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Post by gouge on Jan 14, 2018 0:36:50 GMT -6
how good is this thing. this is the type of plug i want. pushing what digital can do to the limits.
i'm new with it. recently used it on some guitars that were stacked and bunching up in the mids and it made a very good difference. i used it as recommended.
did the mix to as good as i could then applied the plug.
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Post by matt on Jan 14, 2018 2:08:04 GMT -6
I'm using it too, along with Ozone, Tonal Control, and Visual Mixer. I like it all so far. Neutron has me changing my Pro Tools mix template, and Visual Mixer has me thinking about gain staging from a fresh perspective. I think izotope will be releasing a full-on DAW at some point. With their philosophy of deep integration, it makes sense for them to build a complete mixing platform.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 14, 2018 9:04:38 GMT -6
I’ve been caught up with Ozone 8 and it has really changed a lot of what I do. Didn’t really get into Neutron that much - is it more of a channel version of Ozone? Just felt like they overlapped a bit.
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Post by matt on Jan 14, 2018 10:27:48 GMT -6
is it more of a channel version of Ozone? Just felt like they overlapped a bit. Neutron is izotope's idea of the ultimate, insanely configurable channel strip. Once I get used to it and understand all it can do, I see it streamlining my workflow. Plus every Neutron instance interacts with Visual Mixer for pan and level. Both ways. So you can control pan and level of all Neutrons from Visual Mixer. As long as there is good gain structure (-18db = 0VU for me, with track inputs averaging 0VU whenever possible), I get a reasonably accurate representation of relative levels across a mix. At least I think I am - I hear it that way. Yes, I know, proper gain is only good engineering practice, but it has a way of getting away from me. The only thing is that I had to re-work my session template a bit to get stereo instances on all tracks where Neutron is used. izotope's Ozone and Neutron go against my long-held belief that signal processing is best accomplished by using different brands of plugins on a mix. I tested this article of faith by bypassing all of the compression and eq (Fabfilter C2 and Q2, various UAD, Waves) on a session's tracks and then processed everything with lots of Neutrons using the same eq curves, compression settings, etc. No one in my band could tell the difference. I thought I could hear a minuscule change but that is inevitable given the impossibility of exactly translating every parameter. The net difference was completely inconsequential to the quality of the overall mix. In other words, I have become an izotope man. For a little bit, anyway.
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Post by matt on Jan 14, 2018 10:33:33 GMT -6
One caveat: I like DMG Limitless more than Ozone's limiter. I just think it is more transparent at more aggressive gain reduction levels.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 14, 2018 12:14:13 GMT -6
I've been toying with it. It is pretty impressive.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 14, 2018 18:12:45 GMT -6
I think Neutron is the kind of thing where you could do a whole mix, and not use any other plugins at all (except maybe delay and reverb FX or something).
In fact, I did this the other day, and was sort of surprised how many different sounds I could get out of a single plugin, just by tweaking the different sections.
Super deep. Anyway Tonal Balance Control or whatever it's called is really cool too. It seems like a great way to "reference" mixes against your own, without having to do it the old fashioned way. Keeps me from getting too far out of control with bass boosts or treble boosts or whatever. I like it.
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Post by gouge on Jan 14, 2018 18:37:18 GMT -6
So far I've only used neutron to automatically improve the mix. Whilst its great its a channel strip I think the power is the ai aspect.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 14, 2018 18:42:56 GMT -6
I haven't had much luck with the Izotope AI stuff. I usually turn off most of everything that is "suggested." IMO
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 15, 2018 0:16:29 GMT -6
I know this is about Neutron, and I do have a question on it, but, regarding Ozone, does the standard version allow you to use a reference track that it can analyze and then apply eq/dynamics/loudness/excitement to the mix you're working on? I am demo'ing the advanced version, so it has it obviously, but trying to read through the differences I couldn't figure out if the standard version of Ozone has that same capacity. IMO that is truly an amazing and groundbreaking feature that could speed up me getting my ref's out the door without having to sit and manually match references. Also I can very much imagine getting my mix balanced like I want it and then using that feature in Ozone to gently do some matching. That's a great feature.
On Neutron, are you finding this making the ability to create depth more easily? I need to pull it up and try it out and see what it's about, but I'm in the camp of being done with paying for emulations of analog gear and focusing more on companies using technology to better improve my game. I really hope more companies put their focus in their direction. If you look back into history, the Beatles is a good example, yes it was analog they were pioneering new technologies on, but it was because it was all they had. Using multi-track tape and bouncing stems and then doing ore layering etc. That's what I'm talking about with the companies that have digital at their disposal. I think once the programmers get passed trying to emulate 60 year old gear and focusing on breaking the glass ceiling in making music better, that's exactly what we'll have, possibly another SGT Peppers moment where new technology made music being created giving the listeners their own moments in awe. I'm pretty excited for the future of digital, I think it's going to take us into another realm of how music is heard, that's just awesome, Izotope is definitely moving in that direction and I can't wait to see what they start putting out.
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Post by gouge on Jan 15, 2018 4:45:59 GMT -6
i've not used ozone.
i've got neutron elements and neutrino. the way i use them is i mix the song and then put neutron / neutrino on the track once mixed.
i don't use exactly what neutrino suggests. for eg sometimes i use the bass setting on vocals. but i think track assistant handles the mids and hi end very well. overall the plug improves clarity and separation.
i can see myself getting the full version at some point so i can use the masking function too.
from what i read on the izotope site some attention needs to be given to gain stage prior to the neutron plug. it has a limiter on the output that can clip if the signal at the input is too loud.
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Post by matt on Jan 15, 2018 14:52:07 GMT -6
i don't use exactly what neutrino suggests from what i read on the izotope site some attention needs to be given to gain stage I use the Assistant to see what eq moves it suggests. It nearly always calls for compression, and sometimes two! And the exciter is always activated. But I always modify the initial settings or bypass modules I find unnecessary. As for gain staging, I'll echo my earlier comment - it seems to me, if you want to use Visual Mixer, setting the end-to-end gain becomes critical so actual relative level is represented in the Mixer GUI. Plus, it is good (essential?) engineering practice.
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Post by gouge on Jan 15, 2018 15:21:31 GMT -6
i don't use exactly what neutrino suggests from what i read on the izotope site some attention needs to be given to gain stage I use the Assistant to see what eq moves it suggests. It nearly always calls for compression, and sometimes two! And the exciter is always activated. But I always modify the initial settings or bypass modules I find unnecessary. As for gain staging, I'll echo my earlier comment - it seems to me, if you want to use Visual Mixer, setting the end-to-end gain becomes critical so actual relative level is represented in the Mixer GUI. Plus, it is good (essential?) engineering practice. Hi matt, Are you using comp and eq before neutron
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Post by matt on Jan 15, 2018 15:32:58 GMT -6
I'm in the camp of being done with paying for emulations of analog gear and focusing more on companies using technology to better improve my game isotope seem to be heading this way, for sure. They include "analog" emulations but IMO their emphasis is on shifting the paradigm away from plugins based on classic hardware to a new modality where all plugin instances are webbed together on a mix and sharing data. To be fair, we have seen this concept before at a basic level with Waves NLS and recent Brainworks channel strips (and I'm sure there's others out there, not to mention good old-fashioned side-chaining), but not to this level. And I get the feeling that they are just getting started with the whole interactivity thing. I find that their approach to GUI design is FabFilter-esque, which I love. I have suddenly realized that I don't need a pretty rendering of a piece of analog hardware - I just need the plugin to perform as advertised. I can definitely say that I will be using Visual Mixer on every mix to some degree. Right now I have it set up on my current mixes to represent drums as a group, and the ability to quickly adjust level and pan from one interface is killer. Some may consider VM to be fluff and not any better than mouse/control surface manipulation of the digital equivalent of an analog console, but I don't have a preference due mostly to lack of experience, and I am not married to the Pro Tools Mix window. It suddenly looks sooo 20th Century. Throw in Tonal Balance Control and it's capability, and I think izotope has produced a winner. N2/O2 Advanced is helping me mix better - so say my bandmates - and that's what counts.
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Post by matt on Jan 15, 2018 15:44:22 GMT -6
I use the Assistant to see what eq moves it suggests Hi matt, Are you using comp and eq before neutron I am using FabFilter Q2 and Waves RVox before N2 on existing mixes because I purchased N2/O2 Advanced mid-mix on five songs currently in Production. I'm going to leave them inline mostly so I don't have to redo mixes undergoing final approval by my band. But I am going to try using N2 and only N2 as a channel strip on my next scratch mix. If it works well - and I think it will - I will be very happy. And bummed. Happy because I'll be able to produce a good mix using izotope's system, and bummed because I will have a crapload of plugins on the sideline.
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Post by gouge on Jan 17, 2018 14:39:51 GMT -6
i got an email today from izotope about upgrade paths.
so it seems for a smallish cost i can upgrade from my neutron elements to either ozone 8 standard or neutron standard.
what to do? neutron 8 gets me more neutron features but ozone gets me mastering stuff which i will use for my test mixes. i'm thinking i should combine ozone 8 and neutron elements.
has anyone got both that understands the differences clearly.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 17, 2018 15:00:07 GMT -6
For some reason, I've never really bonded with Ozone or found it necessary. Usually prefer seperate processors on my masters. I guess I don't like to do too much at that stage. Ozone tempts me to go too far.
Neutron, on the other hand, seems immediately more useful to me. I could replace a whole strip of processors with one plugin.
Just my 2 cents of course.
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Post by gouge on Jan 17, 2018 15:14:03 GMT -6
Yeah I'm talking myself off the ledge.
I reckon I should just keep using neutron elements and get a solid eq.
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Post by matt on Jan 17, 2018 17:34:56 GMT -6
Right now I'm using Ozone's EQ and dynamic EQ; Maximizer is off. Not sure about the Exciter, Spectral Shaper, or other modules yet. Might try some Exciter on bass guitar. Makes me think of an old Judas Priest song.
As I've mentioned, DMG Limitless happens to be my limiter of choice these days.
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Post by matt on Jan 18, 2018 8:48:03 GMT -6
Well now, the plot thickens. I tried Ozone's Master Assistant last night using a reference track, Supremacy by Muse off their The 2nd Law record. The results are very interesting, even possibly usable with very little change. I am impressed by the Maximizer, and how Master Assistant set the various parameters. It seems to be able to detect the level of limiting in the reference track - and Muse is absolutely limited - and apply it sensibly. The suggested EQ settings sounded fairly correct, too. Going to have another listen today with fresh ears to see if my alcohol-limited conclusion from last night is still valid.
I think that The 2nd Law is an example of a limited record that still sounds reasonably good. It is loud, that's for sure! I am using the CD version, which dr.loudness-war.info says is heavily limited with an average DR of 5. I might try the HD Tracks version, which is listed as DR 9.
I don't know how you pro mixers do it for 8 hours+. After half that time, by ears are blown and my ability to judge vaporizes. I mix at 80-85db, according to my meter, so I am not rocking it too hard. Most of the time, anyway. But when ear fatigue hits, the music loses all definition frequency-wise. Not cool.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 18, 2018 9:50:28 GMT -6
I can't mix for more than about 3 or 4 hours at a time. I'm no pro, though, like you said.
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Post by gouge on Jan 18, 2018 15:35:50 GMT -6
Well now, the plot thickens. I tried Ozone's Master Assistant last night using a reference track, Supremacy by Muse off their The 2nd Law record. The results are very interesting, even possibly usable with very little change. I am impressed by the Maximizer, and how Master Assistant set the various parameters. It seems to be able to detect the level of limiting in the reference track - and Muse is absolutely limited - and apply it sensibly. The suggested EQ settings sounded fairly correct, too. Going to have another listen today with fresh ears to see if my alcohol-limited conclusion from last night is still valid. I think that The 2nd Law is an example of a limited record that still sounds reasonably good. It is loud, that's for sure! I am using the CD version, which dr.loudness-war.info says is heavily limited with an average DR of 5. I might try the HD Tracks version, which is listed as DR 9. I don't know how you pro mixers do it for 8 hours+. After half that time, by ears are blown and my ability to judge vaporizes. I mix at 80-85db, according to my meter, so I am not rocking it too hard. Most of the time, anyway. But when ear fatigue hits, the music loses all definition frequency-wise. Not cool. So now that I'm back on the ledge.... From reading the izotope marketting stuff it seems if you master while you mix that neutron and ozone talk to each other. Could be stem or track level. This is where I'm keen to go.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 18, 2018 15:37:36 GMT -6
Man for someone to buy the whole Izotope suite I think is almost more expensive than a DAW... It does seem to be that good, though.
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Post by gouge on Jan 18, 2018 15:40:11 GMT -6
Man for someone to buy the whole Izotope suite I think is almost more expensive than a DAW... It does seem to be that good, though. I can get neutron elements and ozone standard for $129 usd. at the moment.
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Post by matt on Jan 18, 2018 17:53:13 GMT -6
Well now, the plot thickens. So now that I'm back on the ledge.... From reading the izotope marketing stuff it seems if you master while you mix that neutron and ozone talk to each other. Could be stem or track level. This is where I'm keen to go. I'm not sure how deep the algorithmic integration is between N2 and O8. But I can say this: - Neutron shares two-way volume and pan (requires a stereo N2 instance) with Visual Mixer - Tonal Balance Control can show the EQ section of any Ozone or Neutron instance in it's hideable bottom pane. Thusly set up, EQ moves in TBC are reflected in the "in focus" N2 or O8 instance. And all the while listening, and watching the TBC GUI for whether the playback is "in the groove" (or is it ballpark?) as far as frequency response goes relative to a reference track - or tracks. Perhaps even your own tracks. Some people might find this feature frivolous - aren't you using your ears? - but I find it cool. My tin ears always under-hear 100hz and down, so it's good to have an alternate method of objective confirmation. TBC is somewhat like a 21st century spectrum analyzer. Sort of. - The reference song tool in O8 is very nice. Point O8 at a song file, and get any one of a number of looped sections of the reference song to bounce to with one click. It's very slick. One caveat: I am talking about some features that may exist only in N2/O8 Advanced. So, please confirm before buying a different bundle.
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