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Post by swurveman on Mar 20, 2017 18:05:36 GMT -6
I just heard a drum recording that used two AEA R84's as overheads and it sounded great. I own a Royer R121 and am wondering what the differences in sound between the R121 and R84 are and if I'd be better off getting another R121 or buying a pair of AEA R84's. My biggest concern with my R121 for drum overheads is the lack of low mids.
Any thoughts from anybody who owns both mics would be much appreciated.
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Post by Ward on Mar 21, 2017 5:41:54 GMT -6
That lack of low mids, as in the lack of mud? I can't see how this would pose a problem... even though personally, I've never experienced this as David's design is one of the best balanced ribbons ever.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 21, 2017 8:29:47 GMT -6
If you put a Coles 4038 all the way to the "charm" side of the spectrum, and the 121 to the "clean" side, I would say the R84 lies right in the middle.
Slight exaggeration, but gets the point across a bit.
Love the 121 on guitars. I look elsewhere for my OH duties when time calls for a ribbon.
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Post by svart on Mar 21, 2017 8:38:26 GMT -6
I tried multiple ribbons on stuff before I settled on the R121. I'd say that they are all shades of the same smooth sound, but agree with jeremy, that the R121 is probably the cleanest/brightest and coles being the darkest.
But that's saying a lot since I consider the R121 too dark for cymbals, so something like the Coles is just far, far, too dark for cymbals for me.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 21, 2017 8:46:38 GMT -6
And I generally live with Beyerdynamic M160/M130 as OH.
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Post by Ward on Mar 21, 2017 10:48:14 GMT -6
SNIP... I consider the R121 too dark for cymbals, so something like the Coles is just far, far, too dark for cymbals for me. Then try the Samar VL37 pair!! nothing dark about those. |
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Post by svart on Mar 21, 2017 10:59:29 GMT -6
SNIP... I consider the R121 too dark for cymbals, so something like the Coles is just far, far, too dark for cymbals for me. Then try the Samar VL37 pair!! nothing dark about those. If you'll remember, I'm the one who did the VL37 vs. R121 comparison thread.. The VL37 had a little more scooped mid and lower output level. The scooped mid made the mic seem more hi-fi, but if I do a mid cut on the R121, I can approximate the VL37 sound pretty well. |
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Post by Guitar on Mar 21, 2017 13:18:51 GMT -6
You could also mod some Apex 205. I hear the chinese ribbon motor is a copy or inspired by the R84. Not sure if you need a cheaper option or not. These are really cool mics, drbill has some I wonder if he's tried them on overheads. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 21, 2017 13:59:31 GMT -6
You could also mod some Apex 205. I hear the chinese ribbon motor is a copy or inspired by the R84. Not sure if you need a cheaper option or not. These are really cool mics, drbill has some I wonder if he's tried them on overheads. I have, but I generally don't like Ribbons on OH mics as I'm looking for a brighter sound in the rooms I frequent. Love them elsewhere though. The MJoly modded 205's are killer out in front of the kit or as room mics. Also, my #1 go to for piano over any vintage mics I have. They make everything "larger than life" while sounding completely natural and more "open" than what you'd expect out of a ribbon.. I've never heard that they were copies or inspired by R84's though. To me they sound nothing like R84's. They are bigger sounding, and way, way more open on the top, while having huge LF extension. if you want darker, the R84's are the way to go. If you want to hear them on OH's compared to the usual suspects - both expensive and cheap : AKG C414B-ULS, Gefell M71S, Cascade X-15, Neumann KM84, AKG C451E/CK1, Gefell 692/M70, Neumann U87, Cascade Fathead II, MXL V69ME, M-Audio Sputnik, GrooveTubes AM62 : - just google : Drum Mic Madness!!!! You find all the clips. And there's also clips on virtually every drum, and tons of mic options. This shootout took a week or so.... I've used the MJ205's on a tiny Soprano Ukulele and had it sound as big as an acoustic guitar. Recently won out over my RCA77 on Violin. The MJ205's are desert island ribbons for me. And at the price, a complete no-brainer. Stock, you're rolling the dice. Some can sound "OK" and others just horrible. It seems there's little QC on ribbons coming out of China in the "generic" brands. |
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Post by Guitar on Mar 21, 2017 14:28:05 GMT -6
drbill thanks for the info!! I feel like the world needs a lot more information like this about ribbon mics, at this point, as they continue to gain favor.
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gavg
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Post by gavg on Mar 21, 2017 18:22:29 GMT -6
My experience of 121's is that they are quite pronounced in the low mids. The R84 feels much more 'full range' to me.
The beauty of 4038 to me is that while the top end is fairly muted in it's natural state, the mic eats up eq like very few others. The tops are all there to be had with a judicious boost on a quality eq. Smooth as silk - provided you have a preamp that is not too noisy. The Coles can shimmer with the best of them - Dark Side of the Moon overheads for gods sake!!!
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Post by Ward on Mar 22, 2017 6:38:17 GMT -6
My experience of 121's is that they are quite pronounced in the low mids. The R84 feels much more 'full range' to me. The beauty of 4038 to me is that while the top end is fairly muted in it's natural state, the mic eats up eq like very few others. The tops are all there to be had with a judicious boost on a quality eq. Smooth as silk - provided you have a preamp that is not too noisy. The Coles can shimmer with the best of them - Dark Side of the Moon overheads for gods sake!!! Do you use your own R121s or some one (some studio) else's? |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 22, 2017 9:15:19 GMT -6
If you are going to use Royer(s) as overheads, you'd be better served with either 2 x 101's or a stereo SF-12, / SF-24
If you are of the thought that the overhead mics should pick up the entire kit, full bandwidth , as opposed to just high end sizzle from the cymbals then
a Royer SF-12 as a overhead mic is a thing of beauty.
I've used one in this position since it was released.
And immediately purchase another for room mic'ing.
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gavg
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Post by gavg on Apr 1, 2017 19:29:15 GMT -6
My experience of 121's is that they are quite pronounced in the low mids. The R84 feels much more 'full range' to me. The beauty of 4038 to me is that while the top end is fairly muted in it's natural state, the mic eats up eq like very few others. The tops are all there to be had with a judicious boost on a quality eq. Smooth as silk - provided you have a preamp that is not too noisy. The Coles can shimmer with the best of them - Dark Side of the Moon overheads for gods sake!!! Do you use your own R121s or some one (some studio) else's? |
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gavg
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Post by gavg on Apr 1, 2017 19:29:52 GMT -6
Actually, I have one I'm selling at the moment if you're interested!
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Post by adamjbrass on Apr 3, 2017 11:15:27 GMT -6
much prefer the R-84. The 121 has something going on in the mid range that I don't like. Works great to make a greenback kick you in the teeth tho,
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Post by joseph on Apr 3, 2017 14:19:25 GMT -6
R84 has serious thump. Works well as mono OH.
Actually i've used it on kick drum a few times, for slow tempo heavy stuff.
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Post by Ward on Apr 4, 2017 21:19:51 GMT -6
Then try the Samar VL37 pair!! nothing dark about those. If you'll remember, I'm the one who did the VL37 vs. R121 comparison thread.. The VL37 had a little more scooped mid and lower output level. The scooped mid made the mic seem more hi-fi, but if I do a mid cut on the R121, I can approximate the VL37 sound pretty well. I need to hear this, please. I don't doubt you, but I really need to hear this. Can you bring up a recording of the source with both a R121 and a VL37 at the same time, work your magic on the 121 and then show both files as a comparison please, pretty please? If you can make the R121 sound like a VL37, then it stands to reason that a VL37 (at 65% of the price) can also be made to sound like an R121. *it should also be noted that the VL37 sounds identical on both sides, unlike the R121. |
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Post by topshelfmg on Apr 5, 2017 1:44:55 GMT -6
I would say between the two, I would lean towards the R84. Strictly for overhead duty though, in the ribbon microphone department I would take a pair of AEA N22s. Everything you love about a ribbon, with a little more top end response which will beautifully capture your cymbals and everything else, and keep a fair amount of clarity, but still smooth things out since it is after all a ribbon mic. I would say it is the best of both worlds.
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Post by svart on Apr 5, 2017 7:37:44 GMT -6
If you'll remember, I'm the one who did the VL37 vs. R121 comparison thread.. The VL37 had a little more scooped mid and lower output level. The scooped mid made the mic seem more hi-fi, but if I do a mid cut on the R121, I can approximate the VL37 sound pretty well. I need to hear this, please. I don't doubt you, but I really need to hear this. Can you bring up a recording of the source with both a R121 and a VL37 at the same time, work your magic on the 121 and then show both files as a comparison please, pretty please? If you can make the R121 sound like a VL37, then it stands to reason that a VL37 (at 65% of the price) can also be made to sound like an R121. *it should also be noted that the VL37 sounds identical on both sides, unlike the R121.Let me see if I still host the files. I know that I deleted the original files off the studio computer some time ago. I personally LIKE the way that the R121 has different sides though, sometimes I want darker, sometimes I want brighter. I do think that the *difference* between the sides is somewhat overstated though, as it's very subtle. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 5, 2017 9:06:13 GMT -6
svart the difference between the two sides of an R121 can be compared to a tube guitar amp's presence control. It's like, on the dark side the presence is set to 2. On the bright side, the presence it set to 6
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Post by EmRR on Apr 5, 2017 9:57:21 GMT -6
svart never got an undamaged VL37 did he?
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Post by svart on Apr 5, 2017 11:28:03 GMT -6
svart never got an undamaged VL37 did he? I did not get another VL37 for testing. After Samar hastily requested returning the first mic after the initial poll responses, I followed up with an email about a second mic to test out and got a "we'll see" kind of response. A few weeks later a second email went unanswered. |
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Post by markfouxman on Apr 5, 2017 13:51:26 GMT -6
svart never got an undamaged VL37 did he? I did not get another VL37 for testing. After Samar hastily requested returning the first mic after the initial poll responses, I followed up with an email about a second mic to test out and got a "we'll see" kind of response. A few weeks later a second email went unanswered. The microphone was damaged in shipping. We posted pictures of its sagged ribbon, which was almost out the gap. We also posted the picture of the good installed ribbon the way it leaves the factory. In other words, the unit you had did not perform as it should. I made a search (including spam box) and could not find any unanswered emails from you. The very last we have is from Dec. 18 2015, where you asked about the price for active version. We responded the same day with the numbers. I am sorry if you sent any other email and it did not reach us. I already posted on this forum that about the same time we started transition for selling our microphones through the dealers and all the 5 demo units we had went to them (and still circulating). Also, I offered to send you our VL37A--an active version, but you told you were not interested. Hope it makes things more clear. Best, M |
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