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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 7, 2017 12:36:10 GMT -6
I think Billy Pratt will build and sell VP28s for around $500 (or less) apiece...Those and a four channel rack would be the same as most of these (and I would venture to say better)... The Warm is $1k used for 4 channels, Focusrite is about $900/4 or $1600/8, Phoenix is about $2800/8. 4 channels of VP28 plus rack space is $2200 or so. Even the 26's would run $1800 or so. It's likely that I'll grab a pair of CAPI, but they're not quite the "value" pricing I'm hoping for to fill out the rig.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 7, 2017 13:03:29 GMT -6
I think you should really consider how much rack space each of these units is taking up too. I filled a 6 space rack for mobile gigs with the Audient ASP 800, and a 10 slot 500's rack. With my interface and simple patch panel this thing ended up weighing waay more than I was expecting. Its a pain in the ass to carry around. It does sound/work awesome though. However, if I could do it all again I'd probably consider going with smaller 4 channel - 1U pre's just for the weight and space savings.
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Post by ragan on Apr 7, 2017 13:34:56 GMT -6
This is a totally unhelpful comment but I really want a WA-412.
I liked my pair of WA12s and I suspect these are even better. Certainly the output attenuation is a big plus as the WA12s we're pretty hot little beasts.
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Post by swurveman on Apr 7, 2017 14:24:45 GMT -6
The Focusrite 428 Mark 1 is the best bang for the buck out there. But make sure it's a Mark 1 Are you talking about this: Focusrite ISA-428
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Post by Ward on Apr 8, 2017 0:00:17 GMT -6
The Focusrite 428 Mark 1 is the best bang for the buck out there. But make sure it's a Mark 1 Are you talking about this: Focusrite ISA-428Of course. But again, the Mark 1, when it was still made in England and had a real sound to it, pedigreed from the original 110s
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Post by hadaja on Apr 8, 2017 5:56:35 GMT -6
I sort of like my 8 channels of TL Audio PA-1's and PA-2's. Late 1990's English made but easy to get 4 x channels of that for under $1k.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 9, 2017 10:36:10 GMT -6
I think you should really consider how much rack space each of these units is taking up too. I filled a 6 space rack for mobile gigs with the Audient ASP 800, and a 10 slot 500's rack. With my interface and simple patch panel this thing ended up weighing waay more than I was expecting. Its a pain in the ass to carry around. It does sound/work awesome though. However, if I could do it all again I'd probably consider going with smaller 4 channel - 1U pre's just for the weight and space savings. This is a big consideration. Me and my back have come to the conclusion that a 6u shock rack filled with two Capi 500 racks and 22 units is at the limit of portability.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 9, 2017 10:56:27 GMT -6
I think you should really consider how much rack space each of these units is taking up too. I filled a 6 space rack for mobile gigs with the Audient ASP 800, and a 10 slot 500's rack. With my interface and simple patch panel this thing ended up weighing waay more than I was expecting. Its a pain in the ass to carry around. It does sound/work awesome though. However, if I could do it all again I'd probably consider going with smaller 4 channel - 1U pre's just for the weight and space savings. This is a big consideration. Me and my back have come to the conclusion that a 6u shock rack filled with two Capi 500 racks and 22 units is at the limit of portability. Ouch, that's brutal. Those shock mounted racks are no joke either...I'm sure that thing adds a tone of weight.
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Post by illacov on Apr 9, 2017 14:03:21 GMT -6
So does an Allen and Heath Z14 qualify as a multichannel microphone preamp? It has inserts on every channel including the master buss, plus EQ. $399 new, weighs very little, pretty damn quiet and if you add a Zulu to your rig (there's live sound guys doing it now with their digital boards and loving it), you can add all the color you want . Plus you can mix OTB with it. Thanks -L.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 9, 2017 15:09:49 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean by "fair priced". I have a couple of CRS-IND 4412 quad preamps that are great. They're made by a guy named Carl Johnson down in Ventura who also does some design work for A-Designs... I could be mistaken, but IIRC the pedigree goes back to Quad-Eight...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 9, 2017 15:26:19 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean by "fair priced". I have a couple of CRS-IND 4412 quad preamps that are great. They're made by a guy named Carl Johnson down in Ventura who also does some design work for A-Designs... I could be mistaken, but IIRC the pedigree goes back to Quad-Eight... Sub-400/channel type of fair and I generally only buy used so I don't take a loss when selling. I can't find any info or pricing for the one you mentioned.
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Post by nick8801 on Apr 9, 2017 17:19:01 GMT -6
I just picked up some DAV pres in 4 Channel sets and they rock. Sometimes clean is color, if that makes any sense!
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 9, 2017 17:40:38 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean by "fair priced". I have a couple of CRS-IND 4412 quad preamps that are great. They're made by a guy named Carl Johnson down in Ventura who also does some design work for A-Designs... I could be mistaken, but IIRC the pedigree goes back to Quad-Eight... Sub-400/channel type of fair and I generally only buy used so I don't take a loss when selling. I can't find any info or pricing for the one you mentioned. I'm not sure if it's currently in production - Carl's website has been down for a couple of months. IIRC the quoted price was a bit more than 2K for 4 channels but I'm not certain. I don't remember exactly what I paid for mine, but it was somewhat less than the price quoted on the website due to a personal connection through a mutual friend who played bass for me for years before I was forced to move. If you can find one that somebody's willing to get rid of I'd say that $400/channel used would be about right unless the seller was in a hurry. They're not very common - Carl's pretty well known in LA studio circles but not to the general public; he tends to be a bit reclusive and a bit, for lack of a better word, iconoclastic. Besides his work with A-Designs he also has some sort of connection to David Pearlman. The 4412 pres are based around an upgraded discrete op-amp that he designed for the Quad-Eight consoles.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 9, 2017 18:06:28 GMT -6
Sub-400/channel type of fair and I generally only buy used so I don't take a loss when selling. I can't find any info or pricing for the one you mentioned. I'm not sure if it's currently in production - Carl's website has been down for a couple of months. IIRC the quoted price was a bit more than 2K for 4 channels but I'm not certain. I don't remember exactly what I paid for mine, but it was somewhat less than the price quoted on the website due to a personal connection through a mutual friend who played bass for me for years before I was forced to move. If you can find one that somebody's willing to get rid of I'd say that $400/channel used would be about right unless the seller was in a hurry. They're not very common - Carl's pretty well known in LA studio circles but not to the general public; he tends to be a bit reclusive and a bit, for lack of a better word, iconoclastic. Besides his work with A-Designs he also has some sort of connection to David Pearlman. The 4412 pres are based around an upgraded discrete op-amp that he designed for the Quad-Eight consoles. John you might have broken the audio internet with your unicorn horn dusted unubtainium! I say well done!😎
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 9, 2017 18:07:30 GMT -6
So does an Allen and Heath Z14 qualify as a multichannel microphone preamp? It has inserts on every channel including the master buss, plus EQ. $399 new, weighs very little, pretty damn quiet and if you add a Zulu to your rig (there's live sound guys doing it now with their digital boards and loving it), you can add all the color you want . Plus you can mix OTB with it. Thanks -L. I'd need to add a half dozen lulu's to fill out the rig.
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Post by illacov on Apr 9, 2017 19:51:52 GMT -6
So does an Allen and Heath Z14 qualify as a multichannel microphone preamp? It has inserts on every channel including the master buss, plus EQ. $399 new, weighs very little, pretty damn quiet and if you add a Zulu to your rig (there's live sound guys doing it now with their digital boards and loving it), you can add all the color you want . Plus you can mix OTB with it. Thanks -L. I'd need to add a half dozen lulu's to fill out the rig. For the price you'd still be punching above your paygrade. I'd be good with just one or two to start. Kick snare bass and lead vocal carries a lot of weight. That's 14 channels of decent mic pres with EQ, 4 channels of Zulu for under 2K. Tracking, mixing and mastering covered PS what's a Lulu? Thanks -L.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 9, 2017 20:17:48 GMT -6
I'd need to add a half dozen lulu's to fill out the rig. For the price you'd still be punching above your paygrade. I'd be good with just one or two to start. Kick snare bass and lead vocal carries a lot of weight. That's 14 channels of decent mic pres with EQ, 4 channels of Zulu for under 2K. Tracking, mixing and mastering covered PS what's a Lulu? Thanks -L. Haha, autocorrect, obvs. I mentioned in a post here that I've already got pairs of BAE, Sound Skulptor, Phoenix, Tonelux, and a quad of Nightpro. I also have a Midas board and stacks of outboard in my room, but not enough preamps to cover a band if I want to travel for a remote. I mainly grabbed this Motu 24ai interface for futureproofing my studio setup a bit and for tracking at my club, but if I can pull together another handful of preamps, I could do more remote stuff. It would probably make the most sense to grab another used console with a road case and just keep it boxed up and ready to travel. Then I'd have preamps, eq, and monitor mixes at my fingertips, but it would take up a bunch of space in my house and sit idle more than I like.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 9, 2017 21:09:21 GMT -6
So does an Allen and Heath Z14 qualify as a multichannel microphone preamp? It has inserts on every channel including the master buss, plus EQ. $399 new, weighs very little, pretty damn quiet and if you add a Zulu to your rig (there's live sound guys doing it now with their digital boards and loving it), you can add all the color you want . Plus you can mix OTB with it. Thanks -L. I'd need to add a half dozen lulu's to fill out the rig. Not unobtainium. I have his number. Pete has his number. Dave has his number. Just difficult to obtanium. Much easier than, e.g. an original U47...
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 9, 2017 21:24:27 GMT -6
I mentioned in a post here that I've already got pairs of BAE, Sound Skulptor, Phoenix, Tonelux, and a quad of Nightpro. I also have a Midas board and stacks of outboard in my room, but not enough preamps to cover a band if I want to travel for a remote. I mainly grabbed this Motu 24ai interface for futureproofing my studio setup a bit and for tracking at my club, but if I can pull together another handful of preamps, I could do more remote stuff. I really do not understand this. 99.9999% of all the greatest rercords in history have been made using ONE KIND of mic preamp. Maybe a couple if it turned out to be necessary to move the session to a deifferent studio for some reason. A great mic pre should work well on anything, and helps create a (for lack of a better word) "unified" or "gelled" sound for the disk. What's with all this BS about different mic pres for different things? WHY? How many of the really great records were made that way? I think it's just the result of reading too many gear mags written by pundits who are paid out of advertising accounts.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 9, 2017 21:25:50 GMT -6
I'd need to add a half dozen lulu's to fill out the rig. Not unobtainium. I have his number. Pete has his number. Dave has his number. Just difficult to obtanium. Much easier than, e.g. an original U47... Picture in your mind all the recording school students googling them and finding nothing ! They must be the second coming, the true secret sauce, sonic nirvana because I the worlds next great producer engineer can't find anything nor can my twitter buds!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 9, 2017 21:34:48 GMT -6
I mentioned in a post here that I've already got pairs of BAE, Sound Skulptor, Phoenix, Tonelux, and a quad of Nightpro. I also have a Midas board and stacks of outboard in my room, but not enough preamps to cover a band if I want to travel for a remote. I mainly grabbed this Motu 24ai interface for futureproofing my studio setup a bit and for tracking at my club, but if I can pull together another handful of preamps, I could do more remote stuff. I really do not understand this. 99.9999% of all the greatest rercords in history have been made using ONE KIND of mic preamp. Maybe a couple if it turned out to be necessary to move the session to a deifferent studio for some reason. A great mic pre should work well on anything, and helps create a (for lack of a better word) "unified" or "gelled" sound for the disk. What's with all this BS about different mic pres for different things? WHY? How many of the really great records were made that way? I think it's just the result of reading too many gear mags written by pundits who are paid out of advertising accounts. What's not to get? Are the CRS-IND 4412 preamps the only ones that you own? I generally buy good quality preamps when I find a deal that I can't pass up. Since I owned the Nightpro preamps before all the others, I should have went out and grabbed another 8 channels of those? Nah. I don't own the different preamps because of magazine ads like you're implying. The condescending attitude is still overbearing.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 9, 2017 21:37:01 GMT -6
I mentioned in a post here that I've already got pairs of BAE, Sound Skulptor, Phoenix, Tonelux, and a quad of Nightpro. I also have a Midas board and stacks of outboard in my room, but not enough preamps to cover a band if I want to travel for a remote. I mainly grabbed this Motu 24ai interface for futureproofing my studio setup a bit and for tracking at my club, but if I can pull together another handful of preamps, I could do more remote stuff. I really do not understand this. 99.9999% of all the greatest rercords in history have been made using ONE KIND of mic preamp. Maybe a couple if it turned out to be necessary to move the session to a deifferent studio for some reason. A great mic pre should work well on anything, and helps create a (for lack of a better word) "unified" or "gelled" sound for the disk. What's with all this BS about different mic pres for different things? WHY? How many of the really great records were made that way? I think it's just the result of reading too many gear mags written by pundits who are paid out of advertising accounts. Very true ! I could die happy with my 8 ch of Dan Alexander's 1272 remakes with real vintage iron. The reason I have 8 ch is I got tired of walking in to "studios" with 12 ch of pre, 2 would be the same if your lucky! But I still miss my old CAPI's and need something uhber clean! Could we blame it on drum samples? The normal "kit" being an assembly of great sounds with no gel or anything else in common? Could it be we are old and remember you make music in a room and and things do gel in the real world? Could it be guys simply looking for the best tone for every piece with no knowledge of the fact that it's not just about great tones but great tones that fit together?
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 9, 2017 22:11:54 GMT -6
I really do not understand this. 99.9999% of all the greatest rercords in history have been made using ONE KIND of mic preamp. Maybe a couple if it turned out to be necessary to move the session to a deifferent studio for some reason. A great mic pre should work well on anything, and helps create a (for lack of a better word) "unified" or "gelled" sound for the disk. What's with all this BS about different mic pres for different things? WHY? How many of the really great records were made that way? I think it's just the result of reading too many gear mags written by pundits who are paid out of advertising accounts. What's not to get? Are the CRS-IND 4412 preamps the only ones that you own? I generally buy good quality preamps when I find a deal that I can't pass up. Since I owned the Nightpro preamps before all the others, I should have went out and grabbed another 8 channels of those? Nah. I don't own the different preamps because of magazine ads like you're implying. The condescending attitude is still overbearing. I've got 32 preamps in my Soundcraft console but I hardly use them anymore. Got pres in my Midas console but I don't record with them. We pretty much do all the tracking through the 4412s. Why not? The only reason I can think of to use a different pre would be if what I had available was inferior. That's why I got the 4412s to use instead of the IC based Soundcrap pres. Carl came by, loaned me one for a couple of months, I was convinced it was better than what I had, bought it. When I could afford a second, I bought that too, which gives me enough channels for most basic tracking sessions that we do. Condescending? I don't think I'm "condescending". I certainly don't intend to be. However I see lots of people using different this and different that and then jumping through hoops with long processing chains trying to get things to "gel". Why not simply go back to the way things were done when all those great records were made? If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Needless complication is just a big pain in the tuchus. The simplest way is nearly always the best way. I don't think thats "condescension", I think that's common sense. What I REALLY want is an API console, but I can't afford one. If I won the lottery and bought an API, I'd likely be willing to sell the 4412s. As far as "generally buying good quality preamps when I find a deal that I can't pass up", well, I guess I can understand that, kinda, but I generally reserve that money for microphones and outboard*. Those seem a lot more important to me. I'd love to be able to get an EMT plate or a Bricasti or a couple of original LA2As or a second Spectra-Sonics 610 or one or two more KM84s or a U67, or a U47 to replace the one that was stolen from me 30 years ago or, oh, a LOT of things before I'd want a bunch of different mic preamps... * - I absolutely do not understand when I see ads for "professional" studios that have a whole pile of various mic pres and a mic list half the size of what I have in my little home studio. And their only kick mic is a godawful D112. Or (even worse) a Beta 52. It's utterly baffling. What's the point of having a zillion mic pres if your mics are garbage? (Not that I'm saying anyones mics here are garbage, I'm just commenting on the "pile of different preamps" phenomenon.)
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Post by ragan on Apr 9, 2017 22:18:14 GMT -6
What's not to get? Are the CRS-IND 4412 preamps the only ones that you own? I generally buy good quality preamps when I find a deal that I can't pass up. Since I owned the Nightpro preamps before all the others, I should have went out and grabbed another 8 channels of those? Nah. I don't own the different preamps because of magazine ads like you're implying. The condescending attitude is still overbearing. I've got 32 preamps in my Soundcraft console but I hardly use them anymore. Got pres in my Midas console but I don't record with them. We pretty much do all the tracking through the 4412s. Why not? The only reason I can think of to use a different pre would be if what I had available was inferior. That's why I got the 4412s to use instead of the IC based Soundcrap pres. Carl came by, loaned me one for a couple of months, I was convinced it was better than what I had, bought it. When I could afford a second, I bought that too, which gives me enough channels for most basic tracking sessions that we do. Condescending? I don't think I'm "condescending". I certainly don't intend to be. However I see lots of people using different this and different that and then jumping through hoops with long processing chains trying to get things to "gel". Why not simply go back to the way things were done when all those great records were made? If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Needless complication is just a big pain in the tuchus. The simplest way is nearly always the best way. I don't thing thats "condescention" I think that's common sense. What I REALLY want is an API console, but I can't afford one. If I won the lotterey and bought an API, I'd likely be willing to sell the 4412s. But he's not talking about trying to find some particular flavor of fad-y pre. Jesse needs more pres and so he's evaluating what's out there within his budget. You responded with comments about "all this BS about different mic pres". Regular old suggestion/advice is what's warranted, not a rant about some perceived Issue With Modern Engineers that doesn't have anything to do with his question.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 9, 2017 22:44:21 GMT -6
Could it be we are old and remember you make music in a room and and things do gel in the real world? Could it be guys simply looking for the best tone for every piece with no knowledge of the fact that it's not just about great tones but great tones that fit together?* YES! THIS! Too many people get preoccupied with "playing with gear". At least people here are relatively rational about it, unlike the monkeys at The Purple Place... * - The solo button is NOT your friend!
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