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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 16, 2017 7:57:00 GMT -6
If the house passed the bill today to cut taxes, it will no doubt pass in the senate. This means the small business tax rate will fall to 9%. Wonderful news for all small businesses and I would think help many on this forum. Thoughts?
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Post by 79sg on Nov 16, 2017 9:19:22 GMT -6
My thoughts and experience are that the words "tax" and "cut" are a contradiction in terms and can never be used together.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 16, 2017 10:16:45 GMT -6
it would probably hurt those of us who have spouses that work for non-small businesses.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 16, 2017 10:27:36 GMT -6
it would probably hurt those of us who have spouses that work for non-small businesses. Large companies will go from 33 to 20%. Child tax credits go from 1k to 1600. I'm thinking this will definitely help stimulate the economy. More money in pockets across the board usually helps to do that. What is your specific concern with it?
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Post by EmRR on Nov 16, 2017 10:47:30 GMT -6
No large company pays an effective rate of 33%, they already pay less than 20% on average.
I expect any savings on the tax end will be vastly offset to the negative by the effects on health insurance premiums for the self employed.
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Post by jakeharris on Nov 16, 2017 10:58:31 GMT -6
Trickle down golden shower...
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Post by 79sg on Nov 16, 2017 11:01:13 GMT -6
First, there is a larger percentage of companies that have "net" tax rates in the single digits approaching zero. There are many multinationals that hold their cash in other countries enabling them to pay as little tax as possible. The proposed tax cut in its current form is looking to reduce the mortgage interest deduction, etc. This is a big sticking point at the moment. At the end of the day debating it doesn't matter for a few reasons (there are more), 1. We cannot do anything about it. 2. It will never be in our best interest because we do not make sizeable enough political contributions 3. They just don't give a shit. I happen to excel at mathematics but this is simple math, here you go: Tax Revenues = $2,700,000,000,000.00 Federal Budget = $4,000,000,000,000.00 So TR - FB = X, in this case the answer is ($1,300,000,000,000.00) Question for the day: If you are spending $1.3 TRILLION dollars more than you bring in how exactly do you cut taxes and reduce revenue? If you believe that it will be offset by a reduction in spending, I have have some swamp land in Florida that's for sale
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Post by joseph on Nov 16, 2017 11:18:00 GMT -6
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Nov 16, 2017 11:30:30 GMT -6
it would probably hurt those of us who have spouses that work for non-small businesses. Large companies will go from 33 to 20%. Child tax credits go from 1k to 1600. I'm thinking this will definitely help stimulate the economy. More money in pockets across the board usually helps to do that. What is your specific concern with it? I don't have any kids and we make less than 150k annually. Did you read that Washington Post article?
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 16, 2017 12:24:02 GMT -6
If anyone seriously that these tax cuts will in any way stimulate the economy I'd like to have some of what they're smoking.
Tax cuts for the rich and corporations NEVER "trickle down" to help employees, consumers, the economy, anybody/thing that isn't already so rich that they don't need any help. This has been PROVEN mltiple times already. Rich people don't get rich by giving money away. What it WILL do is send medical costs through the roof, putting a heavy burden on families, the working class, the middle class, owners of small businesses, and, especially, the elderly, who will start dying in increased number due to unaffordable medical care.
But what do you expect when you elect as president a man who has a documented history of fattening his own coffers by bankrupting one business after another? Why on earth would anyone NOT expect him to do the same thing to the entire country if given a chance?
An aside - when I was contemplating relocating to Nashville a little over a year ago, the unavailable of adequate medical programs was a major factor in my decision to stay in California. A lot things about this state may suck but at least we try to take care of our people. I shudder to think what the state of medical care will be in the South if this tax bill passes.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 16, 2017 12:34:55 GMT -6
it would probably hurt those of us who have spouses that work for non-small businesses. Large companies will go from 33 to 20%. Child tax credits go from 1k to 1600. I'm thinking this will definitely help stimulate the economy. More money in pockets across the board usually helps to do that. What is your specific concern with it? What's this "across the board" stuff? There is no "across the board" in this bill. It dumps money into the pockets of the rich, where it will stay. That's how they got rich in the first place - by holding on to every penny they can and spending as little of it as possible. What, you think giving them MORE MONEY is going to somehow miraculously change their the behavior? You might well expect a lion to not eat antelope. And most large companies don't pay taxes on most of their profits anyway - it gets shipped out of the country to tax havens. Same thing with the extremely wealthy. What we REALLY need is to clamp down on tax evasion. THAT will really stimulate the economy and benefit everybody - except the crooks, of course.
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Post by ragan on Nov 16, 2017 12:46:14 GMT -6
Large companies will go from 33 to 20%. Child tax credits go from 1k to 1600. I'm thinking this will definitely help stimulate the economy. More money in pockets across the board usually helps to do that. What is your specific concern with it? What's this "across the board" stuff? There is no "across the board" in this bill. It dumps money into the pockets of the rich, where it will stay. That's how they got rich in the first place - by holding on to every penny they can and spending as little of it as possible. What, you think giving them MORE MONEY is going to somehow miraculously change their the behavior? You might well expect a lion to not eat antelope. And most large companies don't pay taxes on most of their profits anyway - it gets shipped out of the country to tax havens. Same thing with the extremely wealthy. What we REALLY need is to clamp down on tax evasion. THAT will really stimulate the economy and benefit everybody - except the crooks, of course. You could also lower corporate tax rates a lot and still raise more revenue if you did that (clamp down on evasion). Corporations love to publicly moan about paying 30-some-odd-% when they know, of course, as does anyone who cares to look at the numbers, that their effective rate is 15-20% less than sticker price because they can evade taxes with impunity. You could stop the cheating and still remain revenue neutral or even have a revenue increase with a much lower tax rate. They don’t want that of course because it’s their job to be as profitable as possible and cheating on taxes is very good business. I don’t blame them. If they can do it, they will. Just like I use everything in my power to pay as little tax as I can. But yeah, the phoned in “guys I pay a 47% income tax rate!!!!” from super wealthy is comically fraudulent. How much of the money you make is “income” Big Guy? Oh, what’s that? About 5% and the rest is capital gains taxed at 17% or so? Cry me a river. I paid a higher rate than that as a self-employed window cleaner making $45k a year. There’s a lot of bullshit to sift through. Coming from every conceivable angle. I live in an ultra liberal area so I get the other side of the bullshit-coin more often. Oh, you’ll fix everything if we just give you a shitload more money??? Sure, yeah makes perfect sense. You’re doing a bang-up job with the money we’re already sending in.
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Post by Bender on Nov 16, 2017 13:13:01 GMT -6
What we REALLY need is to clamp down on tax evasion. THAT will really stimulate the economy and benefit everybody - except the crooks, of course. Corporations love to publicly moan about paying 30-some-odd-% when they know, of course, as does anyone who cares to look at the numbers, that their effective rate is 15-20% less than sticker price because they can evade taxes with impunity. And yet the paradise papers aren't the main headline daily..
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Post by ragan on Nov 16, 2017 13:15:12 GMT -6
Corporations love to publicly moan about paying 30-some-odd-% when they know, of course, as does anyone who cares to look at the numbers, that their effective rate is 15-20% less than sticker price because they can evade taxes with impunity. And yet the paradise papers aren't the main headline daily.. Nope. Neither are the dozen other “Big Scoop” stories of that sort that come and go throughout the years.
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Post by m03 on Nov 16, 2017 13:20:31 GMT -6
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 16, 2017 13:35:06 GMT -6
It passed the house by a decent margin. We will see what happens. I remain hopeful.
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Post by joseph on Nov 16, 2017 13:36:14 GMT -6
They even want to tax tuition and get rid of the waivers.
How is that good for the economy and job creation?!
China will eat us alive if we don't wise up.
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Post by joseph on Nov 16, 2017 13:55:44 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 16, 2017 18:10:10 GMT -6
Unfortunately, the tax breaks will mostly affect the richest people positively, they'll throw a small bone or two to the working people so they can say, "see we helped the middle class too". Meanwhile, they'll gut programs that help the neediest, like school lunches or teachers deducting pencils they have to buy for students. Your health care will become an even bigger mess. And then, after time passes, you'll look at the larger statistics years later, and the income redistribution will show the richest got more rich, and the average folks got a lower standard of living.
Trusting a guy who used bankruptcy four times to cheat people who performed honest service, who cheated everyone he could anytime he could, and called it winning isn't a smart move. I actually know people this happened to, so it's not fake news. He's proven without a doubt he can't be trusted.
To me, it isn't a left or right thing anymore, it's a right or wrong thing. They've been promising it will "trickle down" for 40 years now, so why would it work now?
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Post by svart on Nov 16, 2017 18:14:14 GMT -6
Now I see why some of you are recordists and not economists..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 16, 2017 18:17:01 GMT -6
If being an economist means lying about tax breaks for corporations helping create prosperity, which it hasn't yet, then I'm glad I'm no economist. There's no way to rationalize spending a trillion dollars in Iraq and then say we can't feed hungry kids because we don't have the money.
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Post by ragan on Nov 16, 2017 18:23:57 GMT -6
Now I see why some of you are recordists and not economists.. WHICH ONES???
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Post by winetree on Nov 16, 2017 18:47:42 GMT -6
Unfortunately, the tax breaks will mostly affect the richest people positively, they'll throw a small bone or two to the working people so they can say, "see we helped the middle class too". Meanwhile, they'll gut programs that help the neediest, like school lunches or teachers deducting pencils they have to buy for students. Your health care will become an even bigger mess. And then, after time passes, you'll look at the larger statistics years later, and the income redistribution will show the richest got more rich, and the average folks got a lower standard of living. Trusting a guy who used bankruptcy four times to cheat people who performed honest service, who cheated everyone he could anytime he could, and called it winning isn't a smart move. I actually know people this happened to, so it's not fake news. He's proven without a doubt he can't be trusted. To me, it isn't a left or right thing anymore, it's a right or wrong thing. They've been promising it will "trickle down" for 40 years now, so why would it work now? Is this Politics?
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Post by EmRR on Nov 16, 2017 19:20:54 GMT -6
Why, the whole thread, no doubt.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 16, 2017 21:25:34 GMT -6
The idea Medicaid is for "the poor" is BS. Medicaid is what you go on when your Medicare or Medicare disability co-pays have bankrupted you. Medicare disability is what you go on after a few weeks in the hospital. The net result will be to force the elderly onto their children's' care and that erosion of the middle class as customers could easily crash the economy.
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