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Post by scumbum on May 2, 2017 9:45:55 GMT -6
Any of you guys use a spectrum analyzer when mixing or mastering ? Any Tips ?
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Post by svart on May 2, 2017 9:56:34 GMT -6
I'm not going to lie, I tried this many times over the years and I could never correlate any specific "look" of the FFT to any sort of specific sound of the mix. It really just shows the instrument's frequency ranges more than anything.
It kinda went like this:
I think the mids are too high in the guitar.. (Looks at SA, sees hump in mids) Ok, let me turn those down.. Now the bass has no cut, the drums lost attack.
Ok, now the highs look a little rolled off above 10K on the SA.. Boost the highs, now the guitars are too gritty, the cymbals are piercing, the vocals strident.
But damn does that spectrum look nice and flat!
Seriously though, I could never make it work since mixing and mastering is all about making space for each instrument in the mix, rather than making their amplitudes align.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,957
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Post by ericn on May 2, 2017 10:03:52 GMT -6
Pretty much completely useless for mixing, all you see is freq vs SPL and not what is contributing to it!
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Post by donr on May 2, 2017 11:34:01 GMT -6
You're gonna want that cowbell..
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Post by johneppstein on May 2, 2017 14:36:27 GMT -6
Any of you guys use a spectrum analyzer when mixing or mastering ? Any Tips ? Yeah, I've got a tip - EARS, NOT EYES!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,957
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Post by ericn on May 2, 2017 14:52:59 GMT -6
You're gonna want that cowbell.. Or a Cowbell curve?
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Post by stratboy on May 2, 2017 16:35:45 GMT -6
You're gonna want that cowbell.. This comes from one of the foremost cowbell utilization experts on the planet
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 2, 2017 21:48:25 GMT -6
I have deaf eyes and blind ears .... and a titanium leg
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Post by jin167 on May 2, 2017 23:12:47 GMT -6
during mixing/tracking stage spectrum analyser could be useful but not essential but mastering without a good analyser is like trying to walk around the house while blindfolded. Sure, you can find your way around if you get used to the blindfold but why not just remove it in the first place? Makes things easier for you.
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Post by massivemastering on May 3, 2017 1:11:10 GMT -6
I generally use meters to calibrate things. There are a few to choose from here including a set of Dorrough pretty meters to keep clients happy (and again, to calibrate the chain).
Spectrum analyzers -- Meh, I mean, if there's a particular frequency that's causing an issue somewhere and a spectrum analyzer helps you find it, there you go.
The only meter I concentrate on is the (Nugen, in this case) LUFS meter if I'm working on something that requires a particular number (usually film / broadcast stuff) -- as misleading as it may be sometimes, they're looking for specific numbers and the end product may not be accepted if that number is nailed.
(EDIT) Just read the above post and I have to disagree (respectfully, of course). The only time I ever click in a spectrum analyzer in session is -- well, basically almost never. If I felt the need for one, I'd find out why and fix the problem. I used to click in a FFT EQ (that happened to have a spectrum analyzer) for recordings with video whine -- Depending on what country it came from and the refresh rate, it could vary in frequency (from around 14.5-ish to 16-ish kHz) and I guess it was handy to just "see" the offending frequency when carving it out - Although the only reason I loaded it in the first place is because I heard it. Though thankfully (due to LCD / LED screens) recordings with VDO whine are few and far between these days (although occasionally, one might sneak through here and there).
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Post by scumbum on May 3, 2017 9:32:51 GMT -6
Yesterday I gave a spectrum analyzer a try to help me Master a song . I am no Mastering engineer at all , its like black magic to me . Anyways I think it turned out pretty good . Maybe you guys with better systems and ears can give a listen ? I copied the EQ curve of the Nirvana song In Bloom . Not exactly the same , but the overall frequency relationships . I looked at 20hz to around 200hz , then 200hz to 700 hz , then 700hz to 3K..........and looked at the rms difference to kinda figure out the curve . So if you have time , compare my song (Ramones Cover) with In Bloom . www.dropbox.com/s/fx66039y0ctm0d4/Beat%20on%20the%20smat%2016bit.wav?dl=0Sibilance is also a problem for me , I'm always fighting it . Let me know if theres too much sibilance . Theres one word in the first chorus "back" I'm gonna fix it sounds weird .
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Post by strangeways on May 6, 2017 14:36:15 GMT -6
I use the stock PT one on individual elements when I start setting up mics on bass/guitars. Not for any specific curve or anything, just so I can check to see where I have freq buildup i can already hear and figure out if i need to dial more highs or carve low/mids. I also will throw one on my master bus when i'm starting a mix just so I can get a perspective of where i can brighten guitars/cymbals and make sure bass isn't creating any lf peaks around 80-200hz.
I do find them useful, but it's essentially just another monitoring tool. It's a lot like that spot in the room with too much low end. It's not an absolute, but it's an added tool, once you figure out what to listen/look for.
d.
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Post by johneppstein on May 6, 2017 17:00:15 GMT -6
I use the stock PT one on individual elements when I start setting up mics on bass/guitars. Not for any specific curve or anything, just so I can check to see where I have freq buildup i can already hear and figure out if i need to dial more highs or carve low/mids. I also will throw one on my master bus when i'm starting a mix just so I can get a perspective of where i can brighten guitars/cymbals and make sure bass isn't creating any lf peaks around 80-200hz. I do find them useful, but it's essentially just another monitoring tool. Well, I guess that's OK as long as it doesn't become a crutch, but really you should work more on being able to determine that stuff by ear. What I generally do when looking for that sort of problem on something is identify the approximate range and set up a parametric eq on the channel set with a fairly narrow Q. They I put a hell of a boost on that frequency band and pan it up and down while listening to the source (track, whatever). I ignore the numbers. Numbers are a distraction (and they're seldom perfectly accurate unless you have really good gear, especially if you have pots, not switches.) You do that, you get to the point where the problem is, it'll jump right out and slap you in the face. At that point you stop panning your frequency because you've found it, dial back the gain on that band to flat, and start cutting and maybe adjusting the Q control if it's continuously variable until it sounds right. It's actually more accurate than a spectrum analyzer because analyzers are generally set up in 1/3 octave bands (which is what, about 4 notes? And most of those notes will register to some degree on two adjacent bands.) and this gives you pinpoint frequency accuracy, and it's acrtually faster once you get used to it. The spectrum anaylzer is useful to give the pahdsoosah's girlfriend something pretty to look at. And make sure to listen to your results out of solo. A tone that sounds great soloed very often sounds like hell in context, for one reason or another. Might want to fine tune your cut settings (amount and sometimes Q) in context. I sometimes use a similar technique to determine boost frequencies, too, but bossts usually don't seem to me to be so surgical in nature, for the most part. You'd probably find this useful on your cymbal boosts (at a more moderate Q), although I generally prefer to deal with that with mic placement, cymbal placement, or if possible, with choice of cymbals. Also a few judicious (and always diplomatic) words with the drummer can help a lot, especially if he's a pro. Well, not really because you can't compensate for a room resonance with EQ for reasons that go beyond the scope of this post or thread. But I get your meaning. <chuckle....> Once you figure out what to listen for you shouldn't need it!
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,957
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Post by ericn on May 6, 2017 17:36:55 GMT -6
Yep you have to understand the filters on any RTF or TEF to use them, as well as the filters of your EQ! Then you get a picture of how useless they are! The one thing they do well, show you LF garbage you don't hear using up your headroom ! I used to use 2 live on one nighters, one of the room one on the bus, it always amazed me how I would be told I got so much headroom. Pretty easy when you realize the amp is pushing all this stuff at 20hz but the sub only goes down to 50hz!
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Post by strangeways on May 6, 2017 22:16:47 GMT -6
Proof is in the pudding i guess. My mixes are sounding better. Faster.
And while all those techniques re:sweeping and using my ears are valuable for trouble shooting and sculpting, a little trick that works is just that. I've been on the same monitors for 15 years, and ive changed mixing environments at least 5 times, id say. All the rooms ive moved to have different nodes and sound anomalies, which i've attempted to understand and utilize. Ideally, i should invest $ in treatment for the 3 rooms i work in, but for now, that spectral crutch is teaching me some valuable ways to train my ears furthur. And i'm sure eventually ill develop a new trick to get me there even faster and prob see these analyzers as useless, much like you do.
As i said, its not anything i can use for any real critical decision making, but it offers a perspective that ive learned will speed up/steer my process.
Thanks for the tips, though. Appreciated and obviously sage advice.
D.
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