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Post by LesC on Jan 18, 2014 20:35:47 GMT -6
I apologize for another one of my long-winded posts, but I'm ready to act on this, and I would appreciate any comments, or if there are obviously better alternatives that I'm missing.
I currently have the following setup: an RME UFX as my USB interface and for latency-free FX while tracking, a Burl B2 ADC, and a Dangerous Source DAC/monitor controller. I run Windows 7, Cubase 7.5, and I rarely record more than one track at a time.
I'd like to add a high-quality DA-AD, so that I can play with using some outboard on the mix/master bus. I'm thinking about getting a Lynx Hilo, which has 2 DACs (plus a third for it's headphone output) and an ADC, and can be connected to the UFX via ADAT.
Question 1: Are the convertors in the Hilo a real step-up from the UFX/Apollo class of convertors? If not, then I may as well just use the UFX convertors until I can afford a significant upgrade.
Question 2: I've found RME Windows drivers to be very stable for the last 12 years. Are the Lynx Windows drivers as stable? If so, I can trade-in the UFX and save some money. I would also get something cheap for FX, maybe a Lexicon MX300.
Question 3: Are the Hilo DACs in the same league as the Dangerous convertors? If so, I would consider getting rid of the Dangerous Source and replacing it with a Drawmer MC2.1, which has better monitor control functionality but no DA.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 18, 2014 20:54:14 GMT -6
I've owned one...surprise, surprise It's pretty damn awesome. As far as DA goes, it's absolutely pristine. My question, though, is it a bit of overkill for just running out to outboard gear? In fact, I would seriously think the DA is better than the Dangerous. You would have a shit ton of money in three fine converters...I really think you'd be better served using what you've got clocked by the Burl and spending your money on another part of the chain. YMMV...
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Post by LesC on Jan 18, 2014 21:20:04 GMT -6
Thanks for your quick reply John! You've confirmed what I've been hoping. Strangely, if the answer to all three of my questions is "yes", then financially it's about a wash. Selling an RME UFX and a Dangerous Source would just about pay for a Lynx Hilo and a Drawmer MC2.1.
I'd still like to find out if anybody has experience running Hilo's USB interface on Windows.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 18, 2014 22:47:07 GMT -6
I used it on Mac...it was solid...
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Post by LesC on Jan 18, 2014 23:06:07 GMT -6
By the way John, why would the Hilo be overkill for running the mix to outboard gear? I would have thought that for mixing and/or mastering you would want the best possible DA-AD loop. Many people seem to use high-end Lavry, Burl, Forssel, Weiss, and various others for this purpose. I thought maybe the Hilo would get me a little beyond the mid-level RME's of the world. As for spending my money on other things, unfortunately I'm very good at that. This year I plan to get a Heritage DMA-73, a Warm WA76, and possibly another good mic (I'm thinking from Shannon).
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Post by lolo on Jan 18, 2014 23:14:22 GMT -6
Di you use the source just for monitoring, or D/A conversion?
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Post by LesC on Jan 18, 2014 23:53:21 GMT -6
Di you use the source just for monitoring, or D/A conversion? I use the D/A conversion just for monitoring, connected AES-EBU to the UFX. I would like to use the D/A > Outboard > Burl A/D, but the (lack of) output flexibility doesn't allow the "Selected Line Out" jacks to carry anything other than the speaker selection. This means that I would have to mix with headphones if I wanted this functionality. Too bad, the Source could have been so much more useful with a bit more flexibility. The ultimate would be for the "Selected Line Out" jacks to be switchable between speaker selection, headphone selection, or D/A. Unfortunately, even though the Source has two D/A's, one of them is dedicated to a mostly useless USB interface, so there is so much more functionality possible than currently exists. Hopefully, Dangerous will have the foresight to consult with me before finalizing the design of their next product
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Post by lolo on Jan 19, 2014 0:50:40 GMT -6
This is my issue with the source too. I love mine, but wish I could use both the monitoring and DAC at the same time.
Actually asked about this again last week in a email to Dangerous.
For me there is 2 options. Keep the source for monitoring, and get another 2 channel Dac for patching outboard. OR use the Source for its DAC and get another monitor controller. Maybe a Kush main gain.
For DAC's I'm considering a Ross martin DAC. Knowing how good the Ross martin ADC sounds, Im sure the DAC will rock.
Still the source is a great piece. Wish it was more flexible
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2014 1:02:56 GMT -6
By the way John, why would the Hilo be overkill for running the mix to outboard gear? I would have thought that for mixing and/or mastering you would want the best possible DA-AD loop. Many people seem to use high-end Lavry, Burl, Forssel, Weiss, and various others for this purpose. I thought maybe the Hilo would get me a little beyond the mid-level RME's of the world. As for spending my money on other things, unfortunately I'm very good at that. This year I plan to get a Heritage DMA-73, a Warm WA76, and possibly another good mic (I'm thinking from Shannon). Well, you're right...overkill wasn't the right word...It would be badass...I just know for me, I can't afford to have a Burl and the Symphony, it's gotta be one or the other...
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 1:12:20 GMT -6
Lolo, I've been having similar thoughts and I also contacted Dangerous, to no avail. Even thought about buying a second Source, and using one as a DA only. For that quality DA, $900 seems reasonable. Also, take a look at the Drawmer MC2.1. I haven't had a chance to try it (in Canada you pretty well can't try anything), but indications are that it's similar quality to the Dangerous, better monitoring features, less expensive, but no DA. The Main Gain seems good too, I just don't like the form factor.
Still, the Hilo seems like my best DA option, either keeping the Source or changing to the Drawmer. Music is not a primary source of income for me, it's mostly a hobby that I love, so I don't have to justify or rationalize spending crazy money on it. Fortunately, I have an understanding wife.
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 1:15:18 GMT -6
John, I was wondering why you edited my post instead of replying. Now I know.
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Post by lolo on Jan 19, 2014 2:17:41 GMT -6
This was Dangerous's reply to me.
"Subject: Re: Dangerous Source HI Laurence, If you want to use the Source D/A for your main D/A, you can use the "selected line output" to feed your stereo processing gear, and then run the output of that back into your DAW for recording.
However, you won't be able to monitor the final mix through the speakers from the Source while doing this, because the selected line output is fed by whichever input is selected. That means if you tried to monitor via the speakers while also sending the line out back to your DAW, you'd get a feedback loop.
This means that in order to use the Source D/A for mixing/mastering, you have to either monitor the return from the DAW via the headphone section of the Source, or you need a separate monitor controller to monitor it. If you were to only monitor the digital input of the Source while doing this, you'd be hearing the mix before it hits any of the outboard gear or goes back into the DAW, so that is not the best option.
Hope that helps, Mike"
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 2:46:04 GMT -6
I also asked them about the possibility of a mod so that "Selected Line Output" would always be the output of the D/A instead of the selected speaker input. Seems simple, but this was their last response:
Hey Les, I have confirmed that we do not give out schematics- sorry. Also, got more info on what you'd be looking at on the insides- the Source uses a 4 layer circuit board, and the audio traces are on the inner layers, so it would be near impossible to make that mod.
Take Care, Mike
I'm an electrical engineer, I was going to take a look at the guts of the Source to see if I could figure something out. But rather than risk voiding the warranty, I think I'll just sell it and get something more suitable for my requirements.
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Post by lolo on Jan 19, 2014 2:51:39 GMT -6
Still dig it for the monitoring, and i'm sure the D/A would kill.
Reckon i'll keep it for monitoring and just get another DAC.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2014 8:56:04 GMT -6
John, I was wondering why you edited my post instead of replying. Now I know. Yeah - sorry! Here's what the page looks like for me - I keep hitting the edit button instead of quote and it looks like I'm up to Gearslutian tactics.
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Post by watchtower on Jan 19, 2014 23:21:30 GMT -6
Funny, I've been thinking a Burl B2 ADC and Dangerous Source would be a sweet AD and DA setup, and then I realized getting a Hilo would be a good bit cheaper, and seems to have all the same functionality. I couldn't imagine the Hilo having worse conversion than Burl or Dangerous. It's probably on par if not even better (assuming you seek transparent), but that's JUST A GUESS
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2014 23:27:43 GMT -6
The AD of the Burl and the Hilo are pretty polar opposite ideas I think. Just depends on what you like. The Hilo being tied to software like that - with the touch screen and everything will most likely be obsolete in a few years, though.
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 23:36:33 GMT -6
You still might need a monitor controller, unless you're only using one set of monitors. Hilo better than Burl, I'm not sure, but all my statements in this thread are guesses until I get my hands on a Hilo. I just have to figure out if I'm comfortable enough with the Hilo Windows drivers to trade in the UFX. That would save a pile of money!
In your situation, if I didn't already have the Burl, I would be thinking the same way as you and see if the Hilo by itself is sufficient.
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Post by watchtower on Jan 19, 2014 23:44:23 GMT -6
I only use one set of monitors, but I believe the Hilo is capable of feeding two sets of monitors. However, its ANALOG volume monitor control only controls the Monitor Outs and headphone level. The Line Out is DIGITALLY controlled, so you lose some resolution when controlling that second set of monitors. Of course, some argue that you really only need 8 bits to hear everything you need to hear in modern music.
The problem with grabbing a Hilo is I will also need some pres! I'm currently using a firewire interface for pres, conversion, monitor control (digital) and, ahem, interface. So, I have no analog pres to feed into the Hilo. The DA would be put to good use, though.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2014 23:48:45 GMT -6
the Apollo has all the features you're wanting...but I'm not sure the DA is that big a stepup...
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Post by watchtower on Jan 20, 2014 8:31:09 GMT -6
It's definitely enticing. JK, do you know if you can tap the pres on the Apollo before AD conversion?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 20, 2014 9:32:17 GMT -6
You mean use your Burl for AD and the Apollo as just a mic pre? Hmmm I don't know.
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Post by mulmany on Jan 20, 2014 10:38:51 GMT -6
Anyone look at the new old sound controllers? Saw War started carrying them.
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Post by watchtower on Jan 20, 2014 12:58:10 GMT -6
You mean use your Burl for AD and the Apollo as just a mic pre? Hmmm I don't know. Yeah, just wondering if you can patch the pres of an Apollo into a superior AD. Many interfaces do not feature true "Analog Thru" for inserts
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Post by lolo on Jan 23, 2014 19:43:09 GMT -6
Was kind of hoping for a high quality monitor controller/headphone amp that wont break the bank to be announced at Namm. Something in the lines of the Kush main gain. Then I'll start using the DAC on my source
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