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Post by 79sg on Dec 12, 2017 12:17:11 GMT -6
Until the gov stops corporations from having the same rights as humans, and until there are term limits for politicians, and until corporations are stopped from tailoring laws to suit their financial bottom line by way of lobbyists, expect the continued rise of the uber rich, the continued decline of the middle class, and the continued growth of poverty in the richest country (??) on earth. All cloaked under the guise of making the internet "more fair and better". It's all a huge smokescreen guys..... The biggest "land grab" in the history of mankind. And the public is so enamored with their amazon shopping, google searches and Facebook that they can't even see it. Technically, it's not the richest country on Earth as it's the largest debtor nation in history. Funny thing happened along the way, they have convinced the overwhelming majority that debt = money. How so?, look at the cash in your wallet and read that horrific statement across the top of one of those fiat bills, "Federal Reserve Note". Note is debt, period. Every unit created out of thin air into existence is someones liability until it is removed from circulation. Great Past the point of no return, buckle up. The ride will get bumpy. Finally, due to all of the reason you stated drbill that unfortunately won't happen until we hit the wall (which history clearly shows will happen as it has to every single society that has gone down a similar path).
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 12, 2017 12:18:18 GMT -6
Google is trying to keep AT&T out of selling fast lanes. That competition could seriously reduce the cost of high-speed distribution exposing Google and their buddies to real competition. It's worth noting that Europe has better internet connections and there is no "net neutrality."
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Post by drbill on Dec 12, 2017 12:22:43 GMT -6
Until the gov stops corporations from having the same rights as humans, and until there are term limits for politicians, and until corporations are stopped from tailoring laws to suit their financial bottom line by way of lobbyists, expect the continued rise of the uber rich, the continued decline of the middle class, and the continued growth of poverty in the richest country (??) on earth. All cloaked under the guise of making the internet "more fair and better". It's all a huge smokescreen guys..... The biggest "land grab" in the history of mankind. And the public is so enamored with their amazon shopping, google searches and Facebook that they can't even see it. Technically, it's not the richest country on Earth as it's the largest debtor nation in history. Funny thing happened along the way, they have convinced the overwhelming majority that debt = money. How so?, look at the cash in your wallet and read that horrific statement across the top of one of those fiat bills, "Federal Reserve Note". Note is debt, period. Every unit created out of thin air into existence is someones liability until it is removed from circulation. Great Past the point of no return, buckle up. The ride will get bumpy. Finally, due to all of the reason you stated drbill that unfortunately won't happen until we hit the wall (which history clearly shows will happen as it has to every single society that has gone down a similar path). Yeah....I know. Hence the (??)
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Post by drbill on Dec 12, 2017 12:26:20 GMT -6
The general public's reaction to SOPA was mind shattering to me. To see people's hate towards musicians and the creative community because of the lies Google & Friends spread was horrific, and changed my mindset forever. The power that Google wields in the public's eye, the halls of congress and the senate, and across the globe is unprecedented and beyond scary.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2017 12:28:09 GMT -6
Would you rather have a slightly slower internet -- or monolithic puppet control over your government by one of the most greedy corporations ever to rule over the planet? General public : "What? It took an extra second to load Facebook on my phone....wtf....." "F musicians and songwriters. Those greedy basterds all live in Beverly Hills and drive Bently's. They don't need any protection from anything" The question is which greedy overloaded ? Google ? AT&T? Verizon? I'm waiting to see who Wells Fargo aligns with and run in the Oposite direction!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2017 12:36:35 GMT -6
The general public's reaction to SOPA was mind shattering to me. To see people's hate towards musicians and the creative community because of the lies Google & Friends spread was horrific, and changed my mindset forever. The power that Google wields in the public's eye, the halls of congress and the senate, and across the globe is unprecedented and beyond scary. The problem is when you own the media people tend to trust you, as the media becomes more and more biased people move more and more to a media that plays to their beliefs and puts more faith in them! The days of Edward R Murrow are long past ! The thing at heart here is we all want a Truely Neutral net Not Googles Flavor of course when it comes to manipulating the people and the Government for greed ATT could give a Google a master's class!
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Post by spindrift on Dec 12, 2017 12:45:29 GMT -6
As someone who used to be able to adopt strong and ignorant viewpoints with great rapidity, the older I get, the more I understand how uninformed I really am. I am greatly discouraged at all the obfuscation taking place in politics. You can't really trust any news source these days.
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Post by 79sg on Dec 12, 2017 12:48:26 GMT -6
Technically, it's not the richest country on Earth as it's the largest debtor nation in history. Funny thing happened along the way, they have convinced the overwhelming majority that debt = money. How so?, look at the cash in your wallet and read that horrific statement across the top of one of those fiat bills, "Federal Reserve Note". Note is debt, period. Every unit created out of thin air into existence is someones liability until it is removed from circulation. Great Past the point of no return, buckle up. The ride will get bumpy. Finally, due to all of the reason you stated drbill that unfortunately won't happen until we hit the wall (which history clearly shows will happen as it has to every single society that has gone down a similar path). Yeah....I know. Hence the (??) Yeah..... I picked up on the (??)
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Post by drbill on Dec 12, 2017 13:32:56 GMT -6
The general public's reaction to SOPA was mind shattering to me. To see people's hate towards musicians and the creative community because of the lies Google & Friends spread was horrific, and changed my mindset forever. The power that Google wields in the public's eye, the halls of congress and the senate, and across the globe is unprecedented and beyond scary. The problem is when you own the media people tend to trust you, as the media becomes more and more biased people move more and more to a media that plays to their beliefs and puts more faith in them! The days of Edward R Murrow are long past ! The thing at heart here is we all want a Truely Neutral net Not Googles Flavor of course when it comes to manipulating the people and the Government for greed ATT could give a Google a master's class! Perhaps, but Googles net worth far surpasses AT&T's, and AT&T has been around a LOT longer than google.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2017 13:49:41 GMT -6
The problem is when you own the media people tend to trust you, as the media becomes more and more biased people move more and more to a media that plays to their beliefs and puts more faith in them! The days of Edward R Murrow are long past ! The thing at heart here is we all want a Truely Neutral net Not Googles Flavor of course when it comes to manipulating the people and the Government for greed ATT could give a Google a master's class! Perhaps, but Googles net worth far surpasses AT&T's, and AT&T has been around a LOT longer than google. Your old enough to remember that's because the Government broke up AT&T ! Probably the biggest lesson Google hasn't learned !
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Post by swurveman on Dec 12, 2017 14:16:47 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Dec 12, 2017 14:19:07 GMT -6
The general public's reaction to SOPA was mind shattering to me. To see people's hate towards musicians and the creative community because of the lies Google & Friends spread was horrific, and changed my mindset forever. The power that Google wields in the public's eye, the halls of congress and the senate, and across the globe is unprecedented and beyond scary. Not to mention that Google has been caught many times "tailoring" their search results to push certain agendas.. The common person will search, but only see what Google deems the right answer, not simply the factual answer. Same thing happens on Wikipedia all the time.. Editors have been caught time and time again "adjusting" facts to tailor certain viewpoints. We all know The Media(TM) does it, but it seems people are either oblivious or completely ignoring that just about every website/search engine is biased.
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Post by svart on Dec 12, 2017 14:23:17 GMT -6
As someone who used to be able to adopt strong and ignorant viewpoints with great rapidity, the older I get, the more I understand how uninformed I really am. I am greatly discouraged at all the obfuscation taking place in politics. You can't really trust any news source these days. That's kind of the point. Disorientate your viewer, scare them with visceral stories and images then soothe them with assurances of grand knowledge.
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Post by ragan on Dec 12, 2017 14:24:21 GMT -6
...You can't really trust any news source these days. This is precisely what the fraudulent con men/women doing the obfuscating would like you to believe. Don't let 'em win. There are scores of dedicated journalists out there who take objectivity extremely seriously. You do have to work to triangulate and filter out the hucksters but they (the hucksters) draw attention to themselves nakedly these days. One good sign post for organizations that take journalism seriously is how they react when someone does make a mistake. Organizations with integrity will act quickly to admit it and fix it. If it's egregious enough, people will lose their jobs. This is exactly how it should be. The sham-organizations will just deny, distract, like you say, obfuscate, eternally. The big lie being perpetrated right now is that it's all bullshit. That you can't trust anyone or anything. And the people with a lot to hide are the ones with the huge, vested interest in getting us to believe it. It's Chekism 101. When you're trying to get away with stuff that will eventually come to light, you flood the populace with garbage and condition them to see everything as bogus. It works. Again I say, don't let 'em win.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2017 15:38:21 GMT -6
The general public's reaction to SOPA was mind shattering to me. To see people's hate towards musicians and the creative community because of the lies Google & Friends spread was horrific, and changed my mindset forever. The power that Google wields in the public's eye, the halls of congress and the senate, and across the globe is unprecedented and beyond scary. I'm not casting blame on any one administration - as they all are crooks - but check out the cozy relationship Google had with the White House and Lawmakers from 2008-2016...Frightening. theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationship-with-the-obama-white-house-in-two-charts/
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 12, 2017 15:42:31 GMT -6
...You can't really trust any news source these days. This is precisely what the fraudulent con men/women doing the obfuscating would like you to believe. Don't let 'em win. There are scores of dedicated journalists out there who take objectivity extremely seriously. You do have to work to triangulate and filter out the hucksters but they (the hucksters) draw attention to themselves nakedly these days. One good sign post for organizations that take journalism seriously is how they react when someone does make a mistake. Organizations with integrity will act quickly to admit it and fix it. If it's egregious enough, people will lose their jobs. This is exactly how it should be. The sham-organizations will just deny, distract, like you say, obfuscate, eternally. The big lie being perpetrated right now is that it's all bullshit. That you can't trust anyone or anything. And the people with a lot to hide are the ones with the huge, vested interest in getting us to believe it. It's Chekism 101. When you're trying to get away with stuff that will eventually come to light, you flood the populace with garbage and condition them to see everything as bogus. It works. Again I say, don't let 'em win. I don't disagree...but I think the even larger issue with "facts" and "truth" is that it can be bent to the will of the seeker. Your ideology determines how you digest any information. I think the larger truth is that "the truth often lies somewhere in the middle."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 16:39:58 GMT -6
In my experience (full disclosure: ex-Google employee), this is the case when it comes to national policy issues. There are hundreds of competing forces and interests at play (financial, political, legal), both externally and inside the company itself. To paint Google as a universally profit-driven/evil company is overly simplistic, and flat out incorrect, e.g. the 2010 withdrawal from China cost the company literal billions but was done for policy reasons, motivated by Sergei's experiences with oppressive governments and a refusal to participate in censorship. Prior to working there I assumed "follow the money" offered the best explanation for all decisions made by large companies, but I saw firsthand that it didn't. To be fair, there were times where financial interests carried borderline decisions, as I said, it's complicated! But FWIW, in my experience, the top brass has one of the strongest ethical cores I have witnessed in any company. No inside info about their position on this issue, but I'm personally inclined to trust Google's motivations long before AT&T/Telecomms/Politicians. (And I've been an AT&T subscriber for 15 years!)
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Post by 79sg on Dec 12, 2017 16:44:31 GMT -6
This is precisely what the fraudulent con men/women doing the obfuscating would like you to believe. Don't let 'em win. There are scores of dedicated journalists out there who take objectivity extremely seriously. You do have to work to triangulate and filter out the hucksters but they (the hucksters) draw attention to themselves nakedly these days. One good sign post for organizations that take journalism seriously is how they react when someone does make a mistake. Organizations with integrity will act quickly to admit it and fix it. If it's egregious enough, people will lose their jobs. This is exactly how it should be. The sham-organizations will just deny, distract, like you say, obfuscate, eternally. The big lie being perpetrated right now is that it's all bullshit. That you can't trust anyone or anything. And the people with a lot to hide are the ones with the huge, vested interest in getting us to believe it. It's Chekism 101. When you're trying to get away with stuff that will eventually come to light, you flood the populace with garbage and condition them to see everything as bogus. It works. Again I say, don't let 'em win. I don't disagree...but I think the even larger issue with "facts" and "truth" is that it can be bent to the will of the seeker. Your ideology determines how you digest any information. I think the larger truth is that "the truth often lies somewhere in the middle." ^ This is known as Confirmation Bias. It is also discomforting to think that Eric Blair aka George Orwell was possibly a bit too conservative with his epic novel 1984.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 12, 2017 17:05:29 GMT -6
I dunno but I've always felt the standard of journalism within the mainstream media in the US to be beyond repraoch.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 12, 2017 17:43:31 GMT -6
I've never heard anything bad about AT&T from employees and ex-employees I've known. Their pension plans were wonderful. I can't say that about any other huge corporation. Yes, they were broken up but they also paid for the research and development that invented damn near everything we use in audio and computers.
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Post by ragan on Dec 12, 2017 17:50:59 GMT -6
I don't disagree...but I think the even larger issue with "facts" and "truth" is that it can be bent to the will of the seeker. Your ideology determines how you digest any information. I think the larger truth is that "the truth often lies somewhere in the middle." ^ This is known as Confirmation Bias. It is also discomforting to think that Eric Blair aka George Orwell was possibly a bit too conservative with his epic novel 1984. No, he was just wrong. It was Huxley that got it right. Our oppression isn't forced on us by obvious tyrants (the current laughably inept attempt at such things notwithstanding), it's doled out to us as a salve. We love it and we're addicted to it. In Orwell's model, we'd all be busted for ditching our iPhones. In Huxley's, we'd riot if they tried to take them away. I say Huxley got it right.
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Post by ragan on Dec 12, 2017 17:57:05 GMT -6
This is precisely what the fraudulent con men/women doing the obfuscating would like you to believe. Don't let 'em win. There are scores of dedicated journalists out there who take objectivity extremely seriously. You do have to work to triangulate and filter out the hucksters but they (the hucksters) draw attention to themselves nakedly these days. One good sign post for organizations that take journalism seriously is how they react when someone does make a mistake. Organizations with integrity will act quickly to admit it and fix it. If it's egregious enough, people will lose their jobs. This is exactly how it should be. The sham-organizations will just deny, distract, like you say, obfuscate, eternally. The big lie being perpetrated right now is that it's all bullshit. That you can't trust anyone or anything. And the people with a lot to hide are the ones with the huge, vested interest in getting us to believe it. It's Chekism 101. When you're trying to get away with stuff that will eventually come to light, you flood the populace with garbage and condition them to see everything as bogus. It works. Again I say, don't let 'em win. I don't disagree...but I think the even larger issue with "facts" and "truth" is that it can be bent to the will of the seeker. Your ideology determines how you digest any information. I think the larger truth is that "the truth often lies somewhere in the middle." Yeah for sure. I don't mean to suggest that any ideological faction has the market on 'truth' cornered. I'm just pointing out that the narrative of "well, I throw my hands up, they're all crooks and you can't trust any of it" is being strategically foisted onto us and it's false.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2017 18:54:23 GMT -6
I've never heard anything bad about AT&T from employees and ex-employees I've known. Their pension plans were wonderful. I can't say that about any other huge corporation. Yes, they were broken up but they also paid for the research and development that invented damn near everything we use in audio and computers. Yes but as far as doing Buisness and others trying to compete they were and are a bulldozer, we owe them a ton but they were a true monopoly and if you tried to go against them they ran you over!
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Post by 79sg on Dec 12, 2017 19:13:37 GMT -6
^ This is known as Confirmation Bias. It is also discomforting to think that Eric Blair aka George Orwell was possibly a bit too conservative with his epic novel 1984. No, he was just wrong. It was Huxley that got it right. Our oppression isn't forced on us by obvious tyrants (the current laughably inept attempt at such things notwithstanding), it's doled out to us as a salve. We love it and we're addicted to it. In Orwell's model, we'd all be busted for ditching our iPhones. In Huxley's, we'd riot if they tried to take them away. I say Huxley got it right. We'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 19:20:29 GMT -6
I've never heard anything bad about AT&T from employees and ex-employees I've known. Their pension plans were wonderful. I can't say that about any other huge corporation. Yes, they were broken up but they also paid for the research and development that invented damn near everything we use in audio and computers. I can't speak in detail about this, but find a candid attorney who worked there (or at any of the major telecomms), around the time of the 2010 FCC Open Internet Order, take them for a drink, and ask them what their lobby really wanted vs. what they got (and why that was the case). I really think you and others would change their tune. At least when I was involved, the telecomms were not at all interested in protecting the little guy. Google was. I can't speak to the particulars of today's issue, but from the outside looking I see zero indication that positions have changed. Looks more like the latest salvo in a battle that's been going on behind the scenes in boardrooms/Washington for a decade +.
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