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Post by jeromemason on Feb 12, 2018 16:11:37 GMT -6
Take my freaking money......... Holy smokes that's one hell of a deal for a truly mastering grade and style A/D. You can clip these converters and make it so the DAW doesn't recognize it as clips..... That's some real deal stuff. Not only do you get that feature, but also a quality transformer output that I'd imagine is in parallel with the electronic output. Damn it, Dangerous is going to get my money at some point very soon. This is one box I've got to have. Anyone want a Lavry Black AD-10??? dangerousmusic.com/product/convert-ad-plus/ |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 12, 2018 16:26:55 GMT -6
I forgot to remind myself to never, ever, ever,,, watch DM product release promos !!
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Post by svart on Feb 12, 2018 16:36:13 GMT -6
There's so many of these types of things out there these days. One of the biggest reasons I've pretty much decided to bow out of the converter game.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 12, 2018 23:06:33 GMT -6
I don't know.... This one has some features you don't normally find on a run of the mill converter...... I know for myself, when I clip my Lavry to be able for that not to be "seen" by my DAW would be awesome, and I'd have to believe these days and they type of analog and digital creativity/design that Dangerous is putting out that this converter would sound extremely good when clipped. They are a mastering grade type, the people building and designing these are Mastering guys. If they've made a converter I can clip, inject some trannie on and hide the over's for under $5k I'd say they've set themselves apart from the pack. This one is selling at $2,500 or so..... They're going to for sure get my money on it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 12, 2018 23:23:21 GMT -6
DM does an interesting design job always and first class execution, not cheap but excellent value and you can buy their feature set with confidence!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 13, 2018 0:22:53 GMT -6
I don't know.... This one has some features you don't normally find on a run of the mill converter...... I know for myself, when I clip my Lavry to be able for that not to be "seen" by my DAW would be awesome, and I'd have to believe these days and they type of analog and digital creativity/design that Dangerous is putting out that this converter would sound extremely good when clipped. They are a mastering grade type, the people building and designing these are Mastering guys. If they've made a converter I can clip, inject some trannie on and hide the over's for under $5k I'd say they've set themselves apart from the pack. This one is selling at $2,500 or so..... They're going to for sure get my money on it. You can push into clipping with the Svartbox too. I ran some tests a while back with clipping the Svartbox and running cool into the Svartbox and adding a limiter after each to see the differences in mastering. |
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 13, 2018 0:46:45 GMT -6
Well you can clip any of them...... it's just how they sound when you do it. My Motu 16a sounded horrible when clipped, even the slightest bit. That actually caused me to go in and pull down the level on all my inputs and outputs so I could never clip that converter. My Lavry Black on the other hand, it sounds great when it's clipped. It adds something and also lets me get bit louder. Honestly I don't hear any distortion from my Lavry, but I know it's clipping. I have to attenuate that before it hits the DAW otherwise I get overs, so to be able to basically hide the overs and not attenuate is really attractive to me. And like I said, I'd have to believe the Dangerous gear sounds even better than my Lavry when it's clipped.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 13, 2018 1:21:00 GMT -6
In fact, I'm definitely going to take the plunge here. I just listed my Lavry Black AD-10 in the classifieds if anyone is looking for a great 2-buss converter. I've been totally happy with the Lavry, like I said you can do a lot of great things with it not just clipping the converter. They have some Emulations of Tube and Transformer inputs that can quickly make a mix have energy and warmth if you are in a pinch. Clipping those modes offers some extremely interesting sounds too!
But, I think it's time for me to step up my 2-buss converter and the Dangerous is honestly the only one I'd unload the Lavry for.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 13, 2018 3:36:50 GMT -6
I have to ask myself if there is something terrible wrong with my sound...if the answer is no I am good.
Second question is. Why in the world I like to clip converters???
In other words. If I would buy everything they send me newsletters for I would be constantly broke.
A Lavry is a great converter in my book I would not worry about conversion at all.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 13, 2018 6:38:01 GMT -6
Well you can clip any of them...... it's just how they sound when you do it. My Motu 16a sounded horrible when clipped, even the slightest bit. That actually caused me to go in and pull down the level on all my inputs and outputs so I could never clip that converter. My Lavry Black on the other hand, it sounds great when it's clipped. It adds something and also lets me get bit louder. Honestly I don't hear any distortion from my Lavry, but I know it's clipping. I have to attenuate that before it hits the DAW otherwise I get overs, so to be able to basically hide the overs and not attenuate is really attractive to me. And like I said, I'd have to believe the Dangerous gear sounds even better than my Lavry when it's clipped. Yeah, that's my point. You can clip the Svartbox, like you're discussing (shaving some transients and lowering the DR for a hotter sounding master) without it sounding like shit. I'm not doing converter clip tests if it sounds like digital overs when clipping it. |
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Post by svart on Feb 13, 2018 9:26:43 GMT -6
Well you can clip any of them...... it's just how they sound when you do it. My Motu 16a sounded horrible when clipped, even the slightest bit. That actually caused me to go in and pull down the level on all my inputs and outputs so I could never clip that converter. My Lavry Black on the other hand, it sounds great when it's clipped. It adds something and also lets me get bit louder. Honestly I don't hear any distortion from my Lavry, but I know it's clipping. I have to attenuate that before it hits the DAW otherwise I get overs, so to be able to basically hide the overs and not attenuate is really attractive to me. And like I said, I'd have to believe the Dangerous gear sounds even better than my Lavry when it's clipped. Yeah, that's my point. You can clip the Svartbox, like you're discussing (shaving some transients and lowering the DR for a hotter sounding master) without it sounding like shit. I'm not doing converter clip tests if it sounds like digital overs when clipping it. Yeah, I did some testing and I can "bend" the transients about 6dB before I start hearing the audible clipping. If I'm getting overs, I just knock down the digital stream level into whatever program I'm mixing into, then the program doesn't see it as overs. It sounds like the Dangerous just has an attenuator after the clipping stage, but before the A/D inputs. Interesting concept. |
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Post by matt on Feb 13, 2018 20:41:51 GMT -6
I'm confused. The video with Fab clearly shows Monitor ST connectivity but other product pictures don't. And the manual doesn't either. Odd.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 15, 2018 5:54:14 GMT -6
y'all forgot about Apogee's SoftLimit? How long has that been around?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2018 6:02:02 GMT -6
@nfc have wondered exactly how soft limit works: is it like a digital compressor that rounds and then hard limits but still clips the converters or allows them to saturate to their limits without distortion ?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 15, 2018 6:44:20 GMT -6
Introduced in 1992 through Apogee’s AD-500, soft limit helps prevent digital clipping while giving you that analog warmth that everyone loves. This superior analog design prevents the digital clipping that causes distortion by instantaneously rounding off transient peaks before they hit the analog-to-digital converter while giving it a more analog-like saturation. To put it simply, it stops the clipping before it gets to your AD converter. www.apogeedigital.com/blog/how-soft-limit-can-save-you |
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 15, 2018 16:01:10 GMT -6
This is something different..... It doesn't "do" anything to the actual audio..... it somehow hides in the data stream that there are over's present. Which means you can truly clip this as hard as you want, until you get the sound you want, hit a button and your DAW and every other DAC that will replay the material believes there are no over's present. It's quite different than soft limit.
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Post by guitfiddler on Feb 16, 2018 3:50:14 GMT -6
All I have to say is...Woah!
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 27, 2018 23:30:27 GMT -6
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Post by adamjbrass on Feb 28, 2018 10:18:50 GMT -6
I would think the OVFL function only omits the overages on the metering of the unit itself. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding it?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 28, 2018 17:27:50 GMT -6
no idea. you'd have to open up the unit and trace the circuit to see. the OVFL pin is on the Cirrus Logic A/D chip. I have no idea if Dangerous uses those chips.
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Post by svart on Mar 1, 2018 7:35:42 GMT -6
I would think the OVFL function only omits the overages on the metering of the unit itself. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding it? OVFL from converters is simply a status output. it goes high when the converter detects an overrange condition. It doesn't do anything else. It's up to the user to use that output for whatever they want to do. It's also not predictive in nature, so you'll still get a little clipping before the OVFL pin reacts. Wouldn't be useful for detecting and stopping clipping unless you had some kind of DSP buffering after. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Mar 1, 2018 22:25:21 GMT -6
y'all forgot about Apogee's SoftLimit? How long has that been around? I really liked the digi 192's soft clip.. same system most likely! Legit good. |
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 2, 2018 13:38:48 GMT -6
I need to invite the Dangerous guys to come in here and explain exactly what this is doing.
It's not doing anything at all to the audio when you engage that button, it's simply telling the host there are no overs..... how it does, I don't know, I just assumed that it was done in the data stream somehow. It's not soft clipping, in that when you press the button it's not telling the converter to do anything besides say "i'm not clipping" regardless if it is. That has to be in the communication from the converter to the host somehow.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Mar 2, 2018 15:14:15 GMT -6
I need to invite the Dangerous guys to come in here and explain exactly what this is doing. It's not doing anything at all to the audio when you engage that button, it's simply telling the host there are no overs..... how it does, I don't know, I just assumed that it was done in the data stream somehow. It's not soft clipping, in that when you press the button it's not telling the converter to do anything besides say "i'm not clipping" regardless if it is. That has to be in the communication from the converter to the host somehow. probably a software-based limiter built into the audio driver that is delivering PCM samples to the operating system. think about it. the Host doesn't have custom handlers for every audio device out there. they just open the device via the Operating System-provided API, and process the audio as 24 or 32bit PCM data. maybe they upsample it to 48 or 64bit before sending it to the desired hardware output. So, there's absolutely no way for their box to "tell the host there are no overs". If that were the case, EVERY daw developer would have released a software update when this converter was released, and there would be comments in the release notes saying "added support for Dangerous Music Convert AD+" |
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 2, 2018 20:45:37 GMT -6
This was Dangerous's answer to when I asked how this was accomplished and if they would elaborate or come on here to explain.....
"Unfortunately I can't, as that gives away the secret. The key is it's tricking the DAW software. No limiting, not even digitally."
So talk amongst "ya'selves"
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