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Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 4:37:02 GMT -6
Id like to start working towards getting the cash together for a pair of schoeps mics.
What's the most cost effective model for entry into schoeps world and what should I expect to pay.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 6:14:42 GMT -6
Post by Vincent R. on Mar 24, 2018 6:14:42 GMT -6
^This^
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 6:41:38 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Mar 24, 2018 6:41:38 GMT -6
Have you used one that you liked, or what has swayed you to begin this journey?
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 6:53:27 GMT -6
via mobile
EmRR likes this
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 6:53:27 GMT -6
Have you used one that you liked, or what has swayed you to begin this journey? Every shootout involving schoeps mics I've heard I've preferred the schoeps. I terms of what I am chasing. Its detail, depth and a sense of realism with a flattish response. So I would consider anything that works in that space.
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Post by swurveman on Mar 24, 2018 7:13:11 GMT -6
Have you used one that you liked, or what has swayed you to begin this journey? This is a useful question. I bought a pair of Schoeps CMC-6 SDC's with MK4 capsules hoping to use them as a stereo pair for overheads and acoustic guitar. They were too bright in my room and I sold them. I'd demo them in the op's room on the sources he wants to use them on first.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 7:20:22 GMT -6
Post by EmRR on Mar 24, 2018 7:20:22 GMT -6
Have you used one that you liked, or what has swayed you to begin this journey? Every shootout involving schoeps mics I've heard I've preferred the schoeps. I terms of what I am chasing. Its detail, depth and a sense of realism with a flattish response. So I would consider anything that works in that space. Have those shoot-outs included an MKH40/etc? It also fits the description you've made. I've not personally compared the two types. I do have several MKH I'm happy with.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 8:04:43 GMT -6
Post by aremos on Mar 24, 2018 8:04:43 GMT -6
Have you used one that you liked, or what has swayed you to begin this journey? This is a useful question. I bought a pair of Schoeps CMC-6 SDC's with MK4 capsules ... This IS the pair one should start off with. Except I've had the opposite experience with A GTRs - great on steel & nylon. Even on vox they're pretty balanced & "flat". Once you have the module (CMC-6 or the older 5) there's a plethora of capsules (MK's) to put on. MK4 is supposed to be the (safest) cardioid hence usually a starting point.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 24, 2018 10:19:55 GMT -6
What are you going to use them for?
The 2's(not to be confused with the 2s capsule) are great sounding but are omnis.
The 4's are also great and cardioid.
the 2h's as awesome with more presence than the 2.
Personally I like DPAs more when we do the tests, I do most classic work and the DPAs have a beautifully deep lowend which more people like. But i very much like using the Schoeps stuff for outdoor recordings and the mk4s for spot mics.
I usually end up using either DPA4006s or DPA4041s or Schoeps MK2 for mains for my surround bird. Often for just string quartets if the violin player has a harsher instrument the Schoeps help tame some of the harshness.
Using Grace m802s for mic pres.
Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with any Schoeps. For the price they are stellar small diaphragm mics.
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Deleted
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 14:12:03 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 14:12:03 GMT -6
Id like to start working towards getting the cash together for a pair of schoeps mics. What's the most cost effective model for entry into schoeps world and what should I expect to pay. What do you want to do with them? Room mics, close mics, exactly what? If you buy them new, figure on a capsule/CMC6 amp combination costing you $1600 or so. They're not much discounted. And plan on picking up Rycote mounts for them. I've got a pair of MK2 a pair of MK2H and a single MK21. I'd love more. But I record classical music (not widely done on this board). They are wonderful mics, but are perhaps less flexible than other mics for general studio use.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 16:14:05 GMT -6
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 16:14:05 GMT -6
Every shootout involving schoeps mics I've heard I've preferred the schoeps. I terms of what I am chasing. Its detail, depth and a sense of realism with a flattish response. So I would consider anything that works in that space. Have those shoot-outs included an MKH40/etc? It also fits the description you've made. not that i'm aware of. the sennheisers are on my radar as well and have been for a while the only thing stopping me is the "thought" of the schoeps.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 16:16:37 GMT -6
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 16:16:37 GMT -6
Id like to start working towards getting the cash together for a pair of schoeps mics. What's the most cost effective model for entry into schoeps world and what should I expect to pay. What do you want to do with them? Room mics, close mics, exactly what? If you buy them new, figure on a capsule/CMC6 amp combination costing you $1600 or so. They're not much discounted. And plan on picking up Rycote mounts for them. I've got a pair of MK2 a pair of MK2H and a single MK21. I'd love more. But I record classical music (not widely done on this board). They are wonderful mics, but are perhaps less flexible than other mics for general studio use. I'm looking for a step up from my ksm137 for room mics.
they will also get used on acoustic instruments. piano, cello, violin, guitar etc.
I've got some good options currently but I'm looking for a step up in quality and sound.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 16:18:52 GMT -6
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 16:18:52 GMT -6
What are you going to use them for? The 2's(not to be confused with the 2s capsule) are great sounding but are omnis. The 4's are also great and cardioid. the 2h's as awesome with more presence than the 2. Personally I like DPAs more when we do the tests, I do most classic work and the DPAs have a beautifully deep lowend which more people like. But i very much like using the Schoeps stuff for outdoor recordings and the mk4s for spot mics. I usually end up using either DPA4006s or DPA4041s or Schoeps MK2 for mains for my surround bird. Often for just string quartets if the violin player has a harsher instrument the Schoeps help tame some of the harshness. Using Grace m802s for mic pres. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with any Schoeps. For the price they are stellar small diaphragm mics. thx. I'm good with mic preamps. the pips have an ein figure of around 133.
I do need a quieter mic option on very quiet sources.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 16:24:25 GMT -6
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 16:24:25 GMT -6
I should also add.
I record in random spaces. lounge rooms, bedrooms, churches, halls, wilderness... adventure recording as silvia massey calls it. sometimes I need mics that remove the room and sometimes mics that celebrate the room.
the schoeps would fall into the celebrate category.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 18:46:18 GMT -6
the schoeps would fall into the celebrate category. They certainly do that. But even in a moderate room they're very nice--in no small part because of their fine frequency response. I do have a friend who uses them occasionally for spots on vocal soloists, but that's usually at a 1-2 meter standoff. I think you may have better options for spots (there's a reason you hear good things about 84's). And it never hurts to have a quality ribbon in the locker.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 19:01:20 GMT -6
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 19:01:20 GMT -6
I've got vintage gefell and rca mics. not the usual suspects but they sound amazing none the less. they're the mics that have convinced me to upgrade other areas.
everything I track with those mics sounds excellent.
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schoeps
Mar 24, 2018 22:35:20 GMT -6
Post by gouge on Mar 24, 2018 22:35:20 GMT -6
so what would you guys be prepared to pay for a second hand pair of schoeps with card capsules.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 25, 2018 0:43:02 GMT -6
Over here in Europe, the price for a pair of used CMC6 mk4s is anywhere between 1400€ and 2200€. Given that there are a lot of used schoeps available over here it's usually closer to 1400.
Schoeps are great mics. I use mine for drum overheads, acoustic guitars and the occasional strings.
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Post by joseph on Mar 25, 2018 10:37:40 GMT -6
My favorite Schoeps capsule in this category is the MK22, because it is basically flat but less focused than the MK4, to which I definitely prefer the KM84. The MK22 is probably the most natural spot pickup I've ever heard. However the MK4 will work best in typical stereo configs like DIN and ORTF so if you're recording lots of acoustic ensembles, that's the way to go.
For general studio spot I think the Josephson e22s is the best of all. Because it sounds excellent on both acoustic plectrums and strings, loud amps and drums, and has more low end, better rejection and resolution at high SPL than the KM84.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 25, 2018 19:20:48 GMT -6
What are you going to use them for? The 2's(not to be confused with the 2s capsule) are great sounding but are omnis. The 4's are also great and cardioid. the 2h's as awesome with more presence than the 2. Personally I like DPAs more when we do the tests, I do most classic work and the DPAs have a beautifully deep lowend which more people like. But i very much like using the Schoeps stuff for outdoor recordings and the mk4s for spot mics. I usually end up using either DPA4006s or DPA4041s or Schoeps MK2 for mains for my surround bird. Often for just string quartets if the violin player has a harsher instrument the Schoeps help tame some of the harshness. Using Grace m802s for mic pres. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with any Schoeps. For the price they are stellar small diaphragm mics. thx. I'm good with mic preamps. the pips have an ein figure of around 133.
I do need a quieter mic option on very quiet sources.
They are very quiet. Id go for Omnis as I think Omnis are more useful all around and more flexible. But that's just me.
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Post by gouge on Mar 26, 2018 4:27:56 GMT -6
I like omni too.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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schoeps
Mar 26, 2018 10:32:43 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Mar 26, 2018 10:32:43 GMT -6
The thing to remember is unlike 90% of the Cardiods out there Schoeps were designed for distance not close up, they can work but that wasn’t the focus. Also remember cardiods really don’t give you that much isolation ( take a real good look at the polar plots) and then add in the linearity of a natural Omni and suddenly the Omni or the very pricy mult pattern capsule look like a great price to start with Schoeps!
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schoeps
Mar 26, 2018 13:59:31 GMT -6
Post by EmRR on Mar 26, 2018 13:59:31 GMT -6
FWIW: MKH 800 Twin and MKH 30 in dual mid side, about 3.5 feet out. In my crappy room. HPF for subsonics, no other EQ or compression. M pattern is cardioid on fingerpicked parts, wide cardioid on strummed. There's a 2dB volume automation between those two dynamic ranges. Hiss/hash is the 1940's tube pre's they are running through. 2nd fret capo, don't recall what guitar, but very lightly played. dual mid side MKH sample
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ericn
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schoeps
Mar 26, 2018 14:22:04 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Mar 26, 2018 14:22:04 GMT -6
FWIW: MKH 800 Twin and MKH 30 in dual mid side, about 3.5 feet out. In my crappy room. HPF for subsonics, no other EQ or compression. M pattern is cardioid on fingerpicked parts, wide cardioid on strummed. There's a 2dB volume automation between those two dynamic ranges. Hiss/hash is the 1940's tube pre's they are running through. 2nd fret capo, don't recall what guitar, but very lightly played. dual mid side MKH sampleIt is funny how the Senn RF bias mics a slightly different take on what Schoeps dose get slagged or forgotten, yet the top acoustic remote guys all use them , I think it has a lot to do with what Senn did to the affordable Neumann and Senn SDC’s!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 26, 2018 14:33:03 GMT -6
Like I said earlier, I haven't used any Schoeps myself. I know these MKH are giving the greatest level of inner detail I've ever gotten out of acoustic guitars and cymbals. I haven't had opportunity to use them on much else yet. The KM140's I let go of recently had a slightly winning midrange quality, but not the detail, nor the highs, nor the lows. That winning midrange was probably just that; a lot of midrange! They managed to seem bright/harsh and duller all at the same time.
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 26, 2018 14:48:11 GMT -6
I've only heard the MKH800 at the symphony I started at. Used them for spots on some woodwinds for a record. was mostly a setup guy then so never got to really experience their sound. I know usually though we used the schoeps for spots but repurposed them for something else.
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