:58:09 GMT -6
Nice! Makes me think about giving the single mic technique another shot. We don't call him wiz for nothin'
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 17:04:06 GMT -6
I do have a couple of guitars- a 1959 0-15 and a Collings Baby (all hog). These are some small guitars and honestly not exactly the sound I'm looking for (I'd love a punchy, mid-range heavy guitar like an L-00 or a Waterloo).
Thanks again for the input. I may give it a go with the Soyuz 019, a great river NV and some kind of la2a- and try that as a single mic setup. And then maybe add a Soyuz 011 if it seems like I need a guitar mic. That does put me at $5k...dang, it adds up fast!
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Mar 24, 2018 18:42:09 GMT -6
In Wiz's example, the phase integrity is a huge bonus; it does require a mic with good pull i.e. can be positioned some way off the source and still sound great so the Chandler ( which I've never used ) or something of similar quality could be a good option . In that instance I would also put a sm 58 up close but off to the side of the vocalist so you can use that as a reverb send if required at mix.
The bonus of this purchase is it's a mic you'll probably never question and have forever.
Normally I would run fig 8 on both guitar and vox so 2 quality mics that sound great on their respective source without immediately adding eq. I've had good success with a Beesneez Arabella on vox and a Blue woodpecker on guitar with the last soloist I worked with.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Mar 24, 2018 19:29:06 GMT -6
In Wiz's example, the phase integrity is a huge bonus; it does require a mic with good pull i.e. can be positioned some way off the source and still sound great so the Chandler ( which I've never used ) or something of similar quality could be a good option . In that instance I would also put a sm 58 up close but off to the side of the vocalist so you can use that as a reverb send if required at mix. The bonus of this purchase is it's a mic you'll probably never question and have forever. Normally I would run fig 8 on both guitar and vox so 2 quality mics that sound great on their respective source without immediately adding eq. I've had good success with a Beesneez Arabella on vox and a Blue woodpecker on guitar with the last soloist I worked with. Cheers, Ross Love the Beesneez Arabella, great mic.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Mar 24, 2018 19:32:31 GMT -6
KM84 w/ an SM7 can be great for this. Good isolation of the vocal mic but some space offered by the guitar mic bleed. Thx. I've had SM7's a couple of times- I keep selling them! Maybe I'll have another go... Also, if any of you folks want to share your stripped down acoustic guitar/vocal recordings, I'd love to take a listen as a point of reference. You could look at other flavors of dynamic mic for this scenario, see if one stands out on your voice— the larger Heil mics are nice, RE20 works on many voices, maybe a 441. I don't think it's so much about "the one and only best chain" as it is about finding one that inspires you.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 24, 2018 19:51:32 GMT -6
Pair of BeesNeez Lulu mics into Phoenix preamps and a Flea 47 into a BAE preamp. I had a few compressors cooking too (Weight Tank and Locomotive), but you could great sounds without the compressors with just these mics and pres.
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 20:29:25 GMT -6
i like one mic too but i wouldn't want that to be my only choice. I'd definitely get at least a pair of multi pattern mics with clean preamps or a three mic setup like below.
km86 and pair of samar ribbon mics. then a pair of sm57's. whilst i haven't used the samar or the km86 they'd be high on my list.
|
|
|
Post by happychap on Mar 24, 2018 20:58:51 GMT -6
I was thinking that this would be less of a hypothetical exercise and more of a 'this is what I do, and this is what it sounds like' kind of thread. Perhaps the basic 'guy with guitar' is not as popular as I'd like to think. The Flea/Lulu track was a tad brighter than I thought that chain would be (was it high passed?). Here's probably the best I've done (just a clip) single KSM 32 into audient id14: sm32-audient.mp3 (509.62 KB)) I keep wanting to believe that I don't have to spend big bucks, but then I realize how crappy all my recordings sound.
|
|
|
Post by nnajar on Mar 24, 2018 21:18:31 GMT -6
Folk blues? Definitely single mic mono. Get your ambience from your reverb. Or single mic and a further back spaced Omni pair for stereo natural ambience.
I’d go schoeps mk22 for the main mic. Doesn’t need compression, shouldn’t need eq. Put the mic the correct distance for your desired tone and balance and then just get the performance right.
|
|