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Post by guitfiddler on Feb 14, 2018 18:39:16 GMT -6
While I would have loved using a Symphony, my next album's being released Feb 21st, and it was all done with the Apollo, with the exception of a couple of drum tracks. I think this sounds OK.. https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/all-again-aria-4-less-vol-24bit-aria-master-mixtype-aGood Job Martin...Nice song, and good job recording and mixing! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 14, 2018 20:43:37 GMT -6
Well thank you sir!
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Post by donr on Feb 14, 2018 21:16:50 GMT -6
At NAMM 2018, UAD had a four station audio comparo with hardware and their emulations. You could a or b each time, knowing which was hardware and which was UAD, then listen to c at each station to guess if c was the UAD or the hardware. I got 3 out of 4 right. I always picked hardware if I thought the audio had more depth, and UAD if it sounded a little less round. I was wrong once. It was close tho. They had 1073, LA-2A, Distressor and I forget the fourth. Probably the one I guessed wrong. They weren't showing the Helios.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 14, 2018 21:51:49 GMT -6
I keep wondering when UAD will get creative again and start making new products with new designs. I think classic plug-in emulations is a limited market in the long run. They have the clout to bring new things to market.
Certainly they can go beyond strict emulations of plug-ins. For instance certain emulations work so hard to imitate the originals, they even emulate things like API's awkward dials. Why not offer a second GUI, one original, one modernized.
I wonder why did UAD leave Burl and Dangerous Music to create a whole new part of the market, when their 2192 was the basis for Burl's designs. They could do something like Heritage did with their new Elite preamps. I think it would be cool if you could get a UAD LA2A, 1176, LA3A for under $900.
I read many stories of how a very small business takes up the part of the market that's "too small or not profitable enough" for the big boys, only to grow up to challenge them head to head. It's like they don't see the thin ice right under their feet until it's too late.
Which classic records were done with the Helios? I've mainly heard of records made with Neve's, API's, and Trident's, but rarely Helios. I noticed in UAD' video one or two classics, but it goes by too fast.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 15, 2018 8:41:43 GMT -6
I keep wondering when UAD will get creative again and start making new products with new designs. I think classic plug-in emulations is a limited market in the long run. They have the clout to bring new things to market. Certainly they can go beyond strict emulations of plug-ins. For instance certain emulations work so hard to imitate the originals, they even emulate things like API's awkward dials. Why not offer a second GUI, one original, one modernized. I wonder why did UAD leave Burl and Dangerous Music to create a whole new part of the market, when their 2192 was the basis for Burl's designs. They could do something like Heritage did with their new Elite preamps. I think it would be cool if you could get a UAD LA2A, 1176, LA3A for under $900. I read many stories of how a very small business takes up the part of the market that's "too small or not profitable enough" for the big boys, only to grow up to challenge them head to head. It's like they don't see the thin ice right under their feet until it's too late. Which classic records were done with the Helios? I've mainly heard of records made with Neve's, API's, and Trident's, but rarely Helios. I noticed in UAD' video one or two classics, but it goes by too fast. UA is trying to hit a number. They want to make a certain amount of money for each product. When they rereleased the 1176 Classic, it went through several versions with Fink designing it. Each time they sent it back saying “hey this thing sounds great, can you figure out how to make it this good at half the cost?” ...and on and on. All of their newer products (hardware at least) are like this. The 610 that they have is a joke compared to what the originals do. As are the combo pack of pre and 1176 or 2a’s. People will seemingly buy anything with those numbers on them and not question the actual sound that comes out of them. As for the Helios sound, www.google.com/amp/s/www.mixonline.com/.amp/recording/tale-three-helios-424497 |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2018 8:48:10 GMT -6
At NAMM 2018, UAD had a four station audio comparo with hardware and their emulations. You could a or b each time, knowing which was hardware and which was UAD, then listen to c at each station to guess if c was the UAD or the hardware. I got 3 out of 4 right. I always picked hardware if I thought the audio had more depth, and UAD if it sounded a little less round. I was wrong once. It was close tho. They had 1073, LA-2A, Distressor and I forget the fourth. Probably the one I guessed wrong. They weren't showing the Helios. That's the way I felt about comparing Unison to real pres...but as far as EQ and Compression...not sure I can tell the difference. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 15, 2018 8:48:20 GMT -6
Led Zeppelin IV, that's the bottom line for me.
The thing about UAD emulations is that they are widely regarded as being one of the best, if not the very best, in the game. Having tried all the major brands I still think UA is leading the pack, and I'm sure they know this.
I also don't really see the point of UA trying to compete with Warm, Stam and whatever. That's not really the heritage of the brand. There's plenty enough of that already.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 8:49:16 GMT -6
Which classic records were done with the Helios? UA is trying to hit a number. They want to make a certain amount of money for each product. When they rereleased the 1176 Classic, it went through several versions with Fink designing it. Each time they sent it back saying “hey this thing sounds great, can you figure out how to make it this good at half the cost?” ...and on and on. All of their newer products (hardware at least) are like this. The 610 that they have is a joke compared to what the originals do. As are the combo pack of pre and 1176 or 2a’s. People will seemingly buy anything with those numbers on them and not question the actual sound that comes out of them. As for the Helios sound, www.google.com/amp/s/www.mixonline.com/.amp/recording/tale-three-helios-424497 |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2018 8:49:41 GMT -6
Certainly they can go beyond strict emulations of plug-ins. For instance certain emulations work so hard to imitate the originals, they even emulate things like API's awkward dials. |
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Post by jsteiger on Feb 15, 2018 8:51:53 GMT -6
Certainly they can go beyond strict emulations of plug-ins. For instance certain emulations work so hard to imitate the originals, they even emulate things like API's awkward dials.  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 15, 2018 8:55:16 GMT -6
Pushing the Helios combined with the midrange and top end EQ is like crack for dirty guitars. Perfect for rock and roll. Not that I do a lot of Rock...(wish I did) Anyway, I've mentioned before, my obsession isn't particularly rational...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2018 8:56:15 GMT -6
You're right monkeyxx, but that was my point, small companies grow up and eventually challenge the big guys, often winning the competition.
Look at Fender guitars in the 80's. Japanese knock-offs were 40-70% cheaper, and were actually better made. They tried suing, so the other guitar makers simply changed a small part to circumvent copyright law. Eventually, Fender started making a basic, better, best line, Guitars were made in the USA, Japan, Mexico, Indonesia and China. They took back the low end, and those other brands faded. Had they not responded to that market pressure, the other brands might now be considered better than Fender.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 15, 2018 9:04:46 GMT -6
You're right monkeyxx, but that was my point, small companies grow up and eventually challenge the big guys, often winning the competition. Look at Fender guitars in the 80's. Japanese knock-offs were 40-70% cheaper, and were actually better made. They tried suing, so the other guitar makers simply changed a small part to circumvent copyright law. Eventually, Fender started making a basic, better, best line, Guitars were made in the USA, Japan, Mexico, Indonesia and China. They took back the low end, and those other brands faded. Had they not responded to that market pressure, the other brands might now be considered better than Fender. That's a very interesting comparison the gear trend upheavals in the '80s. "Cheaper stuff that's just as good," seems to be the big new business model in the pro audio sector. I'm not sure if that's quite as drastic as what happened in the '80s, but I am quite curious how the High End market feels on the inside right now. I wouldn't know, I've never owned any high end gear or spoken to those people. Well I did own an API 3124+ for a year or two. When I watched the API factory tour, they said, "We're doing better than ever," last year. Business is booming, apparently. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2018 9:26:02 GMT -6
I'm not sure I'd easily believe statements like that. Malcom Toft of Trident fame has been behind a few brands that failed, and I'd bet he was doing better than ever at some point ;-)
That's an interesting observation about UAD's combo gear Jeremy.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 15, 2018 10:29:17 GMT -6
Hey Martin,
This is just a snippet of some of the records made using the Helios console that was in the Stones mobile.
Bad Company: ‘Run With the Pack’
Bad Company: ‘Straight Shooter’
Deep Purple: ‘Burn’
Deep Purple: ‘Machine Head’
Deep Purple: ‘Made in Europe’
Deep Purple: ‘Who Do We Think We Are’
Dire Straits: ‘Alchemy: Dire Straits Live’
Faces: ‘Long Player’
Fleetwood Mac: ‘Mystery to Me’
Gary Moore: ‘Over the Hills and Far Away’
Gary Moore: ‘Wild Frontier’
Iron Maiden: ‘Live After Death’
Iron Maiden: ‘No Prayer for the Dying’
Led Zeppelin: ‘Led Zeppelin III’
Led Zeppelin: Led Zeppelin IV’
Led Zeppelin: ‘Physical Graffiti’ (also with Ronnie Lane Mobile)
Nazareth: ‘Rampant’
Queen: ‘Live Magic’
Lou Reed: ‘Live in Italy’
Rolling Stones: ‘Sticky Fingers’
Rolling Stones: ‘Exile on Main St.’
Rolling Stones: ’Some Girls’
Santana: 'Moonflower'
Ten Years After: ‘Recorded Live’
Ten Years After: ‘Rock & Roll Music to the World’
Frank Zappa: ‘200 Motels’
Frank Zappa: ‘Tinseltown Rebellion’
And some made using Ronnie Lane's Mobile Airstream trailer, also with a Helios
Eric Clapton, Rainbow Concert (1973)
Rory Gallagher, Irish Tour '74 (1974)
The Who: Quadrophenia (1973) and
Rick Wakeman: Journey to the Centre of the Earth (live) (1974) and Lisztomania (1975)
Bad Company: Bad Company (1974) and Straight Shooter (1975)
Peter Frampton: Frampton (1974)
Billy Nicholls, Love Songs (1974)
Chilli Willi and the Red Hot Peppers: Bongos Over Balham (1974)
Mott the Hoople: Drive On (1975)
Andy Fraser Band: In Your Eyes (1975)
Led Zeppelin: Physical Graffiti (1975)
Barry Humphries, Dame Edna Everage: Housewife Superstar (1976).
Eric Burdon: Darkness Darkness (1980)
The Jackie Lynton Band: The Jackie Lynton Band (1980)
The records recording in RLM's mobile, sold over 500 million!
Not to mention all the records made in these studios.....
Island
Island Basing Street
The Manor Studio - Richard Branson
The Manor Mobile unit - Richard Branson
Townhouse Studio - Richard Branson
Rampart Studios - The Who
Olympic
Strawberry Studios
Helioscentric
Apple Studios - The Beatles had 2 consoles
Basing Street - had 2 Helios Consoles
Berwick Street Studios
Dawnbreaker Studios, Los Angeles, USA,
John Entwistle private studio
Funky Features, San Francisco, USA,
Hansa Tonstudio Berlin, W.Germany,
LaMaisonRouge,
Alvin Lee's private studio
Harry J.Records, Kingston, Jamaica,
Paul McCartney's private studio
Magritte Studios,
Steve Marriott's private studio
Steve Miller's private studio
Musicland, Munich,
Eric Clapton's private studio,
Leon Russell, private studio
10cc's Strawberry Studios,
Telemetropole, Montreal, Canada,
Topic Records,
Universal Sound,
Steve Winwood's private studio,
Ron Wood's private studio
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2018 12:04:55 GMT -6
Whew! Thanks nobtwiddler, that was a great read. Some of those records are benchmarks of mine. If I had to make a comment regarding the overall sound quality of so many of the records you listed, I'd say there's a certain energy in the high end that grabs your ears and sticks. The guitar sounds on the Stones and Who records jumped out at you, whether you listened on a good stereo or a transistor radio. But never were they too edgy, too thin, too anything, they were just alive with energy.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 16, 2018 8:39:15 GMT -6
Can any of you Apollo users post a take with straight Apollo pre and then with the helios in Unison?
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 16, 2018 8:59:28 GMT -6
I don't understand this unison thing?
I have the UAD Helios plug, but I need to purchase something else, specifically to use it as a pre-amp?
Is this the case?
I never used a plug in as a pre-amp before?
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Post by drsax on Feb 16, 2018 9:16:35 GMT -6
Can any of you Apollo users post a take with straight Apollo pre and then with the helios in Unison? I’m away from the studio until next week... if my schedule allows next week, I’d be happy to post a clip each way |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 16, 2018 9:21:28 GMT -6
I don't understand this unison thing? I have the UAD Helios plug, but I need to purchase something else, specifically to use it as a pre-amp? Is this the case? I never used a plug in as a pre-amp before? Supposedly, the Unison tech on the Apollos allow the impedance and non-linearities and harmonics to be in the path. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 16, 2018 9:31:59 GMT -6
I’m sick as a dog right now, but I’ll see what I can do sometime this weekend if someone doesn’t beat me to it.
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Post by drsax on Feb 16, 2018 10:06:52 GMT -6
I’m sick as a dog right now, but I’ll see what I can do sometime this weekend if someone doesn’t beat me to it. Hope you feel better soon Vincent |
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Post by keymod on Feb 16, 2018 11:36:26 GMT -6
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 16, 2018 12:07:25 GMT -6
soniccircus.com/product/helios-28-x-16-x-24-studio-console-vintage
Personally I HATE the color of that thing!
But that's just me.
In the meantime,
If I were ever inclined to spend the $$$ people are asking for an original Helios,
it better have the original "Lustraphone" transformers installed, or it's no deal.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 16, 2018 12:18:21 GMT -6
I’m sick as a dog right now, but I’ll see what I can do sometime this weekend if someone doesn’t beat me to it. Hope you feel better soon Vincent Thanks. I actually managed to sing a small set for a local senior group this morning. Luckily I can croon and sing opera. It meant I could kill some time crooning some easier tunes, then finally do a few more operatic songs to finish up. Not sure if this is allergies or a cold. Feels like allergies. Ugh. |
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