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Post by forgotteng on Apr 12, 2017 20:17:32 GMT -6
Today I was having some fun in the studio testing out some new gear acquisitions that I recently aquired. One of them being my Stam SA1073 pre and a Rode NTR ribbon mic. I often also play around with different mic placement scenarios in the context of a live capture with a strategic approach to mic bleed etc. So I had 2 of my students that wanted to play around with a song and play we did. We had about an hour and my student wanted some video footage too. All that to say I didn't have a lot of time to move mics and rethink approach etc. I definitely didn't have a chance to get better camera shots. So the point of my excitement was this.....
The first mix I put together quickly using plug ins in the box which consisted of Puigchild 660 comps and UAD 1081 EQ along with Fabfilter ProEQ2 to control some of my less than stellar mic placement issues. Buss Comp was Stam SA4000 and UAD Precision Maximizer to gain it up a bit. After listening back I felt like taking a different approach and working out of the box more so I ran my vocals out to the Stam SA-2A and a Warm EQ. (Pulteq) Guitar and Cajon front went to a pair of Alta Moda AM25 EQ's that I just picked up. I ended up liking the OTB mix much better and here's why.... It felt better and it was way more fun. This was not scientific and it is completely subjective. I did not match every setting and parameter paying close attention to gain structure. I turned knobs till it felt right. I also didn't over think or try to get the perfect mix. I added way more low end into the vocals and way more high end into the Cajon. Now I'm not saying these are final mixes or mixes that I would deliver to a client. I'm sure there are people out there that would prefer the ITB mixes. That wasn't the point. It was fun.
A couple of things, I'm really impressed with those Alta Moda EQ's I know people have had good and bad experiences with them but they were helpful to me. Oh well check it out.
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Post by javamad on Apr 13, 2017 0:42:20 GMT -6
Hi,
I fully agree on the OTB being more fun and it's why I am currently setting up a hybrid studio... outboard compressors, EQ, effects units to give different flavors and, more importantly, really connect with the music through knob tweaking :-)
I prefer the added weight of the OTB mix, though when jumping from one to the other I did feel that at around 1:55 there seemed to be less volume to the acoustic and I wanted to hear more :-)
I think to some degree there is no point in comparing ITB mixes with OTB mixes because the decisions you take when actually doing one or the other are different. Summing equipment, hardware EQ's and compressors are not magic boxes through which you can just run ITB stems through and they will automagically make your mix better. However, I have found that with mixing into my summing rig, I am getting better results faster and having more fun. That's good enough for me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2017 3:31:23 GMT -6
I note you both refer to otb as funer and realer  I have the same experience when I patch in my OB comps when mixing: its just different in a meaningful and good way. |
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Post by iamasound on Apr 13, 2017 11:26:29 GMT -6
Heck yea, nice performance from the youngun's! Listening with Sennheisser IE80 ear buds while walking the dog, I heard your OTB to be much more exciting, deeper and wider and much more pleasurable to listen to. Thanks for the post.
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 13, 2017 15:47:49 GMT -6
It shows that a great performance needs minor mixing moves.
Interesting would be if you can mangle the ITB mix to sound like the OTB and I bet you can.
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Post by forgotteng on Apr 13, 2017 16:13:00 GMT -6
It shows that a great performance needs minor mixing moves. Interesting would be if you can mangle the ITB mix to sound like the OTB and I bet you can. You're absolutely right. I believe I could get the ITB mix to sound similar but the point is how much faster and more satisfying it is to dial it in with hardware. |
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Post by mrholmes on Apr 13, 2017 16:18:57 GMT -6
It shows that a great performance needs minor mixing moves. Interesting would be if you can mangle the ITB mix to sound like the OTB and I bet you can. You're absolutely right. I believe I could get the ITB mix to sound similar but the point is how much faster and more satisfying it is to dial it in with hardware. I agree but there are more than one reason why I prefer to to work hybrid. BTW its intresting that the OTB Version is overall darker. If I listen to my OTB works they all tend to be darker too. Is hardware making the top end more flat by default?? |
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Post by forgotteng on Apr 13, 2017 16:34:38 GMT -6
BTW its intresting that the OTB Version is overall darker. If I listen to my OTB works they all tend to be darker too. Is hardware making the top end more flat by default?? No that was purely taste on my part. I added some weight in the 100hz region with a Warm Audio tube eq. I think hardware tends to be a little more 3 dimensional and real to me but you could simulate and "get close" ITB. |
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Post by formatcyes on Apr 13, 2017 16:43:13 GMT -6
What do you think of the Rode NTR? I have been eyeing this mic off for a while but havent pulled the trigger.
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Post by wiz on Apr 13, 2017 16:47:31 GMT -6
What do you think of the Rode NTR? I have been eyeing this mic off for a while but havent pulled the trigger. I have one...I use it each song... on guitar cabs and dobro/resonator etc great, quiet microphone thumbs up cheers Wiz |
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Post by swurveman on Apr 13, 2017 16:55:55 GMT -6
Your voice sound much warmer in the otb mix. Well done!
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Post by forgotteng on Apr 13, 2017 17:00:14 GMT -6
What do you think of the Rode NTR? I have been eyeing this mic off for a while but havent pulled the trigger. I really like the NTR. I used it today on a CFX Grand Piano about 4 feet off of the piano along with a pair of Avenson STO-2 omni mics up close. It was magical combined. https%3A//soundcloud.com/forgotteng/pianorode-ntr%3Fin%3Dforgotteng/sets/piano-exerpthttps%3A//soundcloud.com/forgotteng/pianoall%3Fin%3Dforgotteng/sets/piano-exerpt |
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Post by Quint on Apr 13, 2017 18:06:52 GMT -6
You're absolutely right. I believe I could get the ITB mix to sound similar but the point is how much faster and more satisfying it is to dial it in with hardware. I agree but there are more than one reason why I prefer to to work hybrid. BTW its intresting that the OTB Version is overall darker. If I listen to my OTB works they all tend to be darker too. Is hardware making the top end more flat by default?? I find the same thing about OTB or classic recordings in general that were done with all analog gear. One of my biggest issues with ITB has always been the "high end to infinity" sort of thing. OTB seems to naturally diminish and relax that in a nice way. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2017 18:26:15 GMT -6
"OTB seems to naturally diminish and relax that in a nice way."
Well said !!
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Post by rocinante on Apr 14, 2017 13:04:36 GMT -6
Okay so i use a console and hardware primarily with a daw controller and a few fx plugs but i threw in a mix yesterday i did itb nearly 8 years ago and damn if i wasnt impressed with myself. I did a good job with some limited gear. It sounded a lot better once it went through the console though. The song has tubas, accordion, guitars, bass, drums, midi drums, congas and vox and it feels like when there's a lot of instruments it makes it a lot easier to mix on a console.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:25:24 GMT -6
Enjoyed the guy's vox, great voice. Takamine sounds lush. I preferred the OTB mix, it seemed to have more depth. I don't understand why this is though, but consistent when I mess with my own stuff. The ITB mixes remind me of a spaghetti western set - all fascade and no depth  |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 14, 2017 14:02:14 GMT -6
I would take this ITB mix 10 times out of 10 over the OTB. Different strokes I guess.
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Post by forgotteng on Apr 14, 2017 14:48:42 GMT -6
I would take this ITB mix 10 times out of 10 over the OTB. Different strokes I guess. I knew their would eventually be one. |
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Post by wiz on Apr 14, 2017 16:08:22 GMT -6
I forgot to say...
I really liked it!
OTB for me...
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by forgotteng on Apr 14, 2017 16:29:09 GMT -6
I should clarify that normally my process would be start in the box so I can work fast. Then the next later would be to correct the deficiency of that mix by going out of the box usually after the client is gone. Then I would take a break from it listen at home Maybe and come back and fine tune/finish it. In this scenario I probably would have tweaked the low end down just a smidge and maybe boosted a little air in the top. But again the point was the immediacy and satisfaction of the hardware. There is something to be said about quick mixes where it's all feel and no over thinking but that's a whole other post.
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Post by rocinante on Apr 14, 2017 19:12:09 GMT -6
My daw templates (PT10 and Studioone) are busses through the console so its no work to set up. I default to whats intuitive and the daw mimics PT 10's mixer. Stereo bus out 1 and 2 are my drum bus which go through hardware bus compressors and eqs.
Track/channel three is often patched with a 1084 and an 1176 and its usually where guitars are sent. And so on and so forth. I use my daw controller faders using the console faders as a 'trim'. It takes maybe 2 minutes a session to set up. An electric guitar playing some death or doom through a 1084 and an 1176 (with some fab filter for touch up) makes me smile everytime. Minus some waveform editing theres hardly any work.
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Post by swurveman on Apr 14, 2017 19:21:37 GMT -6
My daw templates (PT10 and Studioone) are busses through the console so its no work to set up. I default to whats intuitive and the daw mimics PT 10's mixer. Stereo bus out 1 and 2 are my drum bus which go through hardware bus compressors and eqs. Track/channel three is often patched with a 1084 and an 1176 and its usually where guitars are sent. And so on and so forth. I use my daw controller faders using the console faders as a 'trim'. It takes maybe 2 minutes a session to set up. An electric guitar playing some death or doom through a 1084 and an 1176 (with some fab filter for touch up) makes me smile everytime. Minus some waveform editing theres hardly any work. What console do you use? |
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Post by rocinante on Apr 14, 2017 23:15:51 GMT -6
A semi-modded Ghost. So nothing spectacular but its got its points. Ah fuck it, i like it. Ive had it for awhile now and had wanted one for years before i got it.
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Post by formatcyes on Apr 15, 2017 15:19:55 GMT -6
What do you think of the Rode NTR? I have been eyeing this mic off for a while but havent pulled the trigger. I really like the NTR. I used it today on a CFX Grand Piano about 4 feet off of the piano along with a pair of Avenson STO-2 omni mics up close. It was magical combined. https%3A//soundcloud.com/forgotteng/pianorode-ntr%3Fin%3Dforgotteng/sets/piano-exerpthttps%3A//soundcloud.com/forgotteng/pianoall%3Fin%3Dforgotteng/sets/piano-exerpt Thank you for this will have a listen when I get back to my studio. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Apr 15, 2017 18:00:27 GMT -6
I didn't know daw's had deficiencies that need to be corrected? Can you please explain this or expound on your original thought please? Thanks 😀
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I have the same experience when I patch in my OB comps when mixing: its just different in a meaningful and good way.
