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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2017 11:56:50 GMT -6
Having a drummer over soon, classic 4 piece rogers set
I normally record in my roughly 14x22x7.5 room downstairs: ceramic tile and treated
But, my upstairs is an L shaped room, 3-4 times larger with a middle partial wall breaking up the space, wood floors and a large brick fireplace (5x6), couple of big soft fabric couches
I have 3 large gobos I made from bookshelves (3x5x1), stuffed with roxal safe and soundon and on wheels, that I could bring upstairs too
am thinking, why not, set the drums up upstairs ?
in terms of position, what do you think have him set up the kick and snare in a couple of places and just listen to what sounds best ?
I will likely record with 4 mikes (kick, snare and overheads). I will try to capture the best sounds I can but this will also be for testing SD3 tracker dugin mixdown.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 12:46:55 GMT -6
am thinking, why not, set the drums up upstairs ? As long as the bass drum fits in the stairwell! Had a funny experience with this once. I also think the biggest advantage in going to the bigger room would be the addition of some room mics for more space, if you can swing those. Are the ceilings the same height in both locations? And are/can both be treated? Likely to make a significant difference to your OH sound. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2017 12:54:16 GMT -6
upstairs ceilings are about a foot higher. I have a couple of 2x4 x 6 inch clouds I could try to mount ?
funny you should mention the stair well, as the ground floor hallway, has room for the drums, ceramic floor but opens up into a two story stair well, with wooden stairs all the way up
we have joked about pulling a Zep and recording in their with the mikes up the stairwell ?
when I first got my delta I had it on my dining room table and I noticed how much air and or top end was in the mikes
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Post by notneeson on Dec 1, 2017 13:03:49 GMT -6
I would go for the highest ceilings possible! Also, if I'm reading this right the ceilings upstairs are 8.5' I would try "underheads" to increase the distance from the ceiling.
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Post by matt on Dec 1, 2017 13:21:04 GMT -6
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Post by spindrift on Dec 1, 2017 13:23:01 GMT -6
And don't forget to stick 421s on the toms! 😆
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2017 13:29:05 GMT -6
God they sound great eh!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 15:05:42 GMT -6
upstairs ceilings are about a foot higher. I have a couple of 2x4 x 6 inch clouds I could try to mount ? I like treatment in smaller spaces for a slightly deader sound, but that's pretty subjective. If they're easy to mount, I'd try it! |
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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2017 15:37:42 GMT -6
God they sound great eh!! I have a 421 on my rack tom, but, I gate out ambience... never had a problem.. perhaps I don't know better? 8) cheers Wiz |
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 1, 2017 16:06:15 GMT -6
Walk around upstairs hitting the snare, just listen. There'll probably be a spot that sounds better than somewhere else. Next, I'd set up a mono OH over the rim of the kick and start about two sticks above the snare, and move it up til you get a good kit balance. Do this including the high hat...high hat wash is always tough in a small space. Avoid being halfway between the kit and the ceiling.
For smaller spaces I've had good luck with a somewhat different approach - using a pair of omni SDCs in a sort of modified Glyn Johns. With more traditional OH setups in a small space the stereo image gets obliterated by early reflections. Glyn Johns gets more physical separation between the mics, and also gives some variance in the surfaces that you'll catch reflections from. The mics I like for this are Sahe Audio Little Blondies, but what'd I'd be looking for would be a flatter or darker mic.
Gobos also will help on the walls closest to the kit.
I'd probably set up a pair of room mics, one front of kit and the other around the corner for some space. Last thing I'd probably do is goof around with a SM58 or something in corners, on the floor, behind a couch, whatever... just for something trashy (if that's something you think might be cool).
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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2017 16:37:35 GMT -6
I would suggest walking around, but use a floor tom, and that gives you a real good idea of the low end.... Mike Stav trick.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 1, 2017 16:59:28 GMT -6
dogears and wiz are right about walking the room and testing for sound. But first, do the Pete Townsend test, just walk around and clap, listen for some natural echo. That'll get you in the general direction, then try the drums like they suggest.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2017 17:23:26 GMT -6
Orientation:) I have 8 foot ceilings, was wondering which way do you think the drums should face: 1 down the longer distance centred, 2 towards the brick fireplace or 3 perhaps facing away from the right angle corner out in the middle so I have the most width on either side; get a nice direct sound into the mikes ? Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by ericn on Dec 1, 2017 18:22:17 GMT -6
If it works it works, remember Soundcity on paper was a terrible room, but man the drum sounds that they got!
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2017 18:30:30 GMT -6
ya I think the walk around beating my drum slowly is the best thing to do !
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Post by Guitar on Dec 3, 2017 11:04:13 GMT -6
ya I think the walk around beating my drum slowly is the best thing to do ! that sounds kind of funny, haha. |
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Post by jampa on Dec 3, 2017 12:48:58 GMT -6
you walking to me? you walking to me?
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2017 18:37:03 GMT -6
Sunday Report: News at 7 Did drum session today and did set up upstairs: worked out great. Brought up my various absorbers and set up facing down the long angle of the room: 4 mikes,s, k adn ovrhds, put out in front of the kit about 4 feet out and 5 feet up, angled down at the kit. 20 takes with 4-5 really good. (click on pics then they orient fine !) Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 3, 2017 18:55:30 GMT -6
I've never tried mics in that position before. How'd it work / sound? Were the mic in cardoid? I'd think you'd end up with a lot of the back wall with that position.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 3, 2017 20:28:29 GMT -6
yes 2 front mikes were in cardoid and aimed done actually at snare, you wouldn't now but I had hung a very heavy duvet queen sized immediately behind the drummer to kill some of the sound off the back wall
actually capture went well, all mikes into wa 412 with pads on
this was a bit of a test too as I have sd3 with its tracker function so I wanted to get good capture and see what things sound like ( first time recording in the upstairs room so very pleased with that) with the wav files but also save to another session and load in sd3 and use tracker and then trigger the sd3 samples.
Matt had just been in a studio with some relatively big name producer who used something like this, so we tried it.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 4, 2017 13:15:08 GMT -6
yes 2 front mikes were in cardoid and aimed done actually at snare, you wouldn't now but I had hung a very heavy duvet queen sized immediately behind the drummer to kill some of the sound off the back wall actually capture went well, all mikes into wa 412 with pads on this was a bit of a test too as I have sd3 with its tracker function so I wanted to get good capture and see what things sound like ( first time recording in the upstairs room so very pleased with that) with the wav files but also save to another session and load in sd3 and use tracker and then trigger the sd3 samples. Matt had just been in a studio with some relatively big name producer who used something like this, so we tried it. Try the WA412 without the pad, LEDs hitting the red on peaks put not totally drilled, and output backed off for sane levels to the AD convertor. It sounds really good! |
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Post by svart on Dec 4, 2017 13:38:14 GMT -6
I prefer a deader sound for modern drums. It's a lot easier to add synthetic reverb and ambience than it is to take away too much captured during recording.
Also, you have to remember that the amount of compression added during the mix will make the ambience you do capture sound more up front in the mix. I've heard plenty of recordings where folks recorded in a very "live" room but then once they added compression to get the modern "smack" of the drums, the room tone was unbearable..
So I always say less is more. Get your ambience from crushed room mics and reverb boxes, or reamp the overhead/room mics through speakers in a large room and add your ambience that way.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 4, 2017 15:11:28 GMT -6
yes 2 front mikes were in cardoid and aimed done actually at snare, you wouldn't now but I had hung a very heavy duvet queen sized immediately behind the drummer to kill some of the sound off the back wall actually capture went well, all mikes into wa 412 with pads on this was a bit of a test too as I have sd3 with its tracker function so I wanted to get good capture and see what things sound like ( first time recording in the upstairs room so very pleased with that) with the wav files but also save to another session and load in sd3 and use tracker and then trigger the sd3 samples. Matt had just been in a studio with some relatively big name producer who used something like this, so we tried it. Try the WA412 without the pad, LEDs hitting the red on peaks put not totally drilled, and output backed off for sane levels to the AD convertor. It sounds really good! True bu I clipped a previous recording with this drummer so did not want to make that mistake twice  Also, first time recording in the upstairs room so I wanted to keep it simple and see what the volume in the room was like to work in. Every session is a learning opportunity. I'll work with the wav files I got, plus use sd3 tracker and see how that works out. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 4, 2017 15:17:47 GMT -6
What genre are you working in? I feel like that should have been asked in the first comment.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 4, 2017 15:30:46 GMT -6
Try the WA412 without the pad, LEDs hitting the red on peaks put not totally drilled, and output backed off for sane levels to the AD convertor. It sounds really good! True bu I clipped a previous recording with this drummer so did not want to make that mistake twice Also, first time recording in the upstairs room so I wanted to keep it simple and see what the volume in the room was like to work in. Every session is a learning opportunity. I'll work with the wav files I got, plus use sd3 tracker and see how that works out. It's really easy to clip the convertors with 312 style mic pres on drums in particular. I highly recommend the "yellow is the new red" mindset for working in a DAW. The output trims on the WA are such a great feature coming from using a vintage 3124+ and BAE racked API 312s. I can't say it enough! |
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Also, first time recording in the upstairs room so I wanted to keep it simple and see what the volume in the room was like to work in. Every session is a learning opportunity. I'll work with the wav files I got, plus use sd3 tracker and see how that works out.