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Post by notneeson on Oct 17, 2017 12:39:34 GMT -6
The 87ai is a great mic, works on almost everyone and everything. So in 10-20 years as the parts age then it will be "the one to have" Isn't that how all of this stuff goes. Yes, I think the price makes people want to criticize it. When you are bringing prospective clients into your studio I've yet to hear one say "oh...that's an 87ai, no thanks", usually it's "cool you have an 87". A little off topic so back to "tube vs solid state preamp". I just commented about the 87ai because I find the polarizing opinions of it humorous. Totally. I feel like, 15 years ago someone posted on recpit (probably Fletcher) that they preferred the UM70 to the 87ai. (Somebody def said something like this, I was there). In the intervening years the internet echo chamber has turned that into "the U87ai sucks," don't even try it. Now, is the price steep compared to many current offerings? Sure. I get that.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 17, 2017 13:10:45 GMT -6
Agree with both you guys, works great every time, can handle huge variety of sources as well as voices.. Yeah 2/10 ppl may sound better on a 47 or c12 but 8/10 won’t sound as good or as mix ready as the 87ai..
Also the Vintage one needs more gain to reach the same output so ppl think it’s more lush and colored when really it’s the extra 10db or so of class A discrete gain you’re adding to the signal..
Any other masterful experiences with tube gear to educate this toob noob 😂
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Post by adamjbrass on Oct 18, 2017 8:16:30 GMT -6
^ Try out the InnerTube Audio Retro-Kit for the 87...has EVEN MORE output level!!!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 18, 2017 15:05:05 GMT -6
The reason 87s were popular was because when the folks in front of the mikes were getting paid, there was no time for shooting out different mikes. An eq'd 87 is still hard to beat.
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Post by Ward on Oct 18, 2017 19:03:49 GMT -6
The reason 87s were popular was because when the folks in front of the mikes were getting paid, there was no time for shooting out different mikes. An eq'd 87 is still hard to beat. Mr, Olhsson, if you were to EQ an 87 to be somewhat more neutral, what would you do? What do you find to be the things you normally do to EQ an 87?
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 18, 2017 20:57:44 GMT -6
87s have a really present and forward upper midrange. As they say, sometimes it's the perfect vocal mic for a singer. Sometimes it's not.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 19, 2017 6:26:34 GMT -6
The reason 87s were popular was because when the folks in front of the mikes were getting paid, there was no time for shooting out different mikes. An eq'd 87 is still hard to beat. Mr, Olhsson, if you were to EQ an 87 to be somewhat more neutral, what would you do? What do you find to be the things you normally do to EQ an 87? I am not Mr. O obviously but this is what I do when necessary in 87ai. I do have a lot of experience with this mic and vox . This is my advice when running thru a solid state pre like a Neve or Little Devil Chandler/ Avedis Ma5... Cut 3-5khz around -3 To -5db with a tight bell if the singer voice is strident in that area.. If not boost with a wide q bell around 3khz ( 2/ 2.5/ 3.5 kHz is fine if eq has those instead ) The db increment varies depends on gain staging into pre and comp and room + voice. Then shelf the high end at 9khz -2 To - 3db into a class A solid state fet or opto/ tube comp, which smooths that puppy right out. Also a little 12db HPF up to about 125hz then with a tighter bell listen out for 150-400hz and carve if you need. The cl1b really helps the ai as well, really takes care of that 150-450hz range or at least the units I have used seem to thin the low mid pleasingly ..
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 19, 2017 11:50:05 GMT -6
The right eq. is a question of context in the mix. In the past singers were at least a foot back and that midrange helped more than it hurt. A Pultec tends to work well with them too.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 19, 2017 11:54:56 GMT -6
I don't think the 87ai sucks. Do people really say that outside of the purple place? Some do, yes.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 19, 2017 12:47:20 GMT -6
Need some opinion from those who know more about solid state be tube based preamps for recording and using for processing .... I am stuck between two preamps Locomotive Audio 286a and RTZ 9672 . Neither have line level operation built in so step down cables is a must imo to use for processing.. Idk I haven’t heard the 286a and it’s about $4/500 more than the RTZ and I don’t have much experience with tube based pres. Would the 286a be awesome for HipHop Rap POP Vocals? Also for coloring synth groups drum groups etc? I figured the 286a could provide more tonal options than the RTZ as far as line level based processing goes ( haven’t heard either in person ) ( Nashville shop sells both, may take a drive now that I’m whipping again ) I don’t have much experience with tube based products as well Keep your old sales pimp, John in mind
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2017 14:04:43 GMT -6
I don't think the 87ai sucks. Do people really say that outside of the purple place? Some do, yes. They don't suck they just always scream to me what mic would be a better choice!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 20, 2017 17:04:23 GMT -6
Ended up going with the RTZ 9762 Dual Combo pre Saving for a weight tank and audio scape gssl comp. Also, while I wait I wait for info on my wa76, I will be trying to save for Serpent audio Splice mk2
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 21, 2017 4:17:05 GMT -6
They don't suck they just always scream to me what mic would be a better choice! It is my suspicion that the newer, post Sennheiser Ais are not quiite as good as the older ones. I seem to recall Klaus saying that there have been several structural and/or electrical changes since the Ai was introduced but I can't absolutely swear to it.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2017 10:43:49 GMT -6
They don't suck they just always scream to me what mic would be a better choice! It is my suspicion that the newer, post Sennheiser Ais are not quiite as good as the older ones. I seem to recall Klaus saying that there have been several structural and/or electrical changes since the Ai was introduced but I can't absolutely swear to it. Yeah there has been a steady run towards how cheap can we make it & let's not forget the inconsistency of the capsules! The 87 has always been a good mic but for me it has always been even better at telling me what mic will be perfect on a source, go figure.
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