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Post by indiehouse on Nov 9, 2017 14:34:12 GMT -6
How are you guys matching RMS levels when doing A/B comparisons? I want to avoid the louder is better syndrome. Even a 1db difference could skew results. I've been using the bx_meter plug from PA. It has an RMS reading, though it's a constantly moving target.
Any better way?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 9, 2017 15:06:58 GMT -6
I've been curious about that too. When I compare mics, I usually record different tracks. I try to make them even volume, but it's difficult.
Doing the mics right next to each other is OK too, but that has it's own issues. I prefer to put the mics in exactly the same position instead of right next to each other which an skew results. Neither way is perfect, but level matching wold sure help.
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Post by ragan on Nov 9, 2017 15:51:09 GMT -6
How are you guys matching RMS levels when doing A/B comparisons? I want to avoid the louder is better syndrome. Even a 1db difference could skew results. I've been using the bx_meter plug from PA. It has an RMS reading, though it's a constantly moving target. Any better way? Whenever possible, I just normalize the two pieces of Audio to whatever RMS I want. Like -22 or something reasonable. |
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Post by wiz on Nov 9, 2017 16:40:47 GMT -6
Honestly.... I do it by ear.
I put them in seperate tracks in logic and adjust the volume of one against the other.
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by jampa on Nov 9, 2017 22:28:16 GMT -6
I use REAPER and the SWS extensions pack - then, action: set loudness to "x" LUFS
gives me a ballpark
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Post by jeromemason on Nov 10, 2017 1:10:10 GMT -6
IK multimedia has a meter that does a really great job at keeping a constant RMS, it's what I use and it's never once let me down. All the IK multimedia plugins are great.
Also Hofa's meter is equally as good. I use it a lot as well. Many different options for metering, also lets you adjust the L/R M/S if you're in a pinch or hurry. Great plugin.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 3:10:18 GMT -6
Like Reaper, Mixbus also has an option to normalize to a specific loudness level. Pretty useful function.
Loudness is a perceived value, so the RMS volume is not really sufficient due to it's unweighted nature (think Fletcher/Munroe, psychoacustics).
So the best bet for fair comparison in terms of sound for now might be EBU R128 which uses loudness units in relation to fullscale for measurement, striving for a target value of -23 LUFS +/-1 LU.
But still, many pop music productions still have pretty high loudness values i.e. small dynamic range and normalization to -0.3 to -0.1dB FS. So level matching is only for spectral/sound comparison, but still, louder is perceived "better" psychoacoustically. Don't know if this factor will change substancially due to streaming services using EBU R128 guideline and eliminate the use of loudness war weapons. Really? I doubt this will happen. Best bet is popular productions with high dynamic range that are used as reference for others, in some genres the trend to higher dynamic range again is existing. Especially, where sound was extremely compromised due to high loudness demands. There obviously is a pain level that the artists do not accept anymore....
But i guess it is still a long way to go....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 10, 2017 8:10:46 GMT -6
Like Wiz, I put the two tracks next to each other in Logic and listen for the parts that are nearly identical, then I watch the peak level readings and try to match them on those parts. It works well, but it's not perfect. Normalizing seems like a decent option.
Jerome, which plug-in of IK Multimedia were you refering to?
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Post by swurveman on Nov 10, 2017 8:48:19 GMT -6
How are you guys matching RMS levels when doing A/B comparisons? I want to avoid the louder is better syndrome. Even a 1db difference could skew results. I've been using the bx_meter plug from PA. It has an RMS reading, though it's a constantly moving target. Any better way? Wavelab MetaNormalizer. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 10, 2017 9:55:42 GMT -6
Are none of you guys using PT? Perhaps not??? AudioSuite plugin "Gain". Matches files to either Peak or RMS. Simple, works perfectly. No guessing involved. Recommended.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 11:50:46 GMT -6
Never match by RMS. Never match by LUFS integrated. Match by ear. My Crookwood console allows level matching A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H, each with its own button, with each source changeable in +/- 1/4 dB increments. It's the only way. LUFS way better than RMS or VU or peak, if you absolutely HAVE to look at the numbers, but it's still not always accurate to the human ear.
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Post by christopher on Nov 11, 2017 18:41:40 GMT -6
I like to put one louder than the other, listen for a good minute or two before I A/B. A/B a few times. Then trade volume levels so the other track louder, listen for a good minute or two, then A/B a few times. While listening I'm just checking for balance but also think to myself: can I enjoy this? Do I want to keep listening?
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Post by dandeurloo on Nov 11, 2017 21:31:44 GMT -6
I match using a single peaks on the tracks to be A/B'd by using the PT meters. That seems to be the best way for me.
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Post by spindrift on Nov 11, 2017 21:51:16 GMT -6
I just make sure the track that I want to win is always a touch louder. Works every time! Haven’t failed an A/B test yet.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 3:42:21 GMT -6
For me, in mastering, it's better to make the original mix a little bit louder when A/Bing. Then, if the mastered version STILL sounds better, you know you are genuinely improving things.
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