|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 30, 2017 18:12:26 GMT -6
Hey guys - what are your favorite tube Mic pres. I’ve used many of the common contenders over the years in other studios but I’m thinking about expanding my selection here in my studio. I’ve got a bunch of great solid state pres, neve types, api types, Daking, and many others etc... so I’m covered there. On the tube side - I’ve got an early ADL600 here which sounds killer for a cleaner euphoric sound, and it has been problem free, but I’m starting to plan to add one or two more tube pres. I really dig my REDD Mic with built in REDD pre, but also am curious about that Sound with my other mics. I’m specifically curious about REDD47 and V72/76 experiences - but am open to anything that’s super sweet - Coil Audio, Sonic Farms Creamer and Berliner, LaChappell, Retro OP-6 Clone, RCA OP-6, or any others that sound killer. bluegrassdan, where does your pre fall soundwise amongst some of the more popular goto tube pres out there? And for those who have used both old and new designs, are the vintage units much more desirable sonically than the newer high end stuff? (Retro, Chandler, Mercury, Coil, Sonic Farms) I tend to favor Designs that have tunes that are more common and don’t require a kidney to pay for. I’ve got lots of great tube gear here - just not many tube pres. I can and will audition some units in my studio but I just thought it would be nice to get some thoughts from you guys on this. |
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 30, 2017 19:09:37 GMT -6
V76 is fantastic, and just slightly more hifi sounding to me than the V72. However, for critical recording where something screwing up can really ruin a track, I stay away from even the most healthy v76 like my life depends on it. The gain pots on them are seriously over engineered German specimens and unfortunately (the 4 we have) didnt stand the test of time.
The 72’s have a fixed gain which works great for most things, and they sound great.
We’ve got some RCA tune pres that are awesome as well, forget the mode number I’ll take a look when I get a chance.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Dec 30, 2017 19:21:13 GMT -6
You can get a 4 channel Sebatron for $1000 on eBay, and they sound killer. Drop in some NOS mullards or GE's, like I did, and it's even better. They're kinda under the radar, and I hope they stay that way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 20:12:42 GMT -6
V76 is fantastic, and just slightly more hifi sounding to me than the V72. However, for critical recording where something screwing up can really ruin a track, I stay away from even the most healthy v76 like my life depends on it. The gain pots on them are seriously over engineered German specimens and unfortunately (the 4 we have) didnt stand the test of time. The 72’s have a fixed gain which works great for most things, and they sound great. We’ve got some RCA tune pres that are awesome as well, forget the mode number I’ll take a look when I get a chance. I totally agree...76's can have a big sheen - it's a great sheen - but really not for everything. I've never owned a V72, but I think I'd rather have that in comparison. I thought the REDD was very similar to the V76's I've heard. At least kind of the same game. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 20:16:26 GMT -6
You can get a 4 channel Sebatron for $1000 on eBay, and they sound killer. Drop in some NOS mullards or GE's, like I did, and it's even better. They're kinda under the radar, and I hope they stay that way. Where you see that? |
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Dec 30, 2017 20:18:49 GMT -6
V76 is fantastic, and just slightly more hifi sounding to me than the V72. However, for critical recording where something screwing up can really ruin a track, I stay away from even the most healthy v76 like my life depends on it. The gain pots on them are seriously over engineered German specimens and unfortunately (the 4 we have) didnt stand the test of time. The 72’s have a fixed gain which works great for most things, and they sound great. We’ve got some RCA tune pres that are awesome as well, forget the mode number I’ll take a look when I get a chance. My Tab-funkenwerk V72S has a chunky variable gain switch. I think I read somewhere that Oliver had designed this to attenuate and not affect tone? Not too sure. Sounds awesome, though. I just stuffed it with NOS glass courtesy of Bowie. Also, I want to check out the Coil Audio stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Dec 30, 2017 20:23:48 GMT -6
You can get a 4 channel Sebatron for $1000 on eBay, and they sound killer. Drop in some NOS mullards or GE's, like I did, and it's even better. They're kinda under the radar, and I hope they stay that way. Dude, the Sebatron stuff is total sleeper gear. Great, great stuff. I've got the 4 channel tube pre and I find it versatile and full of tone. You can drive it hard for crunch, or back it off with the pads for clean. It's got top and bottom EQ options as well. Stellar stuff. Their optical compressor is sweet, too. You can find them used for a good price. I think I got my 4 channel tube pre for $1200. |
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 30, 2017 21:03:36 GMT -6
V76 is fantastic, and just slightly more hifi sounding to me than the V72. However, for critical recording where something screwing up can really ruin a track, I stay away from even the most healthy v76 like my life depends on it. The gain pots on them are seriously over engineered German specimens and unfortunately (the 4 we have) didnt stand the test of time. The 72’s have a fixed gain which works great for most things, and they sound great. We’ve got some RCA tune pres that are awesome as well, forget the mode number I’ll take a look when I get a chance. My Tab-funkenwerk V72S has a chunky variable gain switch. I think I read somewhere that Oliver had designed this to attenuate and not affect tone? Not too sure. Sounds awesome, though. I just stuffed it with NOS glass courtesy of Bowie. Also, I want to check out the Coil Audio stuff. I’d assume your gain is just an output trim. That’s how ours are set up. The original design is set at something like 34dB (I think - somebody more knowledgeable than me help me out if that’s wrong) |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2017 21:12:04 GMT -6
RCA BA-2 is the classic tube preamp sound. Period. It is the sound in everyone's head when they transition from tube guitar amps to a tube mic preamp. If you push them they distort so smoothly you can't hear it, just sounds fat when it's flatlining a waveform. V series and REDD and OP-6 can't do that, it's technically impossible for them to do so with their topologies. If I had to trade everything else in and live with 16 of the same thing, I could do it with those. Gates SA-70 isn't far behind, more agressive sounding. Coil Audio makes their fine reproduction of that circuit. Learn to drive a BA-2 or SA-70, you might never need to use compression ever again, since they can do it for you.
Having said that, anyone is welcome to buy my Langevin AM-5116-B's from me, they are widely loved. If you like 12AX7's as many do, they might be your bag. And I have an RCA BN-2 in the classifieds, it's an OP-6 / OP-7 hybrid from a few years later. 100% the OP-6 circuit, with the OP-7 multi-input stages added. Pretty easily changed to just be the OP-6 part.
The most technically elegant pure simple tube pre sound? Maybe the Altec 458A. Fat wide clean clear forgiving. Fixed gain, wah wah.
WTF, again, with the Beatles inspired cult of adoration for the REDD and the German? I guarantee most people shouting their praises haven't tried much of anything else. There's so many good options outside that stuff, and it to me honestly sounds so much closer to SS than any of the tube gear I like. I've got 46 types of vintage tube preamps currently, and have heard quite a few more than that (I've owned the real-deal Western Electric stuff too), so pardon the opinions. There's a lot of popular stuff out there that hasn't impressed me sonically. All that V stuff has input transformers that die easily, and can't take phantom power, unlike ANYTHING else anyone ever made. Lose the original transformers, lose most of the sound you were after.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 21:13:36 GMT -6
Which V72 version is the one to get?
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2017 21:16:22 GMT -6
V76 is fantastic, and just slightly more hifi sounding to me than the V72. However, for critical recording where something screwing up can really ruin a track, I stay away from even the most healthy v76 like my life depends on it. The gain pots on them are seriously over engineered German specimens and unfortunately (the 4 we have) didnt stand the test of time. Those gain pots should be rebuilt from the ground up, if I read you correctly. There is no reason whatsoever that any of these old preamps can't function today in a bullet-proof manner. It may not be cheap to get them there, but it isn't impossible. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 21:21:01 GMT -6
Totally forgot to mention Coil Audio...I've still got my eye on that CA-70 single channel...
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2017 21:21:18 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 30, 2017 22:18:05 GMT -6
V76 is fantastic, and just slightly more hifi sounding to me than the V72. However, for critical recording where something screwing up can really ruin a track, I stay away from even the most healthy v76 like my life depends on it. The gain pots on them are seriously over engineered German specimens and unfortunately (the 4 we have) didnt stand the test of time. Those gain pots should be rebuilt from the ground up, if I read you correctly. There is no reason whatsoever that any of these old preamps can't function today in a bullet-proof manner. It may not be cheap to get them there, but it isn't impossible. I’ve got no idea where to even begin looking for parts for something like that. I’m talking about the input gain switch that you turn with a quarter. Any tips for parts? |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2017 22:45:02 GMT -6
Those gain pots should be rebuilt from the ground up, if I read you correctly. There is no reason whatsoever that any of these old preamps can't function today in a bullet-proof manner. It may not be cheap to get them there, but it isn't impossible. I’ve got no idea where to even begin looking for parts for something like that. I’m talking about the input gain switch that you turn with a quarter. Any tips for parts? That's certainly a PITA switch to replace, not service friendly, but given the value of those, someone has to have it sorted. It's a dual deck 2 x 12, which isn't super rare, but getting scarce as a new in production part. Probably have to sub it with something along the lines of a Goldpoint or Elma with some custom metal to hold it in the right position, adapt the screw head and number plate. Someone's surely done it. Or could be removing them for an ultrasonic bath cleaning and a solder touch up could do it too. Tele stuff is definitely not my service specialty, and if it was, I'm sure I'd have to have an answer for that, it's gotta be a common problem as many things as that switch does. |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Dec 30, 2017 23:22:37 GMT -6
I am by no means as knowledgeable about or as experienced with preamps as I am about microphones, but I have had some good experiences with a few. I own a Tab Funkenwerk V78M. It's their modern and affordable take on the V72S. Unlike the original V72 it does have a variable gain switch. So you can hit the preamps a touch softer and get something a little cleaner than a standard V72S, although it's still not clean by any means. I find this to give me a little more in the top end than my UA Solo 610, which can be a bit muddier. These days all of my crooning recordings go through the V78M. It sounds really great in a mix. I even did an operatic recording recently with my U87ai through the V78M and it was fantastic. I also had great luck with a Summit MPC-100A in conjunction with a U87ai. It's what I used on my first album.... of course the awesome sound we got could have something to do with recording in the hall at the New York Opera Center, but I know that is their go to signal chain on everyone and it sounded great on me and my wife on our duet. I really want to get one of these to play around with in the studio. jtc111 owns a Demeter VTMP that I had used on a small shoot out with some friends and a client they had. We ran a TLM 103, U87AI, Blue Kiwi, Blue Woodpecker, TNC ACM-1200, and a Peluso 2247SE through that thing and everything sounded wonderful; tubey, but hifi. I sang some opera through it, our mutual friend Jack sang some rock through it (think Dennis DeYoung from Styx), and a female singer songwriter (think Taylor Dayne) sang through it as well and it all really worked. It's kind of a sleeper piece and you can get one for about 1k on eBay and reverb when they pop up. Not bad for 2 nice tube channels. Once my new mics arrive I may bug Jim to borrow it or at least bring it by so I can do some direct comparisons with the V78M.  |
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 30, 2017 23:25:08 GMT -6
You guys rock... this info is SO useful. Thanks for all the great input. The Coil Audio stuff has been peaking my interest bigtime lately - and have been hammering for a V72 or two also.
|
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 30, 2017 23:32:38 GMT -6
RCA BA-2 is the classic tube preamp sound. Period. It is the sound in everyone's head when they transition from tube guitar amps to a tube mic preamp. If you push them they distort so smoothly you can't hear it, just sounds fat when it's flatlining a waveform. V series and REDD and OP-6 can't do that, it's technically impossible for them to do so with their topologies. If I had to trade everything else in and live with 16 of the same thing, I could do it with those. Gates SA-70 isn't far behind, more agressive sounding. Coil Audio makes their fine reproduction of that circuit. Learn to drive a BA-2 or SA-70, you might never need to use compression ever again, since they can do it for you. Having said that, anyone is welcome to buy my Langevin AM-5116-B's from me, they are widely loved. If you like 12AX7's as many do, they might be your bag. And I have an RCA BN-2 in the classifieds, it's an OP-6 / OP-7 hybrid from a few years later. 100% the OP-6 circuit, with the OP-7 multi-input stages added. Pretty easily changed to just be the OP-6 part. The most technically elegant pure simple tube pre sound? Maybe the Altec 458A. Fat wide clean clear forgiving. Fixed gain, wah wah. WTF, again, with the Beatles inspired cult of adoration for the REDD and the German? I guarantee most people shouting their praises haven't tried much of anything else. There's so many good options outside that stuff, and it to me honestly sounds so much closer to SS than any of the tube gear I like. I've got 46 types of vintage tube preamps currently, and have heard quite a few more than that (I've owned the real-deal Western Electric stuff too), so pardon the opinions. There's a lot of popular stuff out there that hasn't impressed me sonically. All that V stuff has input transformers that die easily, and can't take phantom power, unlike ANYTHING else anyone ever made. Lose the original transformers, lose most of the sound you were after. Awesome post EmRR - 16 RCA BA-2’s it is... I wish. Fantastic info Man. I’m gonna scour for more info on several of the pres you mentioned. And I’ll be checking out your classified ad too. Thanks for the great post! |
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 30, 2017 23:36:14 GMT -6
I am by no means as knowledgeable about or as experienced with preamps as I am about microphones, but I have had some good experiences with a few. I own a Tab Funkenwerk V78M. It's their modern and affordable take on the V72S. Unlike the original V72 it does have a variable gain switch. So you can hit the preamps a touch softer and get something a little cleaner than a standard V72S, although it's still not clean by any means. I find this to give me a little more in the top end than my UA Solo 610, which can be a bit muddier. These days all of my crooning recordings go through the V78M. It sounds really great in a mix. I even did an operatic recording recently with my U87ai through the V78M and it was fantastic. I also had great luck with a Summit MPC-100A in conjunction with a U87ai. It's what I used on my first album.... of course the awesome sound we got could have something to do with recording in the hall at the New York Opera Center, but I know that is their go to signal chain on everyone and it sounded great on me and my wife on our duet. I really want to get one of these to play around with in the studio. jtc111 owns a Demeter VTMP that I had used on a small shoot out with some friends and a client they had. We ran a TLM 103, U87AI, Blue Kiwi, Blue Woodpecker, TNC ACM-1200, and a Peluso 2247SE through that thing and everything sounded wonderful; tubey, but hifi. I sang some opera through it, our mutual friend Jack sang some rock through it (think Dennis DeYoung from Styx), and a female singer songwriter (think Taylor Dayne) sang through it as well and it all really worked. It's kind of a sleeper piece and you can get one for about 1k on eBay and reverb when they pop up. Not bad for 2 nice tube channels. Once my new mics arrive I may bug Jim to borrow it or at least bring it by so I can do some direct comparisons with the V78M. Are the Tab Funkenwerks still available since Oliver (RIP) passed away? Or are they only available used these days? |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Dec 30, 2017 23:38:59 GMT -6
I am by no means as knowledgeable about or as experienced with preamps as I am about microphones, but I have had some good experiences with a few. I own a Tab Funkenwerk V78M. It's their modern and affordable take on the V72S. Unlike the original V72 it does have a variable gain switch. So you can hit the preamps a touch softer and get something a little cleaner than a standard V72S, although it's still not clean by any means. I find this to give me a little more in the top end than my UA Solo 610, which can be a bit muddier. These days all of my crooning recordings go through the V78M. It sounds really great in a mix. I even did an operatic recording recently with my U87ai through the V78M and it was fantastic. I also had great luck with a Summit MPC-100A in conjunction with a U87ai. It's what I used on my first album.... of course the awesome sound we got could have something to do with recording in the hall at the New York Opera Center, but I know that is their go to signal chain on everyone and it sounded great on me and my wife on our duet. I really want to get one of these to play around with in the studio. jtc111 owns a Demeter VTMP that I had used on a small shoot out with some friends and a client they had. We ran a TLM 103, U87AI, Blue Kiwi, Blue Woodpecker, TNC ACM-1200, and a Peluso 2247SE through that thing and everything sounded wonderful; tubey, but hifi. I sang some opera through it, our mutual friend Jack sang some rock through it (think Dennis DeYoung from Styx), and a female singer songwriter (think Taylor Dayne) sang through it as well and it all really worked. It's kind of a sleeper piece and you can get one for about 1k on eBay and reverb when they pop up. Not bad for 2 nice tube channels. Once my new mics arrive I may bug Jim to borrow it or at least bring it by so I can do some direct comparisons with the V78M. Are the Tab Funkenworks still available since Oliver (RIP) passed away? Or are they only available used these days? My understanding is they are trying to get things back up and running, but they are not up and running yet, unfortunately. |
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 31, 2017 0:29:09 GMT -6
You can get a 4 channel Sebatron for $1000 on eBay, and they sound killer. Drop in some NOS mullards or GE's, like I did, and it's even better. They're kinda under the radar, and I hope they stay that way. thanks for the tip on the Sebatrons - I’ll keep my eyes peeled for a good price on one. Are they pretty smooth sounding? I’m looking for pres that will smooth transients and Sound fairly big |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Dec 31, 2017 3:49:50 GMT -6
Check out the Tree Audio channel strip. It sounds incredible without imposing a "toob" stamp over the sounds.
|
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 31, 2017 7:38:13 GMT -6
Mostly from another thread. I'm picking up a Locomotive 286A. Haven't used it, but like their other products, so I'm adding to the stable.
Previously, I've owned a Thermionic Culture Rooster and Peavey VMP-2, which were both outstanding tube preamps. The Rooster is really flexible with the eq section, attitude, and switchable triode/pentode selection. It also has seperate line and mic inputs, so you can be set up for both tracking and mixing and switch between the inputs with the flick of a switch. Nice workflow feature.
The Peavey has a really great (I can't believe I'm calling something from Peavey great) vintagey tone. Much less flexible than the Rooster, but it's got a great tone and can sometimes be found for a great price. I wouldn't hesitate to grab either the Rooster or Peavey again.
|
|
|
|
Post by drsax on Dec 31, 2017 9:56:34 GMT -6
Mostly from another thread. I'm picking up a Locomotive 286A. Haven't used it, but like their other products, so I'm adding to the stable. Previously, I've owned a Thermionic Culture Rooster and Peavey VMP-2, which were both outstanding tube preamps. The Rooster is really flexible with the eq section, attitude, and switchable triode/pentode selection. It also has seperate line and mic inputs, so you can be set up for both tracking and mixing and switch between the inputs with the flick of a switch. Nice workflow feature. The Peavey has a really great (I can't believe I'm calling something from Peavey great) vintagey tone. Much less flexible than the Rooster, but it's got a great tone and can sometimes be found for a great price. I wouldn't hesitate to grab either the Rooster or Peavey again. Very cool - I’ve heard great thing about the Locomotive stuff - please let us know your thoughts after you get a chance to put it through it’s paces. I’ve had my eye on a few of their pieces. |
|
|
|
Post by jeromemason on Dec 31, 2017 11:17:26 GMT -6
V76 or V72's. Gorgeous. LaChap is severely underrated and crazy enough I think it's because of the price.
For a Female vocal, the LaChap's are butter.
For acoustic guitar, V72/76's, BIG smooth round and just the right pinch of Hi's, love them on acoustics.
Also, grab yourself an old Ampex 601 and have it modded (can't remember the company) It can be an incredible tube pre on anything, especially bass.
|
|
