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Post by mrholmes on Mar 19, 2018 8:28:38 GMT -6
RGOs
I tend to mix on the dark side, not adding much top end on single tracks. If I try I most often dont like it.
I add top end later on the mixbus and I love it this way. The top end sounds to me more natural this way compared to fighting it on single tracks.
Is anything wrong with this method? Adding top end very late in the mix on the 2 bus?
Cheers Holmes
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 19, 2018 8:30:22 GMT -6
Nah. Just depends on the quality of the EQ.
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Post by matt on Mar 19, 2018 9:24:48 GMT -6
Adding top end very late in the mix on the 2 bus? I add EQ late too. But only when bouncing files out of Pro Tools - the pre-mastered two-track has no EQ or other effects on it. However, I mix through a two-bus effects chain that includes a compressor (UAD Shadow Hills Mastering) and limiter (DMG Limitless) but not an EQ. Lately I've been using Ozone to add some mid-range, 600-2K, 1-2 db, and cut below 35 hz. I have not had to add top end recently. For some reason my mixes end up sounding a little scooped, probably due to the acoustics of my (family) room.
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Post by svart on Mar 19, 2018 9:28:42 GMT -6
That's no different than a mastering engineer adding top end to your mix.
Personally I don't EQ the master bus and I try to get things where I like it before, but I don't see anything wrong with doing it later either.
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Post by christopher on Mar 19, 2018 9:51:18 GMT -6
RGOs I tend to mix on the dark side, not adding much top end on single tracks. If I try I most often dont like it. I add top end later on the mixbus and I love it this way. The top end sounds to me more natural this way compared to fighting it on single tracks. Is anything wrong with this method? Adding top end very late in the mix on the 2 bus? Cheers Holmes I like this as well. It's not ideal but it saves my ears from being shredded while I work long hours. Then at the end.. 'oh yeah, I can crank the highs'.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 19, 2018 11:07:55 GMT -6
Can be especially nice to open the top back up a bit after bus compression.
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Post by stormymondays on Mar 19, 2018 12:19:59 GMT -6
I think the Clariphonic was designed especially for that application. I really like the plugin and was tempted to get the hardware, but I'm leaving the "dark side" and adding more top end to my tracks lately...
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Post by nick8801 on Mar 19, 2018 16:13:09 GMT -6
I prefer eq’ing the 2 buss as opposed to individual tracks. I’ll eq tracks to correct problems, but I generally try to get it right going into the computer. I have a Neve 8803eq that doesn’t get a lot of love on the forums, but it’s super versatile, and it adds a nice touch to the mix buss.
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Post by M57 on Mar 19, 2018 17:09:40 GMT -6
Can be especially nice to open the top back up a bit after bus compression. I've found that there's something about a little sculpting of the whole that is quite different (and musical in its own way) than getting the parts to play nice together before it all gets to the 2.
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Post by joseph on Mar 19, 2018 19:11:42 GMT -6
I almost always use a master bus compressor, and think it's pretty essential to eq afterward, so it has to be on master.
I tend to mix pretty dark though.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 19, 2018 22:03:39 GMT -6
I've been known to add a smidge of mid-highs on the 2 buss, but the key is the EQs used, which are a pair of Altec/Langevin 7-band passives. They have the almost magical ability to adjust the frequency response without "sounding EQ'ed" - at all. Since they're dead passive they do require makeup gain - around 16 dB, which is currently provided by an A-Designs KGB -2 two channel preamp.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 20, 2018 10:34:08 GMT -6
I think the Clariphonic was designed especially for that application. I really like the plugin and was tempted to get the hardware, but I'm leaving the "dark side" and adding more top end to my tracks lately... I was going to say something super similar regarding the Clariphonic. For those of us who tend to mix dark and need to add brightness at the end, Clariphonic seems to be a lot of people's choice. Some cats are using hardware. Some are sticking with the software. I'm using software because, well, a lot of reasons. It's an EQ with three internal parallel paths. The controls and labeling gives you some vague idea of what it's doing and how gently it's doing it - but gives you knobs to control how much. It's one of those "always sounds good" plugins. My experience is that I turn it up until I like it. Then cut it in half. That idea - use half as much as you think you should - I later found out is mentioned in their manual and some of their marketing materials. It's also great on vocals tracked on a ribbon mic and for opening up close mic'd electric guitars. A question I have for a everyone who EQs their master bus: Are you guys high passing on the master bus? How high? Before all the processing or afterwards? What about when you send to mastering, are you pulling that off before you send it? I've heard of guys who always just turn their 6db/octave 20hz hpf on and some cats who roll an 18db/octave hpf the way up to 40hz on almost every project. What are you tending towards? Are you using tape in your process (since it kind of does a little high pass filtering for you)? I have a million other questions about what you're all doing with hpf/lpf...but I'll stop there for now!
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 20, 2018 11:20:39 GMT -6
I think the Clariphonic was designed especially for that application. I really like the plugin and was tempted to get the hardware, but I'm leaving the "dark side" and adding more top end to my tracks lately... I was going to say something super similar regarding the Clariphonic. For those of us who tend to mix dark and need to add brightness at the end, Clariphonic seems to be a lot of people's choice. Some cats are using hardware. Some are sticking with the software. I'm using software because, well, a lot of reasons. It's an EQ with three internal parallel paths. The controls and labeling gives you some vague idea of what it's doing and how gently it's doing it - but gives you knobs to control how much. It's one of those "always sounds good" plugins. My experience is that I turn it up until I like it. Then cut it in half. That idea - use half as much as you think you should - I later found out is mentioned in their manual and some of their marketing materials. It's also great on vocals tracked on a ribbon mic and for opening up close mic'd electric guitars. A question I have for a everyone who EQs their master bus: Are you guys high passing on the master bus? How high? Before all the processing or afterwards? What about when you send to mastering, are you pulling that off before you send it? I've heard of guys who always just turn their 6db/octave 20hz hpf on and some cats who roll an 18db/octave hpf the way up to 40hz on almost every project. What are you tending towards? Are you using tape in your process (since it kind of does a little high pass filtering for you)? I have a million other questions about what you're all doing with hpf/lpf...but I'll stop there for now! I never use high pass filters unless a source has a really bad LF noise problem. If there's a subsonics problem on the mix I figurer my ME is better equipped to deal with it than I. The thing about HPFs is that most of them have audible effect above the speced cutoff frequency.
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Post by mikec on Mar 20, 2018 13:12:41 GMT -6
I find the EQ in my Silver Bullet works great for this and use it on just about every mix.
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Post by M57 on Mar 20, 2018 13:57:17 GMT -6
I find the EQ in my Silver Bullet works great for this and use it on just about every mix. Damn, I want a SB.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 20, 2018 14:00:47 GMT -6
I was going to say something super similar regarding the Clariphonic. For those of us who tend to mix dark and need to add brightness at the end, Clariphonic seems to be a lot of people's choice. Some cats are using hardware. Some are sticking with the software. I'm using software because, well, a lot of reasons. It's an EQ with three internal parallel paths. The controls and labeling gives you some vague idea of what it's doing and how gently it's doing it - but gives you knobs to control how much. It's one of those "always sounds good" plugins. My experience is that I turn it up until I like it. Then cut it in half. That idea - use half as much as you think you should - I later found out is mentioned in their manual and some of their marketing materials. It's also great on vocals tracked on a ribbon mic and for opening up close mic'd electric guitars. A question I have for a everyone who EQs their master bus: Are you guys high passing on the master bus? How high? Before all the processing or afterwards? What about when you send to mastering, are you pulling that off before you send it? I've heard of guys who always just turn their 6db/octave 20hz hpf on and some cats who roll an 18db/octave hpf the way up to 40hz on almost every project. What are you tending towards? Are you using tape in your process (since it kind of does a little high pass filtering for you)? I have a million other questions about what you're all doing with hpf/lpf...but I'll stop there for now! I never use high pass filters unless a source has a really bad LF noise problem. If there's a subsonics problem on the mix I figurer my ME is better equipped to deal with it than I. The thing about HPFs is that most of them have audible effect above the speced cutoff frequency. I agree with you 100% on that first part. When the project can afford outside mastering (from someone I trust - sometimes that's outside my influence), I definitely let them handle that. They're likely to do a much better job of it with a super well-treated room and mastering-grade monitors. I can't remember, do you use tape in your workflow? Are you using hpf on your individual tracks? Like I said...I have a million questions! I think I remember some sort of random spec thrown out by a gear designer saying the hpf frequency is typically something like 3db or 6db below "flat." I have no idea. It's definitely an "ignore the numbers on the dial" thing for me!
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Post by dankin on Mar 20, 2018 14:15:41 GMT -6
For me, anything on the master buss stays, outside of limiting, thats being used to bump the ref up. Lately, I've been running through the UAD Atr-102 and the Massive Passive on most mix's in addition to whatever buss comp I'm using.
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Post by mikec on Mar 20, 2018 14:18:04 GMT -6
I find the EQ in my Silver Bullet works great for this and use it on just about every mix. Damn, I want a SB. I don't want to hijack this as a Silver Bullet thread but it really is an amazing box. Like others I've gotten caught up in the new 1073 clone fever, but when I stop and think about it, I would rather have a second Silver Bullet. The preamps in it are stellar and it has all the additional functionality. Now, if I could just make room in my rack for a second one.
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Post by stormymondays on Mar 20, 2018 15:31:11 GMT -6
When my mix is already cooking, I usually engage the Air switch in my Black Box HG-2, and A/B with references (Magic AB plugin is fantastic!). Most of the time it stays on!
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 20, 2018 21:48:24 GMT -6
I never use high pass filters unless a source has a really bad LF noise problem. If there's a subsonics problem on the mix I figurer my ME is better equipped to deal with it than I. The thing about HPFs is that most of them have audible effect above the speced cutoff frequency. I agree with you 100% on that first part. When the project can afford outside mastering (from someone I trust - sometimes that's outside my influence), I definitely let them handle that. They're likely to do a much better job of it with a super well-treated room and mastering-grade monitors. I can't remember, do you use tape in your workflow? Are you using hpf on your individual tracks? Like I said...I have a million questions! I think I remember some sort of random spec thrown out by a gear designer saying the hpf frequency is typically something like 3db or 6db below "flat." I have no idea. It's definitely an "ignore the numbers on the dial" thing for me! I prefer to use tape, although it gets expensive. Since I got new, modern converters I can get acceptable results without it but I still prefer what it does to the sound. I don't hipass nuttin' unless there's a problem with the signal or source. Yes HPFs are generally rated at the -3dB or -6dB point, depending on the slope, so they do cut into the bottom a bit more than one would think, based on the numbers. Putting hipass on everything is an internet meme, I don't think that any of the old guys I've known did that stuff. Something else to remember is that if you're going to Vinyl it's gonna be hipassed by the vinyl ME. It has to be.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 20, 2018 21:49:27 GMT -6
I don't want to hijack this as a Silver Bullet thread but it really is an amazing box. Like others I've gotten caught up in the new 1073 clone fever, but when I stop and think about it, I would rather have a second Silver Bullet. The preamps in it are stellar and it has all the additional functionality. Now, if I could just make room in my rack for a second one. Get another rack.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 20, 2018 21:55:25 GMT -6
I mentioned my old Altec/Langevin EQs - those EQs posess the very rare characteristic that the don't mess with my chronic sibilance problem - they can lift the high end on the mix without increasing sibilance at all.
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Post by adamjbrass on Mar 21, 2018 5:41:04 GMT -6
john, HPF is a crtical move for lots of people. myself included. Maybe you don't have a ton of low end junk to deal with, in the music you work with..but Ive noticed how helpful it is MOST of the time. The old guys didnt have plug ins that let you tweak the slope and center point
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Post by javamad on Mar 21, 2018 7:09:51 GMT -6
When I mix (hybrid) I like to have an EQ on the 2-bus to help give an overall sheen. I currently use a Mini Massive but would really like to get s Curve Bender when budget allows.
At mix start I like to set up drums, bass and vocal and right then set a small air boost and a small 50-90 boost on the low end. Then I mix into that. I would normally have a Stam SA4000 just barrly moving the needle.
Later on in the mix, and in particular after listening breaks I will tweak the 2-bus eq (I find that its easier to judge with fresh ears)
I definitely try to mix into it though from early on though.
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Post by swurveman on Mar 21, 2018 7:35:33 GMT -6
I usually mix with a Smart C2 compressor and a GML 8200 EQ on my mix bus. I've been doing a project with a band and we've been recording and mixing. We just completed recording a batch of new songs and I mixed it without both the compressor or EQ. I added a plugin compressor and no EQ on the mix bus after the mix. I got a call from the head of the band telling me there was no excitement in the mix. I put the 8200 on the mix and that was it. What he called "excitement" was back. My typical setup is a LPF at 30, a bit of bell cut around 240, a bit of bell boost at 1.5 Khz and a bit of shelf boost around 13-14 Khz. I will vary this at the end if I think a boost or cut here or there would improve the mix more.
FWIW I owned the Clariphonic, but found it limited except for the high end boost. I don't know what the frequencies of the EQ are for the Silver Bullet. The cool thing about the 8200 is that beyond its mix bus duties, it can really sculpt sounds due to it's two shelve and three bell bands. Of all my gear, the 8200 is the most useful.
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