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Post by mrholmes on Nov 7, 2017 6:07:00 GMT -6
When it comes to solo acoustic guitar I grab in 99% of the cases my KM 184. At the time they are at Neumann for checking - after 12 years.
As bridge I grabed a pair of Røde NT5s.
Did a quick dirty take with one of them. The diffrence in performance is greater than the diffrence which mic I use.
I could argue and say the air band is a bit shrill. But the dynamics below 5 khz are as good as with the KMs if not more sensitive.
Given the price - a quarter of the KMs 184 - I will keep them....sorry Neumann.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/andreasoberholz/rode-nt5-test
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 7, 2017 8:17:17 GMT -6
I usually find the top end of them make the mic useless for me whenever I try to use them.
But - I will generally grab a 451 before the km184. The 451 is the best all around Sdc in the price range imo.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 7, 2017 9:38:49 GMT -6
I usually find the top end of them make the mic useless for me whenever I try to use them. But - I will generally grab a 451 before the km184. The 451 is the best all around Sdc in the price range imo. I think its not too bad and the shrill thing I am sure I can find better spots for the NT5.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 7, 2017 10:34:59 GMT -6
I usually find the top end of them make the mic useless for me whenever I try to use them. But - I will generally grab a 451 before the km184. The 451 is the best all around Sdc in the price range imo. I think its not too bad and the shrill thing I am sure I can find better spots for the NT5. It’s the beauty of making music - we all have our own ways of getting where we want to be and none of them are wrong! 👍🏻
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 7, 2017 10:41:54 GMT -6
Terry Manning has mentioned many times how much he likes the NT-4.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 7, 2017 11:13:27 GMT -6
When it comes to solo acoustic guitar I grab in 99% of the cases my KM 184. At the time they are at Neumann for checking - after 12 years. As bridge I grabed a pair of Røde NT5s. Did a quick dirty take with one of them. The diffrence in performance is greater than the diffrence which mic I use. I could argue and say the air band is a bit shrill. But the dynamics below 5 khz are as good as with the KMs if not more sensitive. Given the price - a quarter of the KMs 184 - I will keep them....sorry Neumann. https%3A//soundcloud.com/andreasoberholz/rode-nt5-test Yeah, but that's a KM 184 you're using as a reference - a mic with a rep for a somewhat nasty high end/presence range, widely regarded as one of Neumann's dogs.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 7, 2017 11:50:11 GMT -6
To be true the TOP end of the KM 184 is way smoother than the one by the NT5s. And if you dont like top end at all the KM 184 reacts to the EQ like nothing else I know... I love the 184 for acoustics. Given the price the NT5s are price performace winner in my ears. If someone asks me next time waht to buy... I will mention the NT5s
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Post by notneeson on Nov 7, 2017 12:31:05 GMT -6
For me the KM184 is the SM57 of SDCs. I like both the KM84 and the Beyer m201 better, but I can make my clients grin ear-to-ear with either one.
[Corrected.]
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 7, 2017 13:35:10 GMT -6
The new Soyuz 0-13 FET SDC is under $600, and it beat KM84's at my place every time. KM84's were my benchmark holy grail mics before I tried the Soyuz.
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 7, 2017 14:41:25 GMT -6
Here's Terry at 1:39 talking about the NT-4. nohum.ru/video/-pPhr4-PvEMIt isn't the first time I've heard him mention having 3 of them. I'm sure he likes the NT6 also.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 7, 2017 15:14:48 GMT -6
Very few modern mics are truelly terrible, most of the million and one SDC's suffer from the sameness blahs, because they are the same thing with a different label. Today we are blessed with enough affordable options that we can afford to hate what we don't care for, there was a time not long ago When a 451 or SM81 was just below the KM84 on most of our lust lists. The world of SDC's is a wonderful place to find your own way and tone, be adventurous try both the usual suspects most have written off or never had the guts to try. My personal faves are the Sony's the Milabs, Calrecs and others bring their own personality to the party. So yeah, if a NT5 can't bring something to the party, it's probably not the mic, now if it's the right thing is another matter.
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Post by rowmat on Nov 7, 2017 15:30:03 GMT -6
The majority of 'affordable' SDC's nearly always hype the high end. That combined with some proximity effect when micing say an acoustic guitar and you have a smiley face EQ off the bat. What I really like about the KM84 is its clear, focused midrange that doesn't get lost in the hype of many other SDC's.
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Post by reddirt on Nov 7, 2017 17:00:20 GMT -6
i've never used an NT 5 but Bruce Swedien as well had good things to say about them at one time if i remember right.
Rowmat is right about the mids of the KM84 IMO which is why it can be an excellent vox mic in the right situation,
I have a 451 I bought new in 1985 which is a terrific mic also and which again can be great on vox, in the same quality area as the 84 just a different flavour.
My thoughts are that Rode generally has been the victim of the internet exponential put down syndrome; that is, one bad report turns into 3, into ten etc, some fueled by a mis-perception they are built in China. - also wasn't helped by the boss Peter Freedman spruiking things as if they were god's gift at one time. They are robustly built and the company has been excellent for the one issue I've had with an NT 2000. Definitely good mid range-ish offerings however if you want to drive a Merc then you buy a Merc ( or a Chandler ( or a Soyuz?))
Cheers, Ross
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Post by ericn on Nov 7, 2017 17:52:01 GMT -6
i've never used an NT 5 but Bruce Swedien as well had good things to say about them at one time if i remember right. Rowmat is right about the mids of the KM84 IMO which is why it can be an excellent vox mic in the right situation, I have a 451 I bought new in 1985 which is a terrific mic also and which again can be great on vox, in the same quality area as the 84 just a different flavour. My thoughts are that Rode generally has been the victim of the internet exponential put down syndrome; that is, one bad report turns into 3, into ten etc, some fueled by a mis-perception they are built in China. - also wasn't helped by the boss Peter Freedman spruiking things as if they were god's gift at one time. They are robustly built and the company has been excellent for the one issue I've had with an NT 2000. Definitely good mid range-ish offerings however if you want to drive a Merc then you buy a Merc ( or a Chandler ( or a Soyuz?)) Cheers, Ross [ Rode has been their own worst enemy in so many ways ! They also are on their way to takeing over the low end A for V market. Driving a Merc, is great fun till that lady in an f150 comes out of nowhere and totals that lovely little super charged AMG ! Though back in the automotive real world you soon learn buying new rear tires isn't normal!
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Post by Guitar on Nov 7, 2017 19:22:29 GMT -6
Yeah, sounds a little out of control on the top end.
I know Josh Homme really likes the RODE SDC, so that's a thing. I love Josh Homme.
I am more of a KM184 guy myself, it's the best SDC I have owned. Also owned a vintage 451 CK1 E pair but preffered the 184.
These days, on acoustic guitar, I prefer a ribbon microphone. I've always had trouble loving SDC on acoustics. Closest I've got to perfect was the KM184. Unfortunately I sold it a couple years ago and don't have any now.
I do like SDC, I use them in XY on drum overheads. I have a Shure KSM137 pair for that. Ribbons go in front of the kit in a spaced pair.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 7, 2017 21:08:18 GMT -6
Rode, in general seems like a mixed bag.
I did a location sound interview gig with a Rode shotgun recently and it was quite good for that application.
My K2 on the other hand, is mostly just ok. Have liked it on female vocalists.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 8, 2017 5:48:47 GMT -6
Yeah, sounds a little out of control on the top end. I know Josh Homme really likes the RODE SDC, so that's a thing. I love Josh Homme. I am more of a KM184 guy myself, it's the best SDC I have owned. Also owned a vintage 451 CK1 E pair but preffered the 184. These days, on acoustic guitar, I prefer a ribbon microphone. I've always had trouble loving SDC on acoustics. Closest I've got to perfect was the KM184. Unfortunately I sold it a couple years ago and don't have any now. I do like SDC, I use them in XY on drum overheads. I have a Shure KSM137 pair for that. Ribbons go in front of the kit in a spaced pair. True yeah did yesterday evenig a few more rounds with it and it seems the top end smoothers out the farer I move the mic away. Overall the top end dynamics are going nuts a little ... But hey its 200 bucks... Think its not bad for this
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Post by Ward on Nov 8, 2017 7:08:14 GMT -6
The KM84 is the benchmark these days and has been for 30 years for one very good reason: It is idiot proof. You (pretty much) can't get a bad sound out of one.
But if you want jaw-dropping? KM54, KM56 or east Neumann M582 with the SDC cardioid capsule.
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2017 9:40:58 GMT -6
The KM84 is the benchmark these days and has been for 30 years for one very good reason: It is idiot proof. You (pretty much) can't get a bad sound out of one. But if you want jaw-dropping? KM54, KM56 or east Neumann M582 with the SDC cardioid capsule. Shhhishh these are going up as I type!
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 8, 2017 10:08:09 GMT -6
The M582 there are two across my street by a nneighbor her father worked at the east German BS. She wont sell them becasue they remind her on the old man...
I told her her - your dad would be pleased if they get used again.
But no she wont sell... GRRRR
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Post by Ward on Nov 8, 2017 10:40:40 GMT -6
The M582 there are two across my street by a nneighbor her farther worked at the east German BS. She wont sell them becasue they remind her on the old man... I told her her - your would be pleased if they get used again. But no she wont sell... GRRRR Ask her to leave them to you in her will!!
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2017 13:05:14 GMT -6
The M582 there are two across my street by a nneighbor her father worked at the east German BS. She wont sell them becasue they remind her on the old man... I told her her - your dad would be pleased if they get used again. But no she wont sell... GRRRR At the very least see if she will you borrow them from time to time.
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Post by rowmat on Nov 8, 2017 13:54:28 GMT -6
The KM84 is the benchmark these days and has been for 30 years for one very good reason: It is idiot proof. You (pretty much) can't get a bad sound out of one. But if you want jaw-dropping? KM54, KM56 or east Neumann M582 with the SDC cardioid capsule. I find the KM54 can be a little too 'Hi Fi' at times. It's a bit like having a mic with a Kush Clariphonic built in. Sometimes it's just more 'Hi Fi' than I want or need, however recording to analog is where these nickel diaphragm mics probably really come into their own. For certain applications though the KM54 is untouchable. It's just the KM84 is hardly ever the wrong mic on anything (although it does require industrial strength pop filtering) and pretty much always sounds like the source.
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Post by drbill on Nov 8, 2017 14:51:04 GMT -6
I've got the following SDC's, and have not used the Rodes, but can comment on the 184's - and their relationship to their brethren KM series.
3-KM84's 2-KM86's 2-KM53's 2-KM140's 3-Vintage C451's - card, omni, etc. 2-Gefell 692/M70's 2-Joly 012's - all patterns + the LDC K47H head (!!)
And at one point, I had 184's. Of all the above, the last ones I'd reach for would be the 184's. The 140's I bought for a specific reason recently (Standup Bass) but the neumann 100 (transformerless) series don't really do it for me. The 184 was cool - UNTIL I put it up against the 84's. That was the end of 184's for me.
The KM84's were cool until I bought a pair of KM86's. That pretty much signaled the end of KM84's for me. I still keep em cause often I need several pairs of SDC's. It might be because the pair of KM86's I bought were only use in orchestral situations on Harp, and came extremely pristine. So that could be the diff between them and the 84's which have been used, but taken care of. OR, it could be (I suspect) the head basket arrangement differences. Either way, the KM84's rarely get pulled now unless for snare, toms, etc..
Then came the KM53's. I'll agree and disagree with Rowmat. I agree that the KM5x series is super "hi-fi", and jaw dropping compared to the ss versions. Personally, I'd call it hyper detailed, but I'm sure were both talking about the same thing. For me, for close or close-ish mic-ing, the KM86 gets right in the sweet spot with less detail, and killer tone - so I end up using the 86's the most these days. I disagree with Rowmatt in that the KM54 is untouchable. The KM53 is equal or or perhaps better IMO. The KM53 is - for me - generally better as I can get it in super close with no proximity, and the pattern is not super-omni, so I have none of the issues in close mic-ing that I have with a card pattern. In a lot of ways, it's the perfect microphone. AS LONG AS - you don't mind the detail. It has that KM thing that the 84's and 86's do that allows you to really "dial in" the amount of room you want quite easily. And for distance mic-ing......ahhhhh, the sweetest.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 8, 2017 15:44:24 GMT -6
The M582 there are two across my street by a nneighbor her father worked at the east German BS. She wont sell them becasue they remind her on the old man... I told her her - your dad would be pleased if they get used again. But no she wont sell... GRRRR At the very least see if she will you borrow them from time to time. I guess I know the answer already...but I will try this too...
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