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Post by gouge on Dec 26, 2017 3:55:58 GMT -6
i'm looking at adding a neve module to my mic preamp setup.
in budget range are the hairball copper aml ez1081pre aml ez1073pre
i know the aml is new but has anyone had any ears on experience with any of the above and can make a comparison of sound.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2017 8:07:55 GMT -6
Take a look at the rackmount AML 1073ez! As my Heritage 1073 is now not expected till February I keep looking at it and thinking how can you beat this Colin's kits are also some of the best documented!
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Post by drbill on Dec 26, 2017 11:32:35 GMT -6
I'd agree with eric.
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diy neve
Dec 26, 2017 12:37:54 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gouge on Dec 26, 2017 12:37:54 GMT -6
The ez1073 isn't in budget.
I could build 3 of the aml 500 series pres for the same as the 1073 rack mount.
I was going to build the hairball kit but then the aml's came out.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on Dec 26, 2017 15:16:08 GMT -6
The ez1073 isn't in budget. I could build 3 of the aml 500 series pres for the same as the 1073 rack mount. I was going to build the hairball kit but then the aml's came out. I get it, but with 8ch's of pretty decent Neve pre amps sitting here I have to say at some point you want to be able to reach for that EQ while tracking for the real Neve experience!
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diy neve
Dec 26, 2017 15:41:08 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gouge on Dec 26, 2017 15:41:08 GMT -6
Dont mean any disrespect but the ez1073 is not in the budget so with your approach I get nothing. Which doesn't resolve needing, not wanting.. More preamps.
I've been using ma5's for a few years now without eq.
Plan is to use my other eq's during tracking.
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diy neve
Dec 26, 2017 21:53:40 GMT -6
via mobile
gouge likes this
Post by mulmany on Dec 26, 2017 21:53:40 GMT -6
I do believe the aml's are the cheapest Neve clones going at the moment. I am happy with my NV73's, but they will cost a good bit more then the AML's.
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Post by gouge on Dec 26, 2017 22:17:01 GMT -6
yeah they do seem great value. my heart is leaning towards the 1081 but my head says 1073.
never heard a 1081 pre so wondering if its to close to my lola preamps. with the ma5's i was using i did like to drive them.
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Post by jayson on Dec 26, 2017 22:24:26 GMT -6
It kinda depends on what you want from the pre. You probably won't hate either. I've built a couple of the 1081 modules and I've also built a Hairball Copper. If you're looking for that authentic, rich, Neve-ish "Audio Hollandaise Sauce", the AML is really the way to go. They're a fairly simple build and they really do sound huge - whether it's for a featured element of the mix or a background one. The only real caveat I can offer about the 500 stuff that Colin has is that they don't have and integrated output control, so to really get the best versatility and the sweet overdrive these units can produce it's best to have 'em in a rack that has some kind of downstream variable output control. Mine are in a Radial Workhorse 5000 rack which makes it a lot easier to crank the gain and turn down the output and enjoy the lovely jump in THD.
No dis to the Hairball; it's a pretty nice little utility mic-pre, but it just doesn't have the same oomph that the AML does. I'll leave it to you to determine what "oomph" means, but from where I sit it's a very GOOD thing! I built the Copper in between a couple of VP28 builds, so it was up against some seriously heavy competition and, although I like it, it doesn't really knock my socks off. It's really not bad for those applications where you have a track that's going to be laying down more in the mix, but it definitely didn't scratch that Neve itch the way that the AML did. The AML pretty much put a big grin on my face the second I heard it- it's a sound you'll recognize instantly. I'm considering doing a Lola build at some point with John Hardy op-amps, but I've got two 1073 EZ channels I'd like to do first.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 22:55:22 GMT -6
Any clone labelled 1073, 1084, 1081 etc. that does not include the original Neve EQ circuit AND a line transformer input that allows the EQ to be used standalone (for mixing etc) is using the Neve nomenclature falsely and all clone manufacturers should cease and desist from doing so.
The EQ is a major part of the 'Neve' sound and without it you're getting the apples without the pie and the cream.
A Neve 1073 and a 1084 without EQ wind up being basically the same thing, a Neve 1290 micpre. Even then many clone manufacturers use the lower gain (and cheaper) 1272 amplifier circuit and still have the audacity to try and associate it with a 1073.
It's like saying because my VW Beetle has the same door handles, indicator stalk and rearview mirror as a 1971 Porsche I'll advertise it as a Porsche when I sell it. But of course I would be called out as a fraudster immediately.
So it's time to hold these "clonester's" to account! Cease the misleading nomenclature!
How many users of the originals don't engage the EQ every time they use them? I would suggest almost none.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 22:57:12 GMT -6
The ez1073 isn't in budget. I could build 3 of the aml 500 series pres for the same as the 1073 rack mount. I was going to build the hairball kit but then the aml's came out. I get it, but with 8ch's of pretty decent Neve pre amps sitting here I have to say at some point you want to be able to reach for that EQ while tracking for the real Neve experience! EXACTLY! How many times has it been said... "Track on a Neve for the sound of the iron AND THE EQ and mix on an SSL for the automation!"
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Post by drbill on Dec 26, 2017 23:30:57 GMT -6
Any clone labelled 1073, 1084, 1081 etc. that does not include the original Neve EQ circuit AND a line transformer input that allows the EQ to be used standalone (for mixing etc) is using the Neve nomenclature falsely and all clone manufacturers should cease and desist from doing so. I got in trouble for saying basically the same thing about one of the favored brands here. I hope you don't get into trouble too.....
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Post by rowmat on Dec 26, 2017 23:38:45 GMT -6
Any clone labelled 1073, 1084, 1081 etc. that does not include the original Neve EQ circuit AND a line transformer input that allows the EQ to be used standalone (for mixing etc) is using the Neve nomenclature falsely and all clone manufacturers should cease and desist from doing so. I got in trouble for saying basically the same thing about one of the favored brands here. I hope you don't get into trouble too..... People seem to get hung up on anything with 1073 in the title and their BS detector then promptly malfunctions. It's really the marketing crowds that should be held responsible. Even AMS Neve are guilty of this as they muddied the water years ago with their own various micpre only 1073 versions. AMS Neve are technically just another clone maker of the original 1970's Rupert Neve micpre/EQ's. After they acquired the Neve name they didn't manufacture any 1970's Neve designs until it became obvious they were losing potential sales to the likes of BAE etc about 15 years ago and jumped on the clone bandwagon themselves. I think it's fair to say that most who base their Neve desire on the sound of those albums tracked on the old school Neve's from the 1970's and into the 1980's are often overlooking the a large part of the sound is the Neve EQ along with all the additional iron in the rest of the console. If it hasn't at least got a 1290 type micpre with EQ and a line input transformer based on the original Neve spec then it's not an original 1073 and should not be referred to as one. But hey, who's really going to give a rats!
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Post by drbill on Dec 27, 2017 0:01:29 GMT -6
Yeah, but who knows what a 1290 is as compared to 1073. OK....ducking out now before the paddle comes out..... Haha!! As much as I love Colin's stuff, I'm kind of surprised he succumbed to the same deal as everyone else. I guess if you can't fight it, join it??? Even after telling me that a 1073 pre without the EQ doesn't sound the same as a 1073 WITH an EQ - even if it's not engaged.
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Post by terryrocks on Dec 27, 2017 0:15:41 GMT -6
I bet he offers various flavors of eq followers before too long. Just speculating, of course
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Post by rowmat on Dec 27, 2017 0:18:48 GMT -6
Yeah, but who knows what a 1290 is as compared to 1073. OK....ducking out now before the paddle comes out..... Haha!! In a nutshell a Neve 1290 is a three stage (up to 80db gain) micpre without EQ. An 'original' (1970's) 1073 is a 1290 micpre with EQ an a line input transformer. A 1272 is a lower gain two stage (around 40db gain) line amplifier but often sold as a "1073 style micpre" online. Geoff Tanner is the man who knows all this old Neve stuff inside out. I took an interest after I built several Seventh Circle Audio N72's which are very accurate reproductions of the Neve 1290 micpre according to Geoff Tanner. (Correction the N72 is a two stage high gain version of the 1272) However after getting my old 3115 Neve 50 series broadcast module running I realised I wanted the more Neve EQ's which no DIY clone manufacturers were accurately doing at the time so I ended up with several Heritage 80 Series modules and a couple of Neve 33114's. There's a few more DIY Neve EQ options these days.
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Post by drbill on Dec 27, 2017 0:21:17 GMT -6
Yeah, but who knows what a 1290 is as compared to 1073. OK....ducking out now before the paddle comes out..... Haha!! In a nutshell a Neve 1290 is a three stage (up to 80db gain) micpre without EQ. An 'original' (1970's) 1073 is a 1290 micpre with EQ an a line input transformer. Yes. I know all of that. But telling others gets me in trouble. Especially when they are a favored brand with fans. You've been forewarned...... LOL
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Post by rowmat on Dec 27, 2017 0:23:19 GMT -6
Yeah, but who knows what a 1290 is as compared to 1073. OK....ducking out now before the paddle comes out..... Haha!! As much as I love Colin's stuff, I'm kind of surprised he succumbed to the same deal as everyone else. I guess if you can't fight it, join it??? Even after telling me that a 1073 pre without the EQ doesn't sound the same as a 1073 WITH an EQ - even if it's not engaged. Ok I've prepared the fallout shelter and put my hardhat on! Colin actually does a 1073 style micpre/EQ but it's not a kit. It appears to be fairly faithfull to the original design. www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/AML%2d16%2d021%5fextended%5finfo%2ehtml
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Post by wiz on Dec 27, 2017 0:32:08 GMT -6
Yeah, but who knows what a 1290 is as compared to 1073. OK....ducking out now before the paddle comes out..... Haha!! As much as I love Colin's stuff, I'm kind of surprised he succumbed to the same deal as everyone else. I guess if you can't fight it, join it??? Even after telling me that a 1073 pre without the EQ doesn't sound the same as a 1073 WITH an EQ - even if it's not engaged. Colin actually does a 1073 style micpre/EQ but it's not a kit. It appears to be fairly faithfull to the original design. www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/AML%2d16%2d021%5fextended%5finfo%2ehtmlThats the one I have... they were a kit for some time in the beginning. cheers Wiz
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Post by drbill on Dec 27, 2017 0:36:46 GMT -6
Yeah, but who knows what a 1290 is as compared to 1073. OK....ducking out now before the paddle comes out..... Haha!! As much as I love Colin's stuff, I'm kind of surprised he succumbed to the same deal as everyone else. I guess if you can't fight it, join it??? Even after telling me that a 1073 pre without the EQ doesn't sound the same as a 1073 WITH an EQ - even if it's not engaged. Ok I've prepared the fallout shelter and put my hardhat on! Colin actually does a 1073 style micpre/EQ but it's not a kit. It appears to be fairly faithfull to the original design. www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/AML%2d16%2d021%5fextended%5finfo%2ehtmlYes. I have a pair of them. Like them very much. I use a full face Arai MX helmet.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 27, 2017 0:46:19 GMT -6
Yes. I have a pair of them. Like them very much. I use a full face Arai MX helmet. Does the Arai MX stop .50 cal armor piercing ammo or should I go all Ned Kelly?
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Post by gouge on Dec 27, 2017 3:18:02 GMT -6
It kinda depends on what you want from the pre. You probably won't hate either. I've built a couple of the 1081 modules and I've also built a Hairball Copper. If you're looking for that authentic, rich, Neve-ish "Audio Hollandaise Sauce", the AML is really the way to go. They're a fairly simple build and they really do sound huge - whether it's for a featured element of the mix or a background one. The only real caveat I can offer about the 500 stuff that Colin has is that they don't have and integrated output control, so to really get the best versatility and the sweet overdrive these units can produce it's best to have 'em in a rack that has some kind of downstream variable output control. Mine are in a Radial Workhorse 5000 rack which makes it a lot easier to crank the gain and turn down the output and enjoy the lovely jump in THD. No dis to the Hairball; it's a pretty nice little utility mic-pre, but it just doesn't have the same oomph that the AML does. I'll leave it to you to determine what "oomph" means, but from where I sit it's a very GOOD thing! I built the Copper in between a couple of VP28 builds, so it was up against some seriously heavy competition and, although I like it, it doesn't really knock my socks off. It's really not bad for those applications where you have a track that's going to be laying down more in the mix, but it definitely didn't scratch that Neve itch the way that the AML did. The AML pretty much put a big grin on my face the second I heard it- it's a sound you'll recognize instantly. I'm considering doing a Lola build at some point with John Hardy op-amps, but I've got two 1073 EZ channels I'd like to do first. thank you so much for your review. what you have described is exactly what i am chasing. pretty much made up my mind now.
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Post by gouge on Dec 27, 2017 3:25:29 GMT -6
I got in trouble for saying basically the same thing about one of the favored brands here. I hope you don't get into trouble too..... People seem to get hung up on anything with 1073 in the title and their BS detector then promptly malfunctions. It's really the marketing crowds that should be held responsible. Even AMS Neve are guilty of this as they muddied the water years ago with their own various micpre only 1073 versions. AMS Neve are technically just another clone maker of the original 1970's Rupert Neve micpre/EQ's. After they acquired the Neve name they didn't manufacture any 1970's Neve designs until it became obvious they were losing potential sales to the likes of BAE etc about 15 years ago and jumped on the clone bandwagon themselves. I think it's fair to say that most who base their Neve desire on the sound of those albums tracked on the old school Neve's from the 1970's and into the 1980's are often overlooking the a large part of the sound is the Neve EQ along with all the additional iron in the rest of the console. If it hasn't at least got a 1290 type micpre with EQ and a line input transformer based on the original Neve spec then it's not an original 1073 and should not be referred to as one. But hey, who's really going to give a rats! well i don't give a rats. i just want a pre that makes me smile all day long. if it is technically a 1290, or a wfij40ru- i don't care to be honest. it is possible to apply genres to preamps. like comparing bands. what camp is it in..... 1073, api. same goes for the hairball gold. i for a minute don't think it is a jensen preamp or a hardy. but is it in the same camp... sure. so i know what i'm getting into. it's a little condescending to suggest that people are uninformed with typology or blinded by marketing. maybe try and be a little more open minded.
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Post by gouge on Dec 27, 2017 3:27:48 GMT -6
I bet he offers various flavors of eq followers before too long. Just speculating, of course i'm hoping this is the case too.
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Post by gouge on Dec 27, 2017 3:42:25 GMT -6
Any clone labelled 1073, 1084, 1081 etc. that does not include the original Neve EQ circuit AND a line transformer input that allows the EQ to be used standalone (for mixing etc) is using the Neve nomenclature falsely and all clone manufacturers should cease and desist from doing so. The EQ is a major part of the 'Neve' sound and without it you're getting the apples without the pie and the cream. A Neve 1073 and a 1084 without EQ wind up being basically the same thing, a Neve 1290 micpre. Even then many clone manufacturers use the lower gain (and cheaper) 1272 amplifier circuit and still have the audacity to try and associate it with a 1073. It's like saying because my VW Beetle has the same door handles, indicator stalk and rearview mirror as a 1971 Porsche I'll advertise it as a Porsche when I sell it. But of course I would be called out as a fraudster immediately. So it's time to hold these "clonester's" to account! Cease the misleading nomenclature! How many users of the originals don't engage the EQ every time they use them? I would suggest almost none. hmm, you got me interested in your gear so i looked on your website. an impressive array of gear. did you fail your own test ? . Heritage Audio 8173 Pre/EQ (Neve style Class ‘A’ 1081) x 2 Heritage Audio 6673 Pre/EQ (Neve style Class ‘A’) x 2 Mercury Audio Bruder – Tube (Telefunken V72s/V76M style) CAPI VP28 (API Style) x 4 CAPI VP312 (API Style) x 2 Sound Skulptor EQP573 (Neve 1084 style EQ) x 2 Seventh Circle Audio N72 (Neve Style) x 4 Seventh Circle Audio J99 (John Hardy Twin Servo Style) x 2 Seventh Circle Audio C84 (Millenia Style) x 2
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